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DesigNerd

Shubunkin with massive fin rot

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Zon was QT just a few weeks ago with the fish that had seizures, http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/97944-omg-seizures-help-please/page__st__0

Since then they both went back into the main tank and were doing well. After about a week or so I thought I saw flashing in one of the other fish so as preventative I added PraziPro to the tank. The next morning Zon started some major fin rot and he wasn't eating much mostly due to his weak nature.

I immediately QT Zon and gave the full 4 course treatment of Furan-2 which contains Nitrofurazone and Furazonlidone. Half way through the treatment I added Melafix (tea tree oil).

Since he was in a bucket it was really hard to analyze his fins. Just now I was about to put Zon into the maintank but noticed his fin rot is more severe. His right pectoral fin is clamped really tight. Dorsal fin has been clamped since the first treatment from the "OMG Seizures" episode from the link attached.

Ph is 6.6 on the test but the water was 7.6 before adding the medication and the color of the medication may be tinging the color of the results.

Ammonia 0

Nitrate 0

Nitrite 0

Warm room temp. about 72F.

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Upon realizing just how far the ph dropped during this posting we've added just a tiny touch of backing soda to this small plexiglass container he's in. Not sure to release him to the general pop, give him some more melafix, or put him back into QT with some other measures.

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Hello, could you please prepare and do a 3% salt dip? Then do 2 more, with one day rest in between. If you need more directions, let me know.

You will also want to put him in QT, and start with 0.1% salt, and then increasing to 0.3%, with 0.1% every 12 hours.

Please don't add any more meds at this time. I don't think it's bacterial.

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I do need specific direction in this. His water has had the regular mineral salt solution that the box recommends for goldfish this entire time, in all the main tank, the hospital tank, and his current/recent QT bucket. I think it's a .1% solution already.

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Oh I just noticed his eyes are sunken in too. Not the eyeballs themselves but where his cheeks would be, like a human. :(

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Oh I just noticed his eyes are sunken in too. Not the eyeballs themselves but where his cheeks would be, like a human. :(

Could you take pics that focus on this, please? Also, before we do any salt dips, could you check the gills and see what they look like? Thanks.

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Thank you! I understand the salt dip post that's pinned.

I'll be adding all new fresh water and very little of what he's currently sitting in during the moving process.

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IMG_20120322_201602.jpg

This one you can see how red his gills are.

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kinda shows the sunkin eyes. He's also lost a lot of weight from that initial bout of medication. He's eating at least!

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Strange angle, thought it might show the eyes better.

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I think he's really skinny, and all the time in the meds and recovering probably took a lot out of him.

Let's go with the salt and dip and salt bath as we've discussed. You're OK on that right?

5 minutes max. Take him out if he loses balances and can't right himself. Put him in a holding tank for 1-2 hours before moving him back. Prime at double dose in all the water. :)

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uh... so... .1% for an hour, .3% for 5 minutes, then .1% another hour??????

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No, no. I'm sorry:

- in a separate container (1-2 gallons is fine), make up a solution of 3% salt. That's 30 teaspoons/gallon. Once this solution is at room temp and a good pH (may be some baking soda added as well here), add fish. The max he can stay in there is five minutes. If before the 5 minutes are up he loses balances and cannot right himself, take him out immediately and place in a holding tank with fresh water (pH adjusted so that it's above 7) for about 1-2 hours. This is because he will be purging a lot, and we don't want all that waste to go into the regular tank/QT tank.

- put him back in QT tank. Start salting the tank to 0.1%. 12 hours later, bring it to 0.2%, and then 12 hours after than 0.3%. Make sure the pH stays in the 7.4 range in QT as well :)

The salt dips can be done every other day, for 3 times. I think you will want to keep him in 0.3% salt for at least a couple of weeks.

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Oh goodness poor baby. He looks so sad. I think the first thing he needs is some bubbles in that tank!!! There looks to be zero oxygen. Can you get some splash on the surface??? It's crucial.

Also the huge pH drop is a big worry and stressor.

Lack of oxygen and dropping pH are the 2 main contenders for top hanging too which he is doing.

The tank looks very small -is it temporary?

Great advice on the salt from Alex although I would try and aearate his water and sort this pH out ASAP first.

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Alex;

I should've taken video of that.

He flailed around for a bit and fell onto his side then repeated. After about 30 seconds he went limp so I moved in with a mini bowl to scoop him up. His tail was out limp but he couldn't move. I worried for a moment he was dead. Then put him into a bucket with no salt what so ever but prime and 7.4 ph (same ph as the dip) and he went to the bottom. I'm gonna keep an eye on him but I don't think he could handle the dip.

What should I do next? Try another dip or just forget it for now?

Trinket, Yes that was just to move him from qt to the main tank both with bubblers. I was afraid that if I used the net more of his fins would come off.

After the dip he went back into a simple bucket with only a bubbler, no filter for now.

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:( There is nothing worse tan watching a fish's fins rot away before your eyes! I had a similar problem with mine a while back. I hope he gets better soon. If you need a small temporary bubbler, they sell airstones and tubing at Walmart for really cheap. Good luck with everything.

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Hello,

That was his first dip. Some fish don't handle their first time in a salt dip very well, but 30 seconds is pretty decent. Let him stay in the holding tank to recover until he's swimming normally. Please make sure to have plenty of aeration in the holding tank as well. :)

You can give him another dip again on 3/24 and again on 3/26 :)

Please update in a bit to let us know how he does :)

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Trinket, Yes that was just to move him from qt to the main tank both with bubblers. I was afraid that if I used the net more of his fins would come off.

After the dip he went back into a simple bucket with only a bubbler, no filter for now.

Okay, that's good :) Keep watching the pH and trying to increase it. You may need to increase the frequency of adding the baking soda as well as the amount.

He is extra vulnerable to the acidity of a pH lower than 7 because of his loss of finnage.

I would seriously just focus on a dark tub now with higher stable pH and massive bubbles on the tank surface for a day or two.

You are in great hands with Alex here however!!

Hang in there :heart

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<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy230%2FEccoBell%2FFishies%2Fsick%2520fish%2FSick_Zon_after_first_dip-1.mp4">

Come to think about it, there is salts in his water but I don't know how much since it was only about a 1/4 cup of the dip water that transferred with him. Thank you all for your help and support!

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Looks good. It looks like he's begun to recover. After about 1-2 hours in the bucket, you could move him back and begin the incremental salting of the tank to 0.3%.

Let us know how he does tomorrow :)

Remember to watch the pH like a hawk and keep it in the 7.4 range :)

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Oh dear. My other tanks are filled up with babies. He's been in the bucket for 5 days now. :( I could add a plant in there with him. If it's just another few days I suppose it'll have to be okay.

I'll post video when I do another salt bath with him.

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Check your parameters daily please, and I think given that you have two buckets, could you please transfer him from bucket to bucket twice daily, so that he gets fresh water? Make sure pH matches and is in the 7.2-7.4 range, and matching temp.

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Gotchya!

My goodness, there is sooo much POOP!

New bucket, check! Ph 7.4, check! Temp, meh... close enough.

SO MUCH POOOOOOP!

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LOL. It's amazing how much they can poop! :rofl

How is he today, activity-level wise? What percentage salt are you at now?

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He is just bored in there but still moving around.

I completely forgot to add more salts, I was so busy yesterday. Is it too late to do so? I realize I don't know how many tsp per gallon to add for increasing to .2% and .3%

I lifted the bubbler out of the water and his scales kinda look a little open. My first thought was dropsy. I'll post video in a bit.

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Let's wait until the video before deciding on whether to add more salt or not.

The problem with really bad cases of fin rot is that it can become an internal infection :(

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Maybe his scales aren't raised and it could just be an issue with his slime coat. Hard for me to tell.

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<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy230%2FEccoBell%2Fzoncheck-up.mp4">

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He looks OK to me, but I am on my phone and couldn't see the pics as well.

Raising salt by 0.1% is to add 1 teaspoon salt/gallon.

For 0.3%, 3 teaspoons per gallon.

How are the fins?

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