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milam

My Black Moor's eye is popping out! + i think he has an infection...

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Please help my black moor - his eye is popping out really bad and he seems to have some kind of infection underneith too. Both eyes are cloudy also.

My other good moor (?) is fine and seems to be trying to help him feel better. Its so painful to watch. :( What should I do? Also - anyone have advice on

algae?? My tank gets algae ridden in two weeks! I am afraid to use the algae killing chemicals - they seem so harsh. Is there a product someone can

advise? I am now having to clean my tank every 2 weeks.... ALSO thinking I would like to get a bigger tank - they might be happier?? I love them

both so much. Thank you SO much anyone who can give me some advice! :)

Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level ~ 0
  • * Nitrite Level ~ I don't know how to test this
  • * Nitrate level
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.0
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.0
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? TetraTest -PH / Nutrafin Ammonia Test
  • * Water temperature?72
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 28gal
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Cascade 2000
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? every 2-3 weeks - 50-70%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 - one gold fancy with big eyes (don't know the formal name) he is about 10" and my sick black moor is about 8"
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? dechlor / Melafix / Salt - now using Medi Gold but it really clouds up the water
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? 2x/day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Medi Gold
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I have been adding Salt periodically, I have used the Medi Gold in the past but it really accumulates a scum on the bottom of the tank and it gets really cloudy. I have also been using Melafix for about a month now... on and off.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? He just has this big bulging eye which he has had in the past but now there is a white bit underneith and both of his eyes are cloudy and also he sits on the bottom of that tank in the corner most of the time. He does eat tho which is good! My other fish just sits next to him - trying to help him feel better and nudges him every once in a while to get him moving which he does but then just settles down - I am sure he's in pain - SO hard to watch!
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? See above

post-21674-0-78556200-1334029617.jpg

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I'm sorry your fish isn't feeling well. :(

Can you get an API drop test kit? The parameters are vital.

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Hello,

I'm sorry your moor is having some issues. I hope we can help. Before we can really be helpful, we really need to know the values for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, because water quality, as determined by these parameters + pH, really lays the foundation for any healthy goldfish keeping. To that end, I would recommend getting a test kit. The one I think that will be the most useful is one called the "Freshwater Master Kit" made by API. Any Petco, Petsmart, or local fish store (LFS) should have it. Follow directions on how to measure the parameters.

There are a few things I would like to comment/ask:

1) Could you post some more pics that are bigger and focusing on the eyes? I have a really hard time with the thumbnail. There is a link in my signature about posting videos and pictures to this site.

2) With two large fish in a 28 gallon, you are pretty much maximally stocked. This is fine, but you will need to do quite a bit more water changes than you currently are doing. I am guessing that your nitrate readings will be sky high. Although nitrates are much less toxic than ammonia and nitrite, at high concentrations this substance can be very problematic and can induce stress to your fish, which will lead to chronic issues, such what you are seeing. Once you get the test kit and have more info, we can help as to how much (and how) to best do your WCs.

3) Now that you've started with the Medi-Gold, you will need to finish the course. However, I would still like to see bigger and more focused pictures of the eyes.

4) It's really important to vacuum out those residues from the Medi-Gold. Too much wastes in the tank will cause all kinds of problems.

5) May we have a picture of your whole tank setup, please?

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Hi Alex - this is the thread you responded to me before - now I see where I can enter in a reply. I have just ordered a nitrate kit - should come in a few days - i live far away from

pet stores. Since my last post I have bought a second hand 50 gallon tank for my two Moors. Now...a few weeks later they are both really sick. They just sit at the bottom and the black one is in much worse shape - looks like they both have ICK and tail rot - + my black moor's eye looks like its going to fall off! OMG..... I have checked all the levels and everything seems fine. They both sit at the bottom. I got two smaller goldfish and they seem fine right now. SO the day before yesterday I put some "Wardley Ick Away" in the tank but realized that I needed more and so yesterday I bought some "Quick Cure - Fast relief for Ick and Protozoan Parasites" Yesterday and put 50 drops in the tank and....they all really freaked out - gulping at the top for air - I replaced 1/3 of the water which helped and I have no filter in now - they are still sitting at the bottom and the water is all cloudy. Last night the Black Moor was laying on his side gasping for air..... I don't know what to do now. I am afraid to add anymore if the "Cure"... One other thing is I am wondering how important an underwater filtration system is? Maybe they aren't getting enough air? I have a two bubblers going right now. I just ordered the tubing for the under gravel filtration system which should arrive on Wednesday....so can't set it up until then - any thoughts would be MOST helpful! I took some more photos but not sure how to upload them to here.... will keep looking.

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Hello,

I am glad you are able to reply to the thread now. There is a link in my sig about posting pics and videos. If you following it, you should be able to upload and post some pics.

Do you not have any filters running on the tank? Undergravel filters are not good for goldfish tanks, and we usually discourage this. Where is your other filter?

Ich medications are usually formalin based, which takes away oxygen from the tank. That's the reason why your fish were gasping at the surface. I would try to post pics and we can go from there. Have you checked your parameters?

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Here are some more photos - my tank, and my other fish - the two little ones seem ok - the other moor - the gold one is just sitting at the bottom and her tail is starting to rot....

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I don't see any photos :(

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th_thing1-2.jpg?t=1336767928th_tank.jpg?t=1336767927sitting.jpg?t=1336767927pika.jpg?t=1336767927lets see if this works....here are the photos. my black moor is the most sick as you can see.... ;-( ...my other one is just sitting at the bottom and seems to have a whitish film over his body and his tail is starting to rot. the other two newer little goldfish seem ok right now...

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The PH is fine. Waiting for the nitrate test. Just a note - my fish have been sitting at the bottom for a long time...I thought they needed a bugger tank but now that I have a bigger tank it doesn't seem to be better. I thought that my GOLD fish was depressed because his buddy has been sick for so long....so I got the two other smaller fish but she doesn't seem to care.... just a little background. My biggest concern right now is if they are getting enough oxygen with the filters turned off since I added the Ick medication. Also - should I add more?? I really don't think I can - they really freaked out......omg....i didn't sleep at all last night - so worried. Amazing how attached one can get to fish - I've had the gold one for 5 years now and the black one for 3.

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I think the thing you need to do before anything else is to drain out all the water, fill it back up, and then drain again. Then, run the filters as you would. Once you've done that, let's go back and try to help them. I'm trying to get all the ich medication out of the system.

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Hi Alex - I am curious why you would want to get the Ick medication out of the system? Don't they have a parasite that is slowly killing them?? This all started before I put the ick stuff in. If I do empty out the tank, do I keep any of their water for them while I transfer them to a different container? Also ould you recommend thoroughly washing the rocks etc?

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Hi Alex - I am curious why you would want to get the Ick medication out of the system? Don't they have a parasite that is slowly killing them?? This all started before I put the ick stuff in. If I do empty out the tank, do I keep any of their water for them while I transfer them to a different container? Also ould you recommend thoroughly washing the rocks etc?

Hello :) Alex is asking you to get the ich meds out of the tank because ich can easily be treating without harsh medications. The ingredients used in the majority of ich medications are very hard on your fish and on your cycle (some meds can crash your cycle). These medications can often do more harm than good, there is a better way to treat ich, which I am sure Alex will be by to walk you through once you have gotten clean water into the system :)

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OH wonderful!! I hate the use of these harsh medications. I am really an all natural girl at heart. OK tell me - do I replace all the water - take the fish out of the tank

and clean the tank or do I just replace say 80-90% and just add fresh water to this? Is there anything I need to get to prepare for the next step? Where I live its hard to get most

things except by ordering over the internet or going to Walmart....

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Alex - are you the one who has been helping me from the beginning? There seemed to be another person yesterday and I though his name was Alex...I'm confused.

Anyway - I am happy to have everyone get my fish happy and better. Do we think we can cure my black moor (Pika)? He's in really bad shape......

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OH wonderful!! I hate the use of these harsh medications. I am really an all natural girl at heart. OK tell me - do I replace all the water - take the fish out of the tank

and clean the tank or do I just replace say 80-90% and just add fresh water to this? Is there anything I need to get to prepare for the next step? Where I live its hard to get most

things except by ordering over the internet or going to Walmart....

:)

Please change as much water as you can while keeping the fish in the tank (drain it until the water is just above his dorsal fin). Then fill the tank up with clean water, then repeat this process again, this will get rid of the meds in the water. Please also empty any water that might be in your filters, and put carbon in your filters if you have it available to you (the carbon is not totally necessary, but will help to get any residual meds out of the tank) :)

Were you able to get parameters for your tank? If you have not yet will you please take a sample of the current tank water before you change it out and test it (or bring it to a pet store to be tested if you do not have a kit). Please provide exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and Ph :)

EDIT: you will need salt for the next step of treatment. Either aquarium salt or a salt from the grocery store that contains no additives or anti caking agents (Morton's canning and pickling salt is one that's widely available and good to use for this purpose). The grocery store salt will be cheaper than aquarium salt. Walmart usually carries the Morton's pickling and canning salt.

Edited by tithra

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Do you have an aquarium heater available to you?

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OK - I will get on it in about an hour. I have been giving them salt all along....and still have some - the good stuff for fish. I do have a heater - have never used it. I always add

Stress Coat to the water as I add fresh water. This is going to be a big job but I am so happy to do it and so happy you are guiding me through it. Thank you so much for taking

the time! Do you think we will be able to save my black moor?? His eye almost feels like its just going to pop off and...I really think he is blind in both eyes.

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OK - I will get on it in about an hour. I have been giving them salt all along....and still have some - the good stuff for fish. I do have a heater - have never used it. I always add

Stress Coat to the water as I add fresh water. This is going to be a big job but I am so happy to do it and so happy you are guiding me through it. Thank you so much for taking

the time! Do you think we will be able to save my black moor?? His eye almost feels like its just going to pop off and...I really think he is blind in both eyes.

Okay. It is not good to add salt on a regular basis. For goldfish, salt should only be used as a medication, using it regularly is not good for your fish and you run the risk of creating salt resistant pathogens, so that when you really need the salt as a med it won't work and then you have to resort to harsher medications. EDIT: I may have misunderstood. Do you mean you were using the salt for treatment of the fish?

I cannot weigh in about the eye personally. I will leave that for Alex to advise on :)

Did you get your water tested? Will you please take a sample to get tested or test yourself before you do the water change? It is important for us to have this information.

Edited by tithra

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I have used salt as a treatment but just every so often. I put a bunch in twice a few days ago....trying to help you know... I did test the water a few days ago. The PH was

fine and the ammonia was high but then I added some Ammonia Clear fizz tabs and it didn't change...then I tested my tap water and it also was in the yellow range...makes

me think that the ammonia test might be old?? I don't have a nitrate test but just called a friend to see if i could borrow it and an ammonia test too.... so should I wait now before

I change the water??

Now I realize I am in conversation with more than one person. thank you all! :)

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Please take a sample of the current water and test it (put it in a tupperware or whatever) then do the water changes. Please post exact numbers for ph ammonia nitrite and nitrate. We need to know the exact numbers because "fine" and "high" are subjective descriptors :) sorry to belabor the topic it's just important for us to know :) please post results for your tap as well if you can.

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If you are concerned about the ammonia test not working properly you can test a bottle of spring water (this should be 0) :)

I would advise agains using any sort of ammonia remover in the future such as the ammonia clear tabs. The best way to get rid of ammonia in the water is a water change. Plus some of those ammonia remover products bind the ammonia in a way that makes it unusable to the beneficial bacteria in your filter that make up your cycle. This can ultimately starve those bacteria which can mess with your cycle.

Hope this helps :) Keep us updated! But definitely do not wait for the water change, just keep a sample of your current water so that we can get those parameters :)

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I'm done - changed almost 50 gallons twice / added Stress Coat + with each change / clean fresh filters. Nice clear water! Next instructions please! :)

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Did you change the filter cartridge? or just rinse it?

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Milam, what other water conditioner do you use? The next time you buy some, don't buy StressCoat. It's really a marketing gimmick. Rather, just buy Seachem Prime, which really is one of the best, and cheapest, water conditioners out there.

There are a couple of things you will need to watch for in the coming weeks:

1. The ich medication has likely killed or damaged your biological filter. This means that in addition to ich, you will need to be vigilant about ammonia and nitrite levels and do water changes as necessary. You will definitely need a reliable test kit that measures ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH, such as the API freshwater master kit.

2. Salt is good to use for treatments, but salt must be used in a careful manner, which includes restriction of the amount of time you use salt, and exactly how much to use. You don't need to buy aquarium salt, which is really expensive. Go to a grocery store, look for Morton's Canning & Pickling salt. It comes in a 4 pound blue/green box. It's about $1.50 for each box. This is what I use, and it works fine for me :)

3. Would you be able to upload a video showing your entire set up and your black moor's eyes, as well as everyone else? We will go from there. Also, tell me where you are with water changes, exactly what is in the water, and the state of your filters, as tithra asked. Thanks.

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