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Sssandy

What happened to my Oranda's Wen?!

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What happened to my Oranda's wen?! Overnight half of my Oranda's wen seems to have changed from clear bubbly to cloudy smoothish. He is otherwise very active and appears healthy. I have seen my other orandas have typical head growth "pimples" but this looks nothing like that. I'm worried its some kind of bacterial infection........ Thoughts?

Here's some pix to help:

YESTERDAY HE LOOKED LIKE THIS:DSC_0928-1.jpg

DSC_0931.jpg

TODAY HE LOOKS LIKE THIS:

DSC_0573.jpg

DSC_0571.jpg

I am thinking of doing a water change, but this will increase my ammonia because my tap water measures 1ppm of ammonia. I use prime, which will take care of it for 24 hours, but my bio filter seems to take longer than that to eat it all up. Not sure why. I do have some plants that are partially wasting away, so that may be adding to the load.

MY TANK

Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level - <0.25
  • * Nitrite Level - 0
  • * Nitrate level - 40 -80 (cant tell color is the same on results sheet) My tap water tests at this level so it is difficult to do better. I have a planted tank and am working on adding a pothos as suggested on the forum
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 7.8 - 8.0
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) - 7.5
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? - API Drops
  • * Water temperature? 72
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? - 20 gallons 5 months
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? - Aqueon 20 and Aqueon 10 at same time
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? with fish 1X/wk 30% but more if needed
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? I did a 100% water change a few weeks ago after my last fish died. I kept my bio filter alive with a little fish food. Just got the fish 4 days ago, so have not done a water change.
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 Oranda - 3 inches
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? - Neutral regulator and Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari Lion Head sinking pellets (4 pellets 3X/day, just replaced one feeding with frozen goldfish mix yesterday)
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? - the one and only
  • * Any medications added to the tank? - No
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. - 3 Tbs salt
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? - Half of wen has turned cloudy
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? - Fish has always seemed more active than my previous fish - swimming quickly around the tank from one end to the other seeming to be looking for a way out - perhaps its just my imagination. Also, my apple snail (Bruce) seems unhappy. He spends most of his time floating at the the top of the tank curled up in a ball.

Posting a New Topic in Diagnosis & Discussion

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Hello,

It's possible that it's a little patch of fungus on the wen. I would do nothing other than to keep watch on it, and keep really good water.

I do have a question and a suggestion.

- Why do you have 3 tablespoons of salt in the tank? This amount, in a 20 gallon tank, comes out to 0.05%.

- I think that 30% weekly WCs is too small. Given that you have ammonia in the tap, it's not ideal just yet to do very large water changes at any one time yet. Here's my suggestion:

- for the next two weeks, do 20% WCs daily. This way, your tap ammonia doesn't bring the tank ammonia level up too high.

- after a couple of weeks, switch doing 30% WCs every 2 days and do this for 2 weeks. Check parameters a day after WCs to see whether ammonia has been processed or not.

- if your filter is able to process that much ammonia in 24 hours, then begin doing 40% WCs every 2-3. Again, check to see whether the ammonia is processed within 24 hours.

- Once the filter can handle that, then up it to 50%, and do bi-weekly 50% changes. :)

Edited by dnalex

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Excellent advice! Following it will commence immediately. :)

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Nice oranda by the way.

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Bottom Sitting: My Oranda, who has been christened Leo, is spending increasing amounts of time bottom sitting. He has his fin up and is perks up when you come near the tank and he does some low swimming from time to time, but seems MUCH more lethargic than when we first got him 5 days ago when he was swimming frantically back and forth. It seems like new fish take a few days to settle into their quarters and chill out, but my sense is he is a little too chilled out and I know how quickly these things can turn serious.

Wen Discoloration: His wen discoloration spread a bit to the other side of his face yesterday, but now seems like it might be fading back to its original color.

Water Changes and Parameters: I did the 20% water change as directed. 24 hours later Ammonia was < 0.25 as might be expected. I plan to follow dnalex's WC schedule.

Feeding: I have reduced my feedings to 4 pellets a day in the last 2 days to try to get my water parameters to a healthier place. - Could Leo the Oranda be lethargic because he is not getting enough to eat?

Salt: Don't know what kind of "magical" math I was doing to calculate my salt, but clearly I was way off. Leo (the Oranda) is clearly frustrated with me, but amiably trying not to show it and my Apple/Mystery Snail, Bruce, was so angry he wouldn't even speak to me, so I put him in his own 1 gallon bowl with no salt and plenty of money wort (he has no filtration or bubbler :( ) but I thought he might die at such a high % of salt so I thought it would be best to get him out all together. He perked up a bit when I put him in his new water, but still spends most of the time floating curled up on the top of the water. Did I make the right move for poor little, Bruce? I plan to return him to the tank in 5 days when the salt has been reduced. I plan to not replace the salt in my tank when I do my daily water changes unless you don't think that is a good idea....

Water de chlorinator: I have changed from using Neutral regulator 7.0 to Prime drops for my water cleansers because Prime neutralizes the ammonia load. Wondering if Leo's change has to do with not enough de-chlorinator for my type of water. How do you calculate that?

Planting: I have also added a pothos plant to the top of my tank to help with the nitrate levels. I also have two other aquatic plants in there to help with the load parts of them seem to be rotting which I imagine doesn't help my nitrates. I do my best to remove the rotting parts. Not sure if I should keep plants with dying parts in the tank considering my parameters or not.

Thanks for your help,

Sssandy

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Hi Sandy,

I'm glad to hear that the wen is returning to its normal color :)

As for the bottom sitting, do you also notice clamping of the pelvic fins? May we have a video of this? He could be doing the bottom sitting because of the water quality and/or some other issue.

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Thanks for responding dnalex

Just did today's 20% water change and squeezed out my filter media in old tank water it was pretty gross. (plants in tank have been decaying some) removing the filter kicked some stuff into the water. : (

He got very twitchy when I replaced the water. Shimmying all of his fins.

Noticing the dorsal fin is now half way down some of the time. - To me these are early signs of difficulties ahead. I have also caught him yawning a few times.

He does not have clamped pectoral fins.

I will work on a video for later today.

I can dig up a copy of the cities info on all of our tap water parameters including chlorine and chloramine amounts. Would that be useful for making sure I'm putting enough prime in there?

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I think it would be beneficial to add a full dose of Prime (for the volume of the tank) to the tank each day, as you do water changes.

Also, since this is a new fish in QT, it might be a good idea to treat for flukes, using praziquantel.

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I will add the full dose of prime.

He is the only fish in my only tank so he is not in QT per say, but what I do for him will not affect other fish if that is what you are asking.

Still working on the video. He keeps perking up, swimming around and pretending nothing's wrong when I try to film - So uncooperative. ; )

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Sounds like flukes. I think treatment with Praziquantel is in order :)

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I had no idea flukes were so common! So much to learn!

Here's a video of Leo being mopey and yawning and then pretending he feels fine in case that is still pertinent.

I will try to find Praziquantel from a pet store tomorrow.

Does it matter what brand?

If I can't find any Praziquantel in stores, would any other treatment work? or should I Praziquantel online and hope my Goldie can wait out the shipping time?

Thanks for your help! (and Leo thanks you too)

Sandra

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Poor Leo!

Try to see if you can find the praziquantel (alone, not in combination with anything else tomorrow). If not, could you order it ASAP, either the AquaPrazi from goldfishconnection.com (along with Metro-Meds and Jumpstart), or Hikari Prazipro.

Let us know how your search goes tomorrow, and we will go from there.

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Hope everything works out for you. :) He's really friggin cute.

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Leo says he's feeling better today!!! - Swimming around the tank in a relaxed manner, rooting for food and acting much more like a normal fish thank I've ever seen. (initially he was freaking out with erratic swimming behavior followed by bottom sitting, seen above)

Not sure if he is just really liking Dnalex's changes to the tank chemistry or if flukes have good days and bad days.....

Should I still commence with praziquantel treatment or just continue to watch his progress?

Dnalex, Leo and I are very thankful for your thoughtful attention. : )

@ Mr B. - I know! - He's a heartbreaker! I am warily hopeful about his progress today. I feel like he has a much better chance now that I am connected to all you amazing, knowledgable people on the forum!

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I hope he feels better soon, he is so stinkin cute! :)

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Yay! I'm glad he's feeling a bit better! It does sound like he's reacting to something in the water.

I would still like to proceed with Praziquantel treatment, but not just yet. I would like to get updated parameters for today, along with perhaps a short video? Also, would you explain what you have been doing in terms of WCs, just so that we are all on the same page :)

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20% water changes in the last 3 days. Ammonia has been 0.25 or less every day. i have not replace the salt. I started adding prime for all 20 gallons yesterday.

Today:

Ammonia <0.25 almost 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: about 40

Ph: 7.8

I will send a video soon.

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Okay!!! Here it is! This is how Leo has been today. (sometimes he's swimming and rooting more) he's a little coy with the camera, so I did the best I could.

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he is sooo freaking adorable. You can go ahead and send him to me, he would look great in my tank :P

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Will you check your water parameters again before WC tomorrow and let us know? We can decide whether to start Prazi at that time. :)

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@ dnalex - Aye Aye! (salute)

@ Tithra - What a compliment! I have been an admirer of your gorgeous goldies since my youtube binge on all your videos. I am doing my best to keep Leo enticed to stay with me though I do catch him gazing longingly at the superior water quality, homemade meals and handsome company in your tank.

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@ dnalex - Aye Aye! (salute)

@ Tithra - What a compliment! I have been an admirer of your gorgeous goldies since my youtube binge on all your videos. I am doing my best to keep Leo enticed to stay with me though I do catch him gazing longingly at the superior water quality, homemade meals and handsome company in your tank.

:rofl maybe he can come to me for holidays :P

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@ dnalex - Okay water parameters for today:

Ammonia - 0.25

Nitirite - 0

Nitrate - 40-80 (cant distinguish on test sheet)

Ph - 7.8

Behavioral Update:

  • Still Looking pretty good for the most part, with a few strange habits.
  • Spending a lot of time in the top 2-3 inches in the same quarter of the tank near my Pothos roots. (not sure if he is nibbling at it when I'm not looking, thinks he is camouflage agains the white roots or maybe thinks this is the ideal mating place - he has mating tubercles on his pectoral fins right now)
  • He does NOT appear to be bobbing like a fish with buoyancy problems.
  • He doesn't seem to be able figure out eating in the last 2 days (food is left at the bottom of the tank and I have to vacuum). He has aways seemed to have trouble seeing and smelling food. If the food is really fresh (not pre-soaked) and very close then it seems like he can sometimes maybe taste it (?) and then gets excited searching for it, but often does not locate it.
  • He's not doing much rooting.
  • Fin is up. No yawning.
  • I caught him splashing the top of the water twice yesterday
  • W/C's seem to make him twitchy

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OK. Thanks :)

Add in a dose of Prime today, no WC, and test parameters again tomorrow please :)

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Perfect! I hadn't gotten around to doing the W/C today.........

.......Okay done! (I added "a dose" of Prime for the full tank) - Hope that's what you meant

You will hear from me tomorrow - "same fish time, same fish channel."

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