Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
cathface

fraying tail

Recommended Posts


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level: 0.25
  • * Nitrite Level: 0
  • * Nitrate level: 5
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 6.6
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 7.6
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?: API freshwater master drop kit
  • * Water temperature?: 26ºC
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?: 35 litres/just under 10 gallons, been running for a month
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?: I don't remember the filter name, came with the tank. it does 200lph
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?: once a week, 30%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?: today, about 7 hours ago, 30%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?: one male betta, 1½ inches (not incl. tail), about 30 red cherry shrimp, 1 small nerite snail
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?: Seachem Prime, Sera Florena (liquid plant fert), API root tabs
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?: alternate between gel food and frozen bloodworms (he just spits out his betta pellets :( )
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?: 25 new cherry shrimp, yesterday
  • * Any medications added to the tank?: no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.: none
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?: new fraying on the caudal
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?: nope

just when I thought Draco's tail was getting better, a different part of it's started fraying again. :( the bit that he nibbled on in transit is growing back just fine, but other parts of his caudal seem to be going again. I didn't notice this until today, but after inspecting a photo I took of him on Wednesday, it seems to have frayed by then already. is it him nipping again, or is it something else? I've never actually seen him nip, and he's on the desk right next to my computer so I do see him all the time. his behaviour has not changed in any way since I got him, he's active and still blows his bubble nests. so far I've just done a water change to see if that'll help (usually do it weekly on Mondays).

just to clarify - the ammonia isn't at 0 because ammonia comes out of my tap at 0.25 due to being treated with chloramines, and it shouldn't affect Draco's fins because the Prime detoxifies it, right? and it can't be that he's being nipped by something else, considering cherry shrimp are peaceful and probably don't even have the capacity to do so haha. same goes for the snail. the tank is definitely cycled because I used mature media to seed my new filter, and I checked for a couple days after seeding the filter to make sure it was properly cycled before adding the betta. also, the pH drop shouldn't be an issue because I know that this happens, so I let the dechlorinated water age in a bucket until the pH has dropped before refilling the tank. I don't buffer it because I know that bettas, cherry shrimp, and all of my plants prefer slightly more acidic and soft water.

here's a couple of pictures, I've circled the new fraying in yellow:

SAM_9011.jpg

SAM_9013.jpg

is there anything I can do for him, other than keep up water changes? what could it be, if not nipping, which I doubt it is anyway because I've never seen him at it).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear you are having problems with fins! My male betta has not had his fins fully grown back for 9 months now. He had fin rot and ever since they grow, then some goes again, but it has never progressed back into rot. I also suspected fin nipping. The best thing is to keep them occupied, such as rearraging the tank every once and a while.

I have always found from keeping bettas that they are always very fragile and ammonia in the tank almost will certainly cause some rot. (this was before I descovered prime!) But as long as you prime, and have a good cycle, the ammonia should be removed within a few hours without doing any harm (from what I have found)

There is possible chance of it being rot, or just nipping, but it might help to start some salt baths just to seal the wounds up and prevent them from becoming infected. That way if it is nipping, you are doing your best to stop it from becoming fin rot.

I think the best you can do is just watch and see if it progresses, and if you want to, start some salt baths just once a day. It is hard to tell at this point, but usually if there are signs of healing there is a better chance of it just being nipping, or just an effect to the ammonia

Hope this helps a little!

Edited by Narny105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i've had the same problem before. i recommend using pond care's melafix. its an antibacterial remedy for koi and goldfish. i think it would work great for your betta. it uses natural tea tree oil to help promote rapid tissue healing and re-growth. plus it won't harm the biological filter, plants, snails or other invertebrates. i think its one of the best products on the market.

Edited by loudog253

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i've had the same problem before. i recommend using pond care's melafix. its an antibacterial remedy for koi and goldfish. i think it would work great for your betta. it uses natural tea tree oil to help promote rapid tissue healing and re-growth. plus it won't harm the biological filter, plants, snails or other invertebrates. i think its one of the best products on the market.

Sorry, melafix is an oil based medication. The problem with this is that bettas are labyrinth breathers so the oil can actually coat it which can lead to suffocation. Lots of people have used it with no problem, but I don't think it would be worth the risk :)

An alternative is aquarium salt, of even indian almond leaves which I have been experimenting with :)

Edited by Narny105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i've had the same problem before. i recommend using pond care's melafix. its an antibacterial remedy for koi and goldfish. i think it would work great for your betta. it uses natural tea tree oil to help promote rapid tissue healing and re-growth. plus it won't harm the biological filter, plants, snails or other invertebrates. i think its one of the best products on the market.

If you have not used a particular medication on a specific set of fish, I would suggest being very careful in making a suggestion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't feel like it is rot because there is not discolouration (which would be easily noticeable on the white parts). I've been avoiding salt baths because I'd hoped Draco would fix himself on his own, but now that another part of his tail is starting to fray, perhaps I should bathe him. could someone please give me step by step instructions as to how much salt to water, how long I should keep him in, etc? I don't want to salt my entire tank because I'm not sure if all of my plants, shrimp or snail would be able to handle it, and I'd rather not risk it. thank you for the help so far!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not know about a salt bath...I have read that bettas are sensitive to salt, and so when, for example, salting the tank, it is done at a much lower dosage than goldfish. ..

If it is caused by fin mipping/tail biting, it may help to rearrange the tank. Mine got much better after I doubled the number of the plants (though there is the occassional relapse). One other thought: though the bioload individually is low, all those new creature may give you a cycle bump--you may want to increase water changes for a bit. Once your tank is cycled up, you'll see 0 ammonia as the BBs will eat the ammonia in the tap water (I know you just changed the water before you tested so it was showing then--but just thinking you may want to keep an eye on it, as the BBs that came from your other tank are probably at a lower level given the low amount of ammonia a betta produces-and the plants take up ammonia, too, I believe).

Edited by spillie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I added more plants in yesterday so hopefully if it's nipping then he'll stop now. may buy a couple more tomorrow when I go to the garden centre.. there's no such thing as too many plants, right??

I thought it may have been the new shrimp causing some sort of cycle bump but I put the shrimp in on the Thursday, whereas the tail fraying already started on Wednesday. I just checked the ammonia again just now, and it's at <0.25, as in it's a very light green but not quite yellow. I think I would attribute this to the extra shrimp. I guess we can only wait until the bb's catch up...

do plants take up ammonia, as well as nitrates??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not a master at this (at all!), but from what I understand, the plants can utilize the nitrogen in ammonium (NH4), but it is not clear whether they can access the nitrogen to any degree in ammonia (NH3). There is, ratio-wise, more ammonium at a lower PH and more ammonia at the higher PH. So, the degree to which the plants can use the nitrogen depends on the ph in your tank. It seems they don't don't take up huge amounts, though, but do take up some.

(note: can find aquarium ammonia calculators online that can tell you the levels of each based on the ammonia level in the tank, temp, and PH)

Edit: Yhis also explains why ammonia is more toxic at higher PH values--because ammonia (NH3) is more toxic than ammonium (NH4) and the ratio of ammonia increases relative to ammonium at a higher PH

Edited by spillie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that was very interesting, thank you. :) learn something new every day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, bettas are more sensitive to high rates of salt.], and when doing salt baths or salting a tank, it is best not to prolong it for longer than 10 days

It will be more effective to do salt baths than to salt the tank itself. Generally, if the rot is caused by the water quality, you would know as there would be discolouration and usually blackening on the fins which tells you it is bacterial. If so, I would be treating the tank with a broad range antibiotic. I have always used salt baths mainly because I find that none of my bettas have done well with medications, and salt baths have always worked.

For salt baths, the ratio is 1 tsp of dissolved aquarium salt per 1 gallon of water (so just 0.1%) I usually do it in a 1 gallon container for convenience. As for goldies, the pH and temperature must be matched and the water needs to be conditioned. A good thing about salt baths, is that if it is actually fin rot then the salt will shock the bacteria, and increase the movement of solutes outside of the cell, which causes them to shrivel and die. Salting the tank and doing salt baths is not as effective at shocking the bacteria.

I put my bettas in the salt bath solution and let them swim around for 15 minutes twice a day (if the fin rot is bad). Otherwise, for a small suspected case like yours, I only bath once a day for 10 minutes until healing is seen and the fins have stopped rotting away. Salt should provide quick healing, and you should notice a difference within a few days.

I personally also think it is nipping, since fin rot usually develops quickly, but salt baths should help stop it turning into fin rot as it should promote quick healing and seal up the wounds!

If you did want to salt the tank, it is better not to go over 1tsp per 5 gallons :)

Hope this helps!

EDIT: I don't think that shrimp do well in salt at all. I do recall reading another thread about salt and shrimp, but I can't be absolutely sure. I don't think salting the tank will be needed at all, the salt baths should work wonders! Any chance of some more pics?

Edited by Narny105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yeah I don't think I'll do the whole tank haha, don't want to kill my colony of beloved shrimp! will try and give Draco a salt bath as per your instructions, thanks Narny. :) I'll take some pics soon, my camera ran out of battery so it's on the charge now, and my phone camera wouldn't give enough detail to show the fraying properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SAM_9030.jpg

here you go, circled it in yellow again. the raggedy bit above is from the nipping in transit that's healing. does he look okay otherwise?

also, what kind of salt should I be using here? aquarium salt? epsom salt? any salt that doesn't have additives in??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That doesn't look like rot at all as they are very smooth frays. I think he is just nipping, and it is usual especially when they are new since they are stressed and still adjusting to their new home. Treat with dissolved aquarium salt and see how he goes :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've added a mopani and moved the plants a bit, he seems to be enjoying swimming through them (particularly the dwarf four leaf clover, idk why??) so hopefully he won't nip anymore. I'm just about to give him his first salt bath - how long should I keep them up? a couple days? a week?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would keep doing them until there are obvious signs of healing just to be sure that there is no more progressive fin loss. Just don't progress over 10 days as you are at risk of doing internal damage from the salt :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay I'll keep a close watch on his fins, see if there's any healing action going on over the next few days. thanks again, Narny! you awesome. :thumb:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...