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How to get fat fish?


Smurfishy

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My guys although they eat plenty, by plenty I mean 3x a day without leaving leftovers, just aren't beefing up. I feed them 50% gel food (salmon, pellets, freeze dried shrimp, peas, garlic, seaweed I'm prob missing something), 25% freeze dried gamma shrimp, and 25% fruits, veggies, seaweed. I was wondering if there was anything else I could add to their diet?

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Instead of trying to fatten them up, I would work on keeping them healthy. ^_^ Let them grow - it will take time, but it's well worth the wait. You should never ever try to overfeed them - goldfish have sensitive digestive systems and fancy varieties are even more sensitive to poor water quality (that can often result from overfeeding).

Just let them grow naturally. :) In three years, they'll be big "little" guys.

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You should never ever try to overfeed them - goldfish have sensitive digestive systems and fancy varieties are even more sensitive to poor water quality (that can often result from overfeeding).

I agree that you should never overfeed anyone/any animal. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by goldfish having sensitive digestive systems. As compared to what?

Also, fancy variety or no, all types (gold)fish should never be exposed to poor water quality. Even the hardier types deserve to have the best of conditions, wouldn't you say? I prefer to have one set of rules that applies across the board.

Edited by dnalex
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I agree that you should never overfeed anyone/any animal. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by goldfish having sensitive digestive systems. As compared to what?
In my experience, as compared to more "natural" (i.e. not tampered with genetically by humans) fish. My puffers and tropicals have never experienced the food-related issues (SBD, constipation, floatiness) that I've seen in my goldies.
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I agree that you should never overfeed anyone/any animal. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by goldfish having sensitive digestive systems. As compared to what?
In my experience, as compared to more "natural" (i.e. not tampered with genetically by humans) fish. My puffers and tropicals have never experienced the food-related issues (SBD, constipation, floatiness) that I've seen in my goldies.

I agree. That's not a sensitive digestive system though. Those issues stem from having compacted bodies through breeding selection. Case in point, single tails and the more streamlined varieties almost always never have these problems, so goldfish digestive systems work perfectly fine when they are allowed to have the body shape nature intended them to have. :)

Edited by dnalex
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I agree that you should never overfeed anyone/any animal. However, I'm not quite sure what you mean by goldfish having sensitive digestive systems. As compared to what?
In my experience, as compared to more "natural" (i.e. not tampered with genetically by humans) fish. My puffers and tropicals have never experienced the food-related issues (SBD, constipation, floatiness) that I've seen in my goldies.

I agree. That's not a sensitive digestive system though. Those issues stem from having compacted bodies through breeding selection. Case in point, single tails and the more streamlined varieties almost always never have these problems, so goldfish digestive systems work perfectly fine when they are allowed to have the body shape nature intended them to have. :)

But having a convoluted intestinal tract DOES cause sensitivity -- much higher susceptibility to things such as SBD, constipation, etc. I think you're getting a bit bogged down in semantics here.

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But having a convoluted intestinal tract DOES cause sensitivity -- much higher susceptibility to things such as SBD, constipation, etc. I think you're getting a bit bogged down in semantics here.

This is not about semantics, but about making a blanket statement regarding goldfish that is not quite accurate. I don't think goldfish in general have sensitive digestive systems.

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This is not about semantics, but about making a blanket statement regarding goldfish that is not quite accurate. I don't think goldfish in general have sensitive digestive systems.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Because I think they do.

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Yes, RD, we will agree to disagree :)

My guys although they eat plenty, by plenty I mean 3x a day without leaving leftovers, just aren't beefing up. I feed them 50% gel food (salmon, pellets, freeze dried shrimp, peas, garlic, seaweed I'm prob missing something), 25% freeze dried gamma shrimp, and 25% fruits, veggies, seaweed. I was wondering if there was anything else I could add to their diet?

I think you have a very nice & varied diet. As for fattening them up, you are much better off feeding the enough so that there is a slow and steady growth, as opposed to quick spurts. Quite a few studies have shown that in all types of animals, hyperfeeding invariably leads to decreased lifespan, and goldfish and koi are no different. :)

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Ok now, I never said I wanted to overfeed them, I was just wondering what other foods could I give them that would help bulk them up.

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you can feed foods that are high in protein such as bloodworms, shrimp etc. but be careful though, you still need to feed a staple diet, so you need to feed veggies etc..

you can make gelfood with high protein foods mixed with veggies so that they're getting all their requirements with every bite, some even mix a probiotic in with their gelfood.

another concern with high protein food is that it spoils the water quickly, so you will need to increase the routine water change to twice large weekly water changes as well as ensure you have good filtration.

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I assume you're wanting to fatten up your fantails, right?

If they're young and small now, I think they should get more rotund on their own as they get older and grow naturally. All goldfish start out as skinny little fry that pretty much all look the same regardless of breed. Telescope, bubble eye, and celestial fry start out looking like all the rest, then their eyes grow out, celestials' turn up, and bubble eyes' eyes grow bubbles. Younger fish of ALL fancy breeds are closer to the skinny fry body frame, then gradually adopt their more plump adult shape, no overfeeding required. Ryukins get humps, wenned fish get (visible) wens, pearlscales get really really spherical, etc.

Everyone, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, my response comes from what I've read, and from seeing lots of fish of different ages.

Edited by adverbemonade
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There is a really good youtube video on how to increase growth in koi that can be related to increasing growth in goldfish. Basically LOTS and LOTS of filtration, lots of current..because the more your goldfish move the more hungry they will be and the more you can feed them. So exercise, fresh water and good quality food.

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But having a convoluted intestinal tract DOES cause sensitivity -- much higher susceptibility to things such as SBD, constipation, etc. I think you're getting a bit bogged down in semantics here.

This is not about semantics, but about making a blanket statement regarding goldfish that is not quite accurate. I don't think goldfish in general have sensitive digestive systems.

I was only referring to the fact that goldfish lack a stomach and are designed by nature to eat small morsels of food continuously throughout the day. :) Perhaps "sensitive" was the wrong word to use, but fancy varieties do tend to run into more buoyancy problems than any other fish I know.

Edited by Christina90
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There is a really good youtube video on how to increase growth in koi that can be related to increasing growth in goldfish. Basically LOTS and LOTS of filtration, lots of current..because the more your goldfish move the more hungry they will be and the more you can feed them. So exercise, fresh water and good quality food.

Iwebe, with all due respect (and you are a very intelligent poster), I don't think you can apply all aspects of koi care to goldfish. Koi are river fish. They need depth and love current. Goldfish are lake/pond fish that prefer shallow water, and seem to be most relaxed with still water. They can and do live in rivers, but select the backwaters that are still and relatively shallow. Koi are sensitive to oxygen levels, while goldfish can survive amazingly low levels of oxygen. I think I know the video you refer to. Is this the one where he points out the danger of just pouring in your dechlor and then running a hose into the pond? This is much more dangerous with koi than goldfish, since koi are drawn to running water, but I still established trickle in-trickle out systems for all of my ponds.

If we are talking about the same video, I was most impressed by the observation that a big mouth will yield a big fish. I've found that to be exactly true for goldfish as well.

That said, goldfish will do very well in a good koi pond.

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This was a 3 part video on some guy that hosts a koi growing contest of some kind. But I think the general aspects are the same, we always promote lots of waterchanges, good food and filtration. Those fish are more likely to reach their potential growth than fish confined to a small tank...I don't think they need to be as deep as a koi pond. But shallow and larger tank a fish would still get more exercise.

He did suggestion the automatic waterchanges system of trickling in freshwater...so maybe it was the same guy.

The only parts I was stealing was the extra filtration..good food and current. I know for growth of nice fins/show fish shallow water with little water movement is best. But I think even in a home aquarium goldfish would do well with extra bubbles and pumps. I know mine certainly like playing in the bubbles and outflow from the filters =)

if you think about it a goldfish just hanging out isnt going to burn much energy, and is not going to need to eat as much. I am not suggesting you force a goldfish to constantly swim against a strong current or force feed a fish extra food...just the usual recommendations of space...fresh water, good filtration and high quality food we recommend to everyone anyway

But then again I also think green water does wonders on the growth of goldfish too especially fry

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He did suggestion the automatic waterchanges system of trickling in freshwater...

how does this work? especially since we need to treat water with prime/dechlorinator, temp and possible PH fluctuation? unless there is a sump with treated water.. but then, that's not adding fresh water, that's just churning the same water with the same growth hormones etc etc.. this system is not clear in my mind, anyone able to explain how this would work for an aqurarium that is treated with prime and hypothetically PH buffers?

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I think from how i understand it...the is a slow constant trickle of fresh water in...in a large pond or pool..it being such a small amount constantly there would not be any jump in PH. And the chlorine would also be minimal and would work its way out on its own after 24 hours. He said it kept the water fresh, but also kept down some hormone in the water that builds up when to many fish are in a pond that keeps fish from growing as well. If your doing a 50% waterchanges...you could have a massive PH shift or put in to much chlorine...but if your replacing say 10% of 300 gallons thats only 30 gallons dripping in through out the day slowly. He said make sure its into your filtration so its churned up and diluted with the rest of the tank water and you won't have a chemical imbalance and its also safer than the larger waterchanges where we may dump in chlorine removed and then pour water in by a hose. He actually said that fish run the risk of burning their gills by inhaling chlorinated water still that way by going up to investigate the hose.

id imagine if you have to use ph buffers if you have the water running over crushed coral it may help?

Edited by lwebe10
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you would also have to have some kind of overflow where the fresh water churning in on one side...and the other side a place where the water would filter out into the drain when it got to high...so a slow input of fresh water...and a slow drain off of older water repeated 24/7 wouldnt cause a fluctuation in temp or anything in theory

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I use a trickle in-trickle out system in all of my ponds. Since my ponds are small, it's actually drip in-drip out. I have a container for fresh water, which I fill with water and dechlorinate it. The container has a tap fitted with an adjustable dripper that drips fresh water into the pond. On the other end of the pond I have an overflow outlet that drips out pond water taken from the bottom of the pond. Here is the system in the front pond: http://www.kokosgold...c-water-change/ , and here it is in a 50 gallon stock tank pond (starts in post #10): http://www.kokosgold...e-instant-pond/

I have a trickle in (and also a pond-type filter) set up for my 40B The fresh water reservoir is a 5 gallon bucket with a siphon. When I remove water from the tank or filter, I put the same amount of fresh water in the bucket and let it trickle in. An outflow pipe is easy if you get a hole drilled in the tank at the maximum water height. Both the glass-cutting hole saw and hiring someone to do it are expensive. I have a plan for doing it without a hole in the glass, but I have a pond to finish first.

You can trickle tap water into a koi pond because of the pond size. These ponds are in the thousands, and often tens of thousands of gallons. The trickle of chlorinated water is quickly diluted, and the chlorine dissipates before any significant concentration can build up. The trickle is not interesting to the koi, who flock to a hard flow from the hose. Since this series of videos came out, trickle in - trickle out has become very popular for koi ponds.

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