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Black Moor With Eye Problems


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  • Regular Member

Hey Guys, I'm new to the forum and I have a black moor that has developed some eye problem of some kind. The eyes have both got some dark patches the colour of their skin on the “bubble” of the eye. One has now nearly spread over the whole thing and this eye is also swollen considerably over the size of the other eye. The other eye has some whitish clouding with the darker patch. From what I can see the eye itself is bloodshot also.

In terms of abnormal behaviour the fish is eating fine and is behaving the same as ever. There is some surface gulping, that again has always happened. Has been caught once or twice swimming quickly at the corner of the tank.

The tank has two amazon swords, two other plants with small easily detached leaves that the fish don't like eating and a bunch of “pond weed” all anchored in the gravel. There is an eygyptian themed ornament which I though he may have hurt himself on but that hasn't been a problem before.

I have another fish in the tank with no problems whatsoever and it shows non of the behavioural characteristics as above. And I have a second tank with another pair of fancies, black moor and fantail. These are both fine and have an identical set up but with some hornwort and other plants.

Test Strips API:

Ammonia=0

Nitrite=0.2

Nitrate=50

ph=6.6

KH=70

GH=70

tap:

GH:140

KH:180

tank temp is 20C

Difficult to read so I'm not sure if these are spot on!

Tank is 15 Gallons and running since the 13th December last year.

The filter is a stingray filter 15 300LPH

Change the water once a week removing just over 30% of the water

Changed 30% on Sunday

There are 2 fish in the tank, one black moor and one golden fan tail. They are currently around 3 inches long.

Use Interpet Bioactive Tapsafe to condition the water every week.

Feed the fish standard flakes which are briefly soaked before I put it in. A generous pinch, twice a day, around three times a week I feed them diced peas instead of the second dosage of flake.

No new fish as is already pushed for space, luckily not too big yet.

Added some general tonic soon after the problem first showed on sat the 28th after a water change.

The woman in the fish shop advised it as it appeared to be just the one eye that was swollen. But that eye is now nearly completely cover in black stuff a similar colour to it body around the eye.

HELP?

Sorry for the massive post but i wanted to give as much info as possible!

Thanks!

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  • Regular Member

Hello, welcome to the forum. I'm sorry you are having issues, and hope that we can be helpful here. The info you supplied is tremendously helpful already. I was wondering if you could provide some pics and/or a video of the affected and unaffected eye. Having visuals really aid in the diagnosis. Thanks!

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  • Regular Member

Hey sorry for not getting these up initially.

I have some pictures from when we first got them below:

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x139/blackstarlincs/DSCF1614.jpg

and

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x139/blackstarlincs/DSCF1613.jpg

And then, as he's moving so much I have some videos on youtube of how the eyes are now, I hope you can get something from them:

I'm afraid my camera is a bit rubbish!

Sorry for the number of links but I'm not sure how to get photos in the post otherwise.

Cheers

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  • Regular Member

Hello, thanks for the links! That's exactly what we needed, so there is absolutely no need to apologize for delivering what we asked :)

To be honest, I don't think there is anything wrong with your fish, for several reasons:

1. Black, in addition to coloration, is generally a color associated with healing. Given that this is a young moor, I wouldn't be surprised that he still just getting his colors.

2. The large eye does not appear to be popeye or any or sort of injury. Telescope eyes continue to grow all their lives, and sometimes they grow very unevenly.

3. He appears to be otherwise very active and happy.

I would not try to treat with anything else. I would just make sure to increase the frequency of water changes, to 75-80% weekly. Don't worry, this large WC is actually really good for the fish.

Finally, a 15 gallon tank is a tad small for the two of them together. We usually recommend 20 gallons for the first first and 10-20 gallons for each additional fish. So, to accomodate them for the rest of their lives, you should look into getting a 30-40 gallon tank at some point in the future, but soonish. They are still small, so the increased WCs and volume of WC should be OK for a little while, but they ultimately will need a bigger home.

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  • Regular Member

Thanks very much for the advice, It's good to hear that he's well and likely just healing and growing. I know that I need to improve upon the tank size, unfortunately being a student I move around quite a lot and obviously the bigger the tank the more awkward this is. What kind of timescale do you suggest? And would improving filtration help to slow the need for upgrading? Or is it really just a case up upping the water changes? I really just need until the end of summer as I will have moved house by then. After that I shouldn't be moving for a few years so I can more easily upgrade. And obviously time to save up for a tank!

Thanks for the help!

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  • Regular Member

I think your time frame works out very well.

Thanks for reminding me to talk about filtration; I had completely forgotten about it :o

Yes, I would definitely recommend getting some additional filtration for the tank, even now. Even though your tank has been set up since December, there is still some nitrite, which tells me that the biological filtration isn't quite able to handle the bioload.

One other issue. What is your tap pH? A tank pH of 6.6 is a bit low. We normally would like to see pH in the more neutral range.

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  • Regular Member

OK, but the nitrate level is OK? I recently got some plants in there and they are all rooting well and growing so i'm hoping they are doing well.

I'll look at some new filters tomorrow, double up in one tank and get a new one for the other tank. Would you recommend keeping the current filter in whilst introducing the new one for a week for example?

The Tap pH is the same as the tank pH, is it a big problem do you think? It seems unusual as a quick google is telling me that most people have a pH of 7-7.8 in my area which seems unusual. Something in the pipes do you think?

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  • Regular Member

Nitrates are in the high range, although not quite a danger acutely. I would aim to keep it below 40ppm at all times, and below 20ppm if possible.

You have pretty well buffered water, so it might be OK with that pH. However, I would still increase WC to about 80-90% weekly.

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  • Admin

I got a question, the white in that one eye. Does it look watery like liquid moving in the eye? Does it look cloudy looking in or is it just color?

Oh and Alex is right we need to get that PH up there. PH in the 6 range is dangerous to the fish's heal. Goldfish like a PH of 7.0 Min to about 8.4. So we need to get your Ph up there just a bit. Can you get a Buffer?

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  • Regular Member

The white doesn't look watery no how come? just looks like it's on the surface?

I don't really know about pH buffers to be honest? Can you explain a bit more? The fish and plants are all doing well so i don't want to do something that isn't necessarily needed.

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  • Admin

See your Ph is low which in a since is burning there slim coat. A buff will help your KH ( minerals) stay up there so that the PH wont drop on you... I explain it here ...

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/page/index.html/_/water-quality-articles/ph-kh-problems-r205

Your fish and plants will thank you. Plants can tolerate a more larger range of Ph than the goldfish can.

The buffers we recommend here is Seachem Gold Buffer, this you can normally find at a LFS. Also there is Buff it up on goldfishconnection.com.

Also you could try crushed coral in a aquarium bag and place it in the filter. This will help your KH, sometimes it will stable the PH.

Is there a way you can get your KH tested, this will tell us just how soft your water is and if Coral with work or if you do need a buffer :)

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  • Regular Member

Is that the same KH as in my first post?If so KH=70 in the tank and KH=180 from the tap.

Having read your link am I right in thinking that it is all used up because the tank is essentially overstocked? and the improved filter I should be getting tomorrow along with the more frequent water changes should increase the pH to a more acceptable level, have I read that right?

If I do have to put something in there i would prefer something such as coral or shells that would mean I don't have to put a lot of chemicals in. I'm certainly learning a lot! :clapping:

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  • Admin

Your pretty close. The problem though your KH is getting used up by your fish and if you have live plants. Also rather fast too.

First suggestion now is to get the crushed coral, but Im thinking your going to need a buffer. You have pretty much the same problem I do. I have crushed coral in my tank but I also add a buffer with every water change. I do this to keep my PH stable but I also know my KH gets consumed like yours does. So my ph will drop rather fast on me. I lost 2 fish after moving here cause I didnt pay attention to the Ph. This is what lead me to making an article about this problem :thumb:

More water changes may help but your going to need to test to see. In all honesty its much easier with a buffer :thumb:

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  • Regular Member

OK, thanks very much, i'll get on the crushed coral and the new filter and monitor the levels, then nip up the road for a buffer if it doesn't improve.

Thanks for all your help

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