PLEASE HELP! Black moor goldfish with swim bladder problems

[elli.olds 0]

Hello,

I have an approximately 1.5 year old black moor goldfish as well. He is in a 50 gallon tank with one lionhead goldfish, one ryukin, one shubunkin, and three plain old goldfish. I know it sounds like alot in one tank but I keep the water very clean and the goldfish are not too big for the tank yet. As they grow, I upgrade to larger tanks, so don't worry about them being overcrowded. Anyways, over the past month or so, my black moor has been stuck floating at the top of the tank. First he was just upright but stuck at the top, then for a few days he was stuck upside down, and now he has been stuck on one side or the other for the past few weeks. Thinking it was some problem with his swim bladder, I tried fasting him and then feeding shelled cooked peas, adding aquarium salt, and doing more frequent water changes, but nothing seemed to help. I brought my water in to be tested at the pet store since I don't have a test kit and they told me that everything was in the normal range except the ph which they said was very low. When I asked about my black moor, they told me to try treating the tank with triple sulfa because they thought he had a bacterial infection. As I don't have a hospital tank, I treated the entire 50 gallon tank twice but so far I haven't seen any improvement. I decided that since he wasn't responding to the bacterial medication, that probably wasn't the problem and I replaced the carbon in the filters. That was a few days ago. This morning when I woke up, he was still floating, but now a different fish in the tank appears to have popeye. She is just one of the regular goldies but both her eyes (more the left than the right) are beginning to bulge. I have never had any fish with popeye before so I am really not sure what to do. I read online that you can treat it with tetracycline (which I had some of) so I dosed the tank with some of that and removed the carbon again. So that is where I am at as of now. I am really at a loss of what else to do and I desperately need help. The black moor, is developing a white spot the side that sticks out of the water while he floats (I think it is because its drying out). I read that you can put vaseline on the part of the fish that is out of the water to prevent this, and I have tried to do so, but I cannot get the vaseline to actually stick to him since he is slippery. Please please help. I don't know what else to try and I can't take sitting here watching my fish suffer. THANK YOU.

[dnalex 13,633]

Would you please answer these questions?

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level

* Nitrite Level

* Nitrate level

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

* Water temperature?

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

* How often do you change the water and how much?

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

* How many fish in the tank and their size?

* What kind of water additives or conditioners?

* What do you feed your fish and how often?

* Any new fish added to the tank?

* Any medications added to the tank?

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Someone on the moderating team, could you please move this over to D&D?

[elli.olds 0]

Okay, as stated above, I do not have a test kit right now. I only have the information given to me from the test that my local pet store did (using test strips) which is that everything was in the normal range except the ph which they told me was off the charts low. The water temperature is 65 degrees Fahrenheit, the tank is 50 gallons and has been running for about 7 months but was not started from scratch. This is simply an upgrade from the smaller 30 gallon tank that the fish were in previously until they outgrew it. I transferred most of the water from the 30 gallon to the new 50 gallon and kept all of the filter sponges and everything to bring the beneficial bacteria. I am not sure of the types of the two filters, although one of them says "regent"on it. (The filters came with the tank which I bought used) They are some brand of power filters (similar to the whisper brand, they hang off the back) and they look to be the same size as the whisper filters for 50 gallon tanks. I do 25% water changes every week. The last water change was two days ago and it was 25%. There are seven fish in the tank. One black moor (appx 3.5 in), one lion head (appx 3 in), one calico ryukin (appx 4 in), one shubunkin (appx 5 in), and three regular goldfish (appx 4.5 in, 5 in, and 6 in). I use aquasafe plus tap water conditioner. I feed my fish tetrafin goldfish flakes once a day. I have not added any new fish recently. As stated previously, I used some triple sulfa medication last week in the tank (2 treatments). and then did a 25% water change as the package instructed. Yesterday I added some tetracycline to try and combat the case of popeye. The medication history is above in the first post, as well as other information that should have answered the majority of these questions anyways. I really do need some immediate help with this situation so please can someone give me some advice?

[ashlee18 1,169]

Unfortunately, without exact numbers for the tests, we cannot give advice. What the pet chains consider "normal" or "safe" is usually not.

The only thing I can recommend. Is a huge, 80% or larger water change. 25% weekly for 7 fish in a 55 is not enough.

[koko 14,365]

Could you get me photos or a video

[Trinket 108]

Hello and Welcome to kokos!!

Sorry to hear about your fish

Tetracylines can be dangerous in unstable pH so pH checking during treatment with that is really important.

In fact any meds in water where you don't know the ammonia levels can also be very toxic.

I agree that a picture or vid would be awesome. We want to help you!!

[elli.olds 0]

Okay, I will try to upload some pictures of both of the sick fish. At this point there aren't any stores open for me to get a test kit of my own at. I will try to make it over there tomorrow to get one. Right now though, is there anything else I can do? And, if a 55 gallon tank isn't big enough, what is? All of my fish have been happy and healthy for years and I haven't had any trouble with water quality until now.

[elli.olds 0]

oh my goodness I feel so stupid but I cannot for the life of me figure out how to upload any pictures or videos. help!!

[dnalex 13,633]

There is a link in my sig that shows you how

[elli.olds 0]

Thank you!! uploading them to photobucket now...

[elli.olds 0]

Okay here they are!

maybe...

[elli.olds 0]

okay i don't know if that worked, so here is the link to where you can see all of the pictures and videos.

http://s1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj603/elliolds/

[koko 14,365]

This fish has a very bad case of SBD (Swim bladder Disorder) Meaning its air sack in side isnt working right.

Nitrates could have caused this or to much air in the food.

The best thing right now is to see if you can get some peas. Make sure the peas are soft and you take the skin off it first. Also no salt if you use canned peas. I dont know if this is going to work, since the fish is really far gone.

The other option is a Medicated food.

Is this fish still eating?

[Chrissy_Bee 144]

Hi there,

Sorry to hear about your troubles, I've been there before!

It would really be helpful if you could buy a test kit, for various reasons. Of course the first is just to get exact readings, as Alex stated, they really will help us help you. But with the pH that low you'll also want to be monitoring it regularly to make sure you don't have a crash. And finally because the medications you have added will likely have killed the good bacteria in your tank and you may experience a cycle crash...which is detectible using a test kit. They are great things to have anyway if you are planning on keeping any type of aquarium long term.

[elli.olds 0]

Okay, I am going to do a big water change and then head up to the store to get a test kit. Unfortunately, I have already tried the shelled cooked peas and that hasn't helped one bit. The fish with sbd is still eating every day so maybe I should try the medicated food. What kind do you recommend? Also, what should I do about the fish with popeye? I have never had a fish with this before and I don't know what to use to treat it either. Her left eye is even more puffed out today so I really need some advice regarding this issue as well. Thank you!! I will post again as soon as I get back from the store with my test kit.

[Chrissy_Bee 144]

Be sure to get a drop test kit, the strips are much less accurate. Once you have the numbers we'll be able to help more with both issues

[elli.olds 0]

Oh I forgot, one more question. The fish with sbd is developing a white spot (I believe from getting dried out) on the side that sticks out of the water while he is floating . I heard that you can put vaseline on them to avoid this, but I have tried and can't get any on him because he is too slippery! Any ideas?

Okay I'll get the drop kind. Thanks!!

[Chrissy_Bee 144]

Yes apparently vasaline is fine, I've never used it myself so I'm not sure about application. You can also buy a product called bio bandage, some pet stores sell it.

[elli.olds 0]

Alright I'll look for some bio bandage while I'm at the store too. Talk to ya'll in a bit!

[Chrissy_Bee 144]

Good luck!

[elli.olds 0]

Alright. Had kind of a crazy day and wasn't able to get the drop kind of test kit.. I could only get the strip kind. I will go and get the drop kind tomorrow. But the readings I got were

KH: 0, GH: 15, pH:6, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 1. I don't have much experience with water testing so I'm not exactly sure what this means... Please let me know! Thanks!

[dnalex 13,633]

There is something very weird with the test resutls. I thought the nitrate value starts at 10 or 20...I'm not certain.

[Chrissy_Bee 144]

Yes a 1 for nitrate is odd, what is the scale on the strip test? (1-100? etc.)

You'll also want to test your ammonia, that's very important. The pH is very dangerously low. I'm guessing that your kit only goes as low as 6, which means it could be even lower than that. Can you test the pH out of your tap for us? The kH measures the hardness of your water and that tells what kind of buffering capacity it has (ever done chemistry? if not, no worries, it just means how well your water can hold a steady pH). With a kH of 0 you can easily have what's called a pH crash, which is very dangerous and often fatal. You will need to get a buffer for your water which stabilizes the kH at a safe level. Here's a good explanation of the topic http://www.kokosgold...h-problems-r205

I highly recommend a product called Buff it Up or you can add some crushed coral to your filter . Until you buy something though, you can use baking soda, but that is a short term solution.

I realize this doesn't directly address your fish's issues, but establishing good water quality is always the most important first step in dealing with goldfish problems

[elli.olds 0]

Okay, good information. As far as the nitrate values go, the kit goes from 0-200. The reason I put down 1 was because the color was just ever so slightly darker than what it showed for 0. Unfortunately the strips that I used don't test for ammonia.. weird I know. So I am going to get the drop kind of test today and test that also. So, if I were to use baking soda, (temporarily of course) how much should I add per gallon?

[dnalex 13,633]

Yes a 1 for nitrate is odd, what is the scale on the strip test? (1-100? etc.)

You'll also want to test your ammonia, that's very important. The pH is very dangerously low. I'm guessing that your kit only goes as low as 6, which means it could be even lower than that. Can you test the pH out of your tap for us? The kH measures the hardness of your water and that tells what kind of buffering capacity it has (ever done chemistry? if not, no worries, it just means how well your water can hold a steady pH). With a kH of 0 you can easily have what's called a pH crash, which is very dangerous and often fatal. You will need to get a buffer for your water which stabilizes the kH at a safe level. Here's a good explanation of the topic http://www.kokosgold...h-problems-r205

I highly recommend a product called Buff it Up or you can add some crushed coral to your filter . Until you buy something though, you can use baking soda, but that is a short term solution.

I realize this doesn't directly address your fish's issues, but establishing good water quality is always the most important first step in dealing with goldfish problems

Chrissy, I actually think you ARE addressing the fish's issues by addressing water quality

Another good buffer to use is Seachem's Gold Buffer, or the Alkaline Buffer

Okay, good information. As far as the nitrate values go, the kit goes from 0-200. The reason I put down 1 was because the color was just ever so slightly darker than what it showed for 0. Unfortunately the strips that I used don't test for ammonia.. weird I know. So I am going to get the drop kind of test today and test that also. So, if I were to use baking soda, (temporarily of course) how much should I add per gallon?

For future reference, I've found it useful to indicate results to be some like >0 but <10/20, for example. That way, we'll know that there is some nitrate in the tank, but not much

Add 1 teaspoon of baking soda, and then check 15 minutes later.

Edited March 24, 2012 by dnalex