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FishyMom

treatinch Ich

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After searching the forum here and looking at the posted photos, I'm positive I have ich going on in my 100 gallon tank. I understand to treat prazi and salt. I don't have any prazi and even if I ordered it today it won't arrive for several days...so my immediate option is salting the tank. I have Mediterranean Sea Salt which IIRC will work Question is how much do I add to the tank to raise it to the recommended level and how long do I keep them in the salt water. Oh I did do a BIG water swap...about 80%. The kiddos do seem perkier right now, except for the one who is worst, which is Hershey my chocolate Ryunkin and he has it the worse.

Any other suggestions?

FishyMom

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If you can fill out the questions above and add a picture/video that would be great. Someone will be along soon to guide you but they will need the questions answered so they have a clear idea of your setup, that way they can then advise what is best for you :)

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Okay, back from class now and re-tested water and have answered all the questions I should have had I not been in such a rush!

Ammonia Level - 0.25

Nitrite Level - Cannot Test

Nitrate level - Cannot Test

Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 7.6 at least (My test kit maxes out there)

Ph Level, Tap: 7.6 (again my text kit maxes out there

(If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Other Required Info:

Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API

Water temperature? 72

Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 100 galllons - 2 weeks

What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Cascade 300

How often do you change the water and how much? 20% every other day - 90% swap today.

How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today did a 80-90% water swamp

How many fish in the tank and their size? 4" Ryunkin, 4" Oranda, two 3" Ryukins, 3" Black Moor, 2-1/2" Black/Orange Telescope, 2" pearlscale, 1-1/2" Panda Telescope, 4 inch golden loach

What kind of water additives or conditioners? Aqueon Water Conditioner

What do you feed your fish and how often? Aqueon Gold Fish flakes in morning, Aqueon Granules evening, Blood Worms on Saturday

Any new fish added to the tank? Yes mom "surprised" me while I was gone and added a black Ranchu and an albino pleco and flat our added it to the tank, despite my having a small quarantine tank. Both of those fish died myteriously and I am suspicious they may be the source of the infection as I've had no problems with my tanks until now. I have advised her under no circumstances is she to add fish to the main tank. <sigh>

Any medications added to the tank? None yet, I'm going to start adding salt shortly, I found the recipe here,

List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. See above.

Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Definitive white spots all over the body of the chocolate ryunkin, suspicous spot(s) on the Oranda.

Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? I've got 2-3 fish hanging out at the bottom. Oranda just floating at the top very lethargic.

I can't figure out how too add an image here of Hershey, but I'm dead positive it's ich.

Thanks,

FishyMom

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If someone can walk me through it, I can post a photo of Hershey who is the most obviously ill goldfish.

Fishymom

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There is a link in my sig that shows you how to do this.

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I am not knowledgable enough to give much advice as I'm still learning but I will say;

I would hold off on adding any salt until its advised. You have readings of ammonia after a huge water change which means there must be a lot of ammonia building up in the tank. Salt and ammonia can be very dangerous to the fish.

You could do with investing in the other tests too as nitrite in the tank can be fatal and nitrates will also build up fast and can cause floaty issues. If your pH is maxing at the 7.6 then you would be best to check with a high range test also to see exactly where it is on the scale. Is is possible your local fish shop would test for you, in many areas they will. Make sure to get actual numbers for results though, don't let them just say everything us fine.

Hope things start picking up soon. Poor

Edit; your tank has only been set up 2 weeks? So are these all new fish? Did you cycle your tank/filter prior to adding the fish?

From the ammonia reading it's likely your filter is having trouble coping with all the waste produced as that's a lot of fishies, especially if all added at once. There is the possibility that nitrites are also present so I'd suggest testing for them asap.

Edited by ninzah

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I am not knowledgable enough to give much advice as I'm still learning but I will say;

I would hold off on adding any salt until its advised. You have readings of ammonia after a huge water change which means there must be a lot of ammonia building up in the tank. Salt and ammonia can be very dangerous to the fish.

You could do with investing in the other tests too as nitrite in the tank can be fatal and nitrates will also build up fast and can cause floaty issues. If your pH is maxing at the 7.6 then you would be best to check with a high range test also to see exactly where it is on the scale. Is is possible your local fish shop would test for you, in many areas they will. Make sure to get actual numbers for results though, don't let them just say everything us fine.

Hope things start picking up soon. Poor

Edit; your tank has only been set up 2 weeks? So are these all new fish? Did you cycle your tank/filter prior to adding the fish?

From the ammonia reading it's likely your filter is having trouble coping with all the waste produced as that's a lot of fishies, especially if all added at once. There is the possibility that nitrites are also present so I'd suggest testing for them asap.

:goodpost

It is as Ninzah said, you really need a more complete picture of your tank parameters, since you are cycling/just setting up the tank with fish in it. May I suggest the API freshwater master kit, which will allow you to test for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates?

Salt is the appropriate treatment for ich, but things become more complicated with a cycling tank.

Would you please post some pics and/or video of the fish with ich?

In the mean time, since you need to treat the entire tank, it will require a lot of salt. I recommend getting Morton's Canning & Pickling salt, which is available at most grocery stores.

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I'm really tight financially until at least Monday but let me see about getting the API master kit...I believe I know the one you folks are referring to. I was planning on investing in a better filter with my 5/20 paycheck. I also want to say and I don't want anyone to take this wrong, but I do test my water regularly and I have NEVER gotten a ZERO amonia reading. However, my fishies have behaved healthy and happy and have been growing. API is the only test kit I can get here and I'm wondering if maybe I'm just not interpreting it incorrectly. However, having said that, I can see about getting my water tested for Nitrites/Nitrates. I'l be heading out to the look into it after my conference call here in a few minutes.

Meanwhile, here is a photograph of Hershey I managed to snap last night.

Hershey.jpg

Thank you all.

FishyMom

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Oh poor fish looks so sad :( I too have a sick baby right now.

It's quite possible that you haven't been able to get a zero reading as your filter would have to be exceptionally powerful and full of media to be able to cope with the waste output of so many fish. Also, since your tank/filter is newly set up and, I assume, uncycled this would also be why you aren't yet seeing zero readings. (it took me 3 months of fishless cycling before I was fully cycled and getting consistent zero readings) :)

Also, don't worry, most of us here are tight for money at times.

Can I just confirm when you got the fish and whether you got them all together or in stages? Is this actually a two week old tank with new fish or is this tank an upgrade from a smaller one?

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Financial constraints is something we all can relate to, and I do have a couple of suggestions for you:

1. until you are able to get the test kit, bring water samples (including tap) to your LFS and ask them to check it for you. They will do this as a courtesy, and do not charge. :) Make sure they give you actual numbers.

2. How long have you had your set up? I remember that my tanks took months to go from 0.25 (less) to zero ammonia. However, all other parameters were in check, and that's what we need to find out.

3. The ich is pretty bad, so let's start salting right away. The entire main tank needs to be treated, so the Morton's Canning & Pickling salt is the only economical choice at $1.50/4 pounds. I use this, and it works extremely well.

For treatment of ich, let's leave the temp at 72, although this might mean that the life cycle of ich is a bit slower to progress than at 80. We want to bring salt to 0.3%, but incrementally, with 0.1% salt increases every 12 hours. To salt the tank to 0.1% in a 100g that's 95 level teaspoons of salt, since we assume there's only about 95 gallons of water. You could dissolve this in a pan with some tank water, or what I've found to work really well is to put this amount of salt in a panty hose, tie it off, and hang it in the tank. It will dissolve fairly quickly. Make sure you bring salt concentration to 0.3%. If you start today, you will achieve that level by tomorrow.

There is one thing I think is absolutely necessary, and that's the water conditioner Prime. Prime, in addition to removing chlorine and chloramines, will also detoxify ammonia and nitrites. This is helpful while you are cycling and treating.

You will want to do at least 50% WC every other day, taking care to replace the amount of salt taken out, and making sure that ammonia never gets above 1ppm (preferably 0.5ppm), if you are using Prime. You can add more Prime each day to help detoxify ammonia, if necessary. However, frequent WCs is a must, to remove ich from the system.

You will need to treat with salt for an addition 10 days after the last spot of ich has disappeared. We usually recommend 7, but that's also at 80 degrees. Since we are keeping things at 72, an extra 3 days is just precaution.

Let us know if you have any questions, and good luck! :)

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Let me try too clarify things since all of you are being SO HELPFUL and I seem to be confusing you all

The 100g tank is new to me and is an upgrade. There is an combination of existing fish with new fish...the new additions being Hershey the 4" Chocolate Ryunkin who is my visibly sick fishy, the loach who is not sick, and the panda telescope. They were quarantined for 2 weeks. I realized I made 2 mistakes. 1) I forgot that I had not quarantined the fish long enough in my excitement of adding fish to the tank. 2) I did not realize that I should have cycled the tank before adding fish to it all.

I still have my 20g tank, but I have 2 comets in there so I cannot use it for quarantine purposes. However, I do have access to a small tank that I could quarantine Hershey to though seeing as at this point the big tank is contanimnated and I have to treat it anyway, I don't know that quarantining him there will help. Could you folks give me advice on this? I will move him in a heartbeat if you think it is advisable.

I will locate and buy Prime immediately. I believe I can swing that.

When I get back I will likely start researching asking questions about what filters to buy for my 100g tank. I believe that 2 like 50g tank filter are better than one 100g filter. I'll then take the filter from the 100g tank, decontaminate it to within an inch it's life and put it on the 20g. I think.

Again, I cannot thank you all enough for your help!

FishyMom

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Hello,

When it comes to parasitic infections such as flukes and ich, once discovered we have to treat the entire tank, so Hershey can stay where he is and be treated.

In regard to filters, ignore the claims on the labels, since those are relevant to tropicals and not goldfish. For goldfish, you will want a combination of filters that add up to give at least 10x the gph (gallons per hour) of your tank, or 1000 gph. :)

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Okay I am now back from Petco and victorious. I had the water tested and my amonia still came up 0.25, my pH was 8.0, Nitrate 0.10 and Nitrite 0.1. I understand that my Nitrite should be lower which means I'm overfeading da fishies. I have possession of the 10 gallon quarantine tank. Should I seriously NOT move Hershey? My thinking being that though I have several unhappy fish, I do not have any other who visibly have ich. Your thoughts folks?

BTW, I did pick up up the Prime, which I intend on adding with my next water swap! Again, thank you all folks!

FishyMom

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You seriously need to treat the entire tank, or else ich will remain a threat in your tank for the foreseeable future.

It's a huge tank, and will require a lot of work, but there is no other way around it. I'm sorry.

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No matter what, I am treating the large tank. I never intended to not treat it. My thinking and I admit it could be flawed is to move Hershey to remove at least the sickest and most contageous fish and treat both tanks. I fully understood that I needed to treat the large tank either way. I've already added the requisite salt to the tank. I'm sorry I'm just so worried for these guys and I'm on small amount worried that all the fishes will get infected. And trust me there is no small amount of guilt that I may have unintentionally brought this all on myself. I will do a 50% swap tomorrow and add more salt to replace what I remove and add in the next dose.

Again, thank you...I'm following your instructions to the letter.

FishyMom

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Your worries are understandable.

If you want to remove Hershey and treat him separately, I'm OK with that. Just make sure that everyone gets treated :)

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how's the treatment going hun? any improvements?

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