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Advice please!


RyukinFan

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When do you start to feed the fry?

They are ready to eat when they are no longer stationary. So, 2-3 days after hatching.

How do you seperate and then feed brine shrimp?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Right now they are a bit too young for that :)

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When do you start to feed the fry?

They are ready to eat when they are no longer stationary. So, 2-3 days after hatching.

How do you seperate and then feed brine shrimp?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Right now they are a bit too young for that :)

Thanks Alex.

At the moment a few fry are coming up to the surface, others are clinging on to the side of the tub, others are lying on the bottom. So at what stage is this? Should I begin cultivating the artemia?

With regards as to how to seperate the brine shrimp, I mean should I get the brine shrimp out of their water and in with the fry?

Thanks for your help.

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Hello and congrats!

Not sure where you are with your little guys but I started feeding my fry at day 3 (after hatching) prior to that the fry didn't show too much interest in the food, and you'll end up just doing a water change. I'm not sure what you mean by "seperate and then feed brine shrimp". It's fairly easy to start your own brine shrimp culture, and feeding is simple. Check youtube for videos. If you're keeping the fry at warmer temps you can feed them up to 6 times a day, every 3-4 hours, making sure to remove any food they haven't eaten after a couple hours to help maintain water quality.

You can also feed your fry cooked egg yolk. Hard boil and egg, remove the yolk and mash the heck out of it, and add a little water from their aquarium to make it runny. a couple of drops of this egg mash feeds all 25 of my fry, but it's awfully messy.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/FryFood.html

This is a link to the Koko's main page and has more in depth information about fry food. Good luck! =)

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How many days after hatching has it been, RyuFan? If they are still at the clingy stage, then they are still eating off the contents of their amniotic sac. I'm guessing they will be ready to eat tomorrow at the earliest :)

I don't think they are ready for brine shrimp just yet. Probably in a couple of weeks.

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Also, he's a link to an excellent DIY hatchery (I personally use this method). Brine shrimp can hatch in as little as 18 hours, or take as long as 48 hours to hatch. Mine hatch in about 26 hours, kept at room temp with just a desk lamp for heat. I would hold off starting your culture for another day. The climbing fry still have egg sacs that they are absorbing for nutrients and wont be intersted in food, and brine shrimp cultures arent good for long, unless you plan on feeding the brine shrimp food and keeping them alive, at which point they loose much of their nutritional value and become too large for the fry.

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Thanks for the help you two, I first noticed that the fry had hatched almost 2 days ago, and yes it looks as though they are still consuming their egg sacs. The thing that confused my was a couple had begun swimming up to the surface a few times.

Alex why would they not be ready for brine shrimp until a few weeks? If they are too large what should I be feeding them once they are free swimming. I have not been successful in finding anywhere local that sells hikari first bites, would it be necessary for me to order them online?

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as soon as the fry show interest in eating (day 3-5) they can eat brine shrimp. I'm confused by that statement as well, unless s/he is thinking of frozen brine shrimp, which WOULD be too big. Brine shrimp are one of the best fry foods out there imo.

I waited until all of my guys had stopped bottom sitting and wall clinging before I started feeding, only because cleaning their tank when they're that tiny is NERVE WRACKING. Using an airline tube and starting a suction is the easiest way IMO, but it takes time and patience.

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Thanks, I'll wait and see what Alex says too. Any waste or infertile eggs I am currently removing, I am doing by trapping the air in an air tube and then releasing my thumb from the end of the tube which sucks up the waste. Seems like its pretty slow work though!

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Sorry for the confusion. :)

The brine shrimp that you had should be fine for the fry. If you can't find first bites, you could also crush up pellets into a fine powder and feed them that.

The most important thing is to keep your water quality in check. Ammonia, nitrites, and even nitrates in excess at this stage can be very damaging to fry.

Be sure to post pics, so that you can get a breeding medal awarded :)

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Sorry for the confusion. :)

The brine shrimp that you had should be fine for the fry. If you can't find first bites, you could also crush up pellets into a fine powder and feed them that.

The most important thing is to keep your water quality in check. Ammonia, nitrites, and even nitrates in excess at this stage can be very damaging to fry.

Be sure to post pics, so that you can get a breeding medal awarded :)

Not a problem thank you for your help! And Okori of course.

If water quality should get bad, can I do a water change so long as I do not add a current to the water. And should this water be from my main tank?

Also, could I put a home made sponge filter in there. I have used an inch wide undergravel filter tube with holes in the side and put this through some carbon foam. Then I'd stick an airstone in through the top and keep it on a low level.

As it would have a long tube taking the bubbles to the top of the water, would it mean that I could do it without harming the fry?

Thanks again.

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I've got a homemade sponge filter in with my fry (almost 3 weeks old) and I've noticed a HUGE change in the water quality. I've got the bubbles down fairly low, as the little guys aren't too fond of it yet, but with a t-valve you can adjust the flow of bubbles and build it up as they get stronger. I didn't put the filter in until a few days ago, but im sure you could add it earlier, or as you said send the bubbles to the surface. Good luck! How many fry do you have?

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What level is your water at? I would make sure that it is 4 inches max. They can't handle the water pressure at this stage. I wouldn't add a sponge filter just yet. But you can make a homemade sponge filter. You can take a regular sponge, cut a hole into it, add an airstone to the hole and silicon a weight to the sponge. It is super quick and easy.

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I've got a homemade sponge filter in with my fry (almost 3 weeks old) and I've noticed a HUGE change in the water quality. I've got the bubbles down fairly low, as the little guys aren't too fond of it yet, but with a t-valve you can adjust the flow of bubbles and build it up as they get stronger. I didn't put the filter in until a few days ago, but im sure you could add it earlier, or as you said send the bubbles to the surface. Good luck! How many fry do you have?

Thanks for the imput. I'm not sure on the fry count, I've had what looks like at least 20 ryukin/moor hatch so far. It's hard to tell as I have a massive mess of elodea in there with them from so I don't know whats under that! And I still have comets eggs that are about to hatch in there too!

What level is your water at? I would make sure that it is 4 inches max. They can't handle the water pressure at this stage. I wouldn't add a sponge filter just yet. But you can make a homemade sponge filter. You can take a regular sponge, cut a hole into it, add an airstone to the hole and silicon a weight to the sponge. It is super quick and easy.

I'd say its about 6 inches deep, the fish seem to stay near the top, whether it be on the sides or on plants. I'm not sure but would this mean that they wouldn't be under as much pressure this way?

I'll have a go at making the sponge filter, and post a photo of it! We'll see how that goes.

Thanks again.

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Congrats on all the fry! You're gonna have your hands full in the best way =3

IMO I would take the level down a bit, but I've read often that goldfish fry do best in depths of 4-6'' of water.

I took my water level down to about 3 inches in the first few days when they were clinging, only because I had a hard time watching the fry trying so hard to spiral their way up to the surface only to fail and sink miserably back to the bottom of the tank =/ After they were free swimming /eating, i slowly started raising the water level. At 3 weeks old i've got them at about 6-7 inches of water, but they swim like champs, and i plan on slowly raising it over the next few days until the tank they're in is full so next week I can move them into their grow out tank.

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Congrats on all the fry! You're gonna have your hands full in the best way =3

IMO I would take the level down a bit, but I've read often that goldfish fry do best in depths of 4-6'' of water.

I took my water level down to about 3 inches in the first few days when they were clinging, only because I had a hard time watching the fry trying so hard to spiral their way up to the surface only to fail and sink miserably back to the bottom of the tank =/ After they were free swimming /eating, i slowly started raising the water level. At 3 weeks old i've got them at about 6-7 inches of water, but they swim like champs, and i plan on slowly raising it over the next few days until the tank they're in is full so next week I can move them into their grow out tank.

Congratulations on your success so far! Good luck with keeping it going.

Why is it that the water needs to be lowered? It wouldn't be 4 inches in a pond?

There is a couple of reasons why I'm slightly hesitant to lower the water. The first is that the fish are right up on the edge of the water at the top of the sides, so if I take water out, I'm scared they might get stuck to the side and come out the water. Another is its not the biggest tub so I don't want the water to spoil.

I've seen a breeder on youtube, called 'huntawunta' I think, who has his/her fish in tanks full of water from a young age, I'm not saying its right but he/she is a really successful breeder.

Regardless of this I will look to lower the water level, it's currently at 6.25 inches.

Thanks again.

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Congratulations on your fry. The fun part has just started. Yes, I would say so at this stage for the water level to be low (4-6 inch) so as not to exert pressure on their swim bladder and suppress their grow. Although some people prefer keep them in deep water. (I don't know the reason)

My reason is because for the first month it is their most important growth period and you should try to raise them as good as you can. This is the building block period.The so called black-baby stage is a very critical stage because the foundations for resilience to diseases, future development of head wen and body structure, etc are established during this stage. After they changed colour, it may be too late to reinforce. So feed them live food like brine shrimp, daphnia etc... as much as they can eat daily and maintain very good water parameters. Daily 100% w/c is preferred + 0.1% salt.

It's better to raise them in a smaller container at this stage with just an air stone rather than to use a filter. You'll have lesser problem with disease or flukes. Maintain 0.1% salt will also help to keep them at bay and keep your live brine shrimp alive longer. You'll see them grow rapidly from the 3rd weeks onwards. Don't feed pallets b4 the month is up.

Good luck.

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Congratulations on your fry. The fun part has just started. Yes, I would say so at this stage for the water level to be low (4-6 inch) so as not to exert pressure on their swim bladder and suppress their grow. Although some people prefer keep them in deep water. (I don't know the reason)

My reason is because for the first month it is their most important growth period and you should try to raise them as good as you can. This is the building block period.The so called black-baby stage is a very critical stage because the foundations for resilience to diseases, future development of head wen and body structure, etc are established during this stage. After they changed colour, it may be too late to reinforce. So feed them live food like brine shrimp, daphnia etc... as much as they can eat daily and maintain very good water parameters. Daily 100% w/c is preferred + 0.1% salt.

It's better to raise them in a smaller container at this stage with just an air stone rather than to use a filter. You'll have lesser problem with disease or flukes. Maintain 0.1% salt will also help to keep them at bay and keep your live brine shrimp alive longer. You'll see them grow rapidly from the 3rd weeks onwards. Don't feed pallets b4 the month is up.

Good luck.

Ahh ok that makes more sense, thank you.

Something that I haven't been told and it doesn't say on the bottle, is that with brine shrimp, how much should I be putting in 750ml of water? And after they've hatched in the short period, how long until they are too big for the fry to eat?

Also do you know how I should be doing the water changes so as not to hurt the fry?

At 3 days old will the fry require an airstone?

Thanks for your advice!

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Ahh ok that makes more sense, thank you.

Something that I haven't been told and it doesn't say on the bottle, is that with brine shrimp, how much should I be putting in 750ml of water? And after they've hatched in the short period, how long until they are too big for the fry to eat?

Also do you know how I should be doing the water changes so as not to hurt the fry?

At 3 days old will the fry require an airstone?

Thanks for your advice!

How to hatch Brine Shrimp correctly.

Use 25g to 35g of salt per liter and add 1tsp of brine shrimp eggs per liter or amount of eggs according to your fry requirement. Use tap water and pour salt into the cone with air pump running. When using kitchen salt, it is best is to add 1 teaspoon of sodium-bicarbonate (backing soda). Make sure the water temperature is maintained between 26° - 29° during the incubation period. (Do not exceed 30°C, as improper temperature control is the main reason for a bad hatch). The air line should reach to the bottom of the hatching vessel to ensure vigorous and homogenous mixing. An air stone is not recommended. Add the eggs to the hatching water and make sure air keeps eggs in suspension. Eggs will hatch into very tiny, nearly microscopic “Nauplii” (babies) in 18 to 30 hours. You can harvest by removing the air tube and waiting two to five minutes for the orange nauplii to come to the bottom of the cone. After 24 hours stop aeration and wait 10 minutes until nauplii settle to the bottom. Empty shells will float at the surface. Siphon the nauplii on a sieve and feed to your fry. Hatched bs can only stay alive for a few hours.

There are plenty of examples on YouTube too.

Ans to Q2...introduce cut fbw from 3 weeks onwards and reduce bs (there may be some smaller fry that still require bs and when all are large enough to eat fbw then stop all together.

Q3...use an air pump tube or a tube larger than that to siphon out the solids, then fit an air stone to the tube and just let the water drain. (while you take a nap).

Q4... can use an air stone but set it very low but do not submerge it all the way to the bottom of your container, just hang it slightly under water. You just need to aerate the surface but not to stir the poop. Once you find that it's not possible to maintain good water conditions after 100% w/cs then it's time to put in a sponge filter. Also you'll need to squeeze out the dirt every 2 days. This sponge filter is not so much for bio filtration but to help keep your water clear. Keep salt @0.1% at all times.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

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Ahh ok that makes more sense, thank you.

Something that I haven't been told and it doesn't say on the bottle, is that with brine shrimp, how much should I be putting in 750ml of water? And after they've hatched in the short period, how long until they are too big for the fry to eat?

Also do you know how I should be doing the water changes so as not to hurt the fry?

At 3 days old will the fry require an airstone?

Thanks for your advice!

How to hatch Brine Shrimp correctly.

Use 25g to 35g of salt per liter and add 1tsp of brine shrimp eggs per liter or amount of eggs according to your fry requirement. Use tap water and pour salt into the cone with air pump running. When using kitchen salt, it is best is to add 1 teaspoon of sodium-bicarbonate (backing soda). Make sure the water temperature is maintained between 26° - 29° during the incubation period. (Do not exceed 30°C, as improper temperature control is the main reason for a bad hatch). The air line should reach to the bottom of the hatching vessel to ensure vigorous and homogenous mixing. An air stone is not recommended. Add the eggs to the hatching water and make sure air keeps eggs in suspension. Eggs will hatch into very tiny, nearly microscopic “Nauplii” (babies) in 18 to 30 hours. You can harvest by removing the air tube and waiting two to five minutes for the orange nauplii to come to the bottom of the cone. After 24 hours stop aeration and wait 10 minutes until nauplii settle to the bottom. Empty shells will float at the surface. Siphon the nauplii on a sieve and feed to your fry. Hatched bs can only stay alive for a few hours.

There are plenty of examples on YouTube too.

Ans to Q2...introduce cut fbw from 3 weeks onwards and reduce bs (there may be some smaller fry that still require bs and when all are large enough to eat fbw then stop all together.

Q3...use an air pump tube or a tube larger than that to siphon out the solids, then fit an air stone to the tube and just let the water drain. (while you take a nap).

Q4... can use an air stone but set it very low but do not submerge it all the way to the bottom of your container, just hang it slightly under water. You just need to aerate the surface but not to stir the poop. Once you find that it's not possible to maintain good water conditions after 100% w/cs then it's time to put in a sponge filter. Also you'll need to squeeze out the dirt every 2 days. This sponge filter is not so much for bio filtration but to help keep your water clear. Keep salt @0.1% at all times.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

Brilliant, thank you for that. That was very helpful.

Currently, the fry are more and more active, but are still mainly sitting on the sides with a few swimming a little further along the walls occasionally, should I wait until they are more active to feed them?

Thanks again

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Normally feeding should start on the 4th day after hatching. Observe closely and you can see them hunting for food.(swim with jerky forward movement) Take note also as they don't all hatch at the same time but will normally hatch within 2 days of each other. The higher the temp, the faster they will hatch. You can start feeding a little egg yoke once or twice a day. Boil an egg (eat 1/2 of it yourself) and take a quarter and wrap it with a piece of stocking, then use a small container/saucer, take some water, soak wrapped egg and squeeze the egg yoke thru' it and feed. keep remainder in fridge for next feed. (don't keep unfinished egg for more than 2 days).

Usually not all fry can eat brine shrimp within the first 5 days of hatching, you can see whether they are full or not by looking at their belly. (belly must have food at all times). And of course don't overfeed as they will foul up your water quickly and kill your fry.

I hope that will help set you going in the right direction.

Cheers

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Normally feeding should start on the 4th day after hatching. Observe closely and you can see them hunting for food.(swim with jerky forward movement) Take note also as they don't all hatch at the same time but will normally hatch within 2 days of each other. The higher the temp, the faster they will hatch. You can start feeding a little egg yoke once or twice a day. Boil an egg (eat 1/2 of it yourself) and take a quarter and wrap it with a piece of stocking, then use a small container/saucer, take some water, soak wrapped egg and squeeze the egg yoke thru' it and feed. keep remainder in fridge for next feed. (don't keep unfinished egg for more than 2 days).

Usually not all fry can eat brine shrimp within the first 5 days of hatching, you can see whether they are full or not by looking at their belly. (belly must have food at all times). And of course don't overfeed as they will foul up your water quickly and kill your fry.

I hope that will help set you going in the right direction.

Cheers

Thanks!

They are mainly off the sides today, so I've fed some brine shrimp in all four corners and they are doing the jerky movements as you said. So I'm presuming they are feeding on it.

Until I can get hold of some hikari first bites, I'm going to swap between egg yolk and brine shrimp and see how that goes.

Thanks again.

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