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HELP,PLEASE!


kukana d

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Thanks so much guys :heart My brain is fried :stars:wacko: Here are some pics of red and kirin in their eating basket=I still have to 'drop it in' over their heads-but whatever it takes! They def look better today-their colors are much better :heart

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And here's our set-up today:

The pond babies in the 50g (inside of my bath tub-for support)w/ .2% salt:

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And here's the pond-aka the purple soup. I put a tarp over it to try to retain any heat:

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And....The Soup...........20120315_7738.jpg?t=1331846055

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i would leave the metro in the water.. continue the MM's and increase salt to 0.3% as well as increase heat to 80F.. the heat during medicating is essential. i personally have treated parasitic infested fish with metro and salt in the water combined and got really good results.

I only put Metro in water if fish doesn't eat anymore otherwise I always feed with gel food. Agreed it's the only reliable treatment that I know of.

it has worked for my fish in the past where 1% of their bodyweight of medicated gelfood or medicated food is unable to be consumed, that i crush 400mg of metronidazole as fine as possible and add it to the water.. stir the surface a few times and it sinks to the bottom. whilst the fish do their usual forage, they consume the metro into their bodies. with the temp at 80F it stands a very good chance of the medicine to be digested and work just as good. fish are like kids, in certain ways, in certain situations, they can be tricked into eating what's good for them when they don't want it.

susan can give this a go if she's happy to do so.. here is a video of me crushing a tablet. now i know she already has it available in sugar granule size, but it will need to be finer than that as the medicine does not dissolve, so even in sugar granule size, the Metronidazole will still need to be crushed.

Nice job. Yeah, Susan should give it a go.

^ i neglected to mention, 400mg of crushed Metronidazole treats 10 US gallons of water.

Thanks Helen. I got a few questions, how long can it stay effective in the water? I remembered it is 8 hrs or 2 w/cs a day, correct? And another thing, how many medium size fish (~10cm) can we put in there using 400mg ? I hope these answers can assist Susan too.

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hi jeff,

this information i cannot answer as i don't know. all i know is when i qt with metro in the water, i do daily 100% water changes religiously. basically, i am redosing 100% every day with fresh medicine. depending on the severity of the case, my wc's are 100% twice daily and as is redosing.

with that dose, i've only ever needed to treat one fish at any one time, i don't see why you couldn't treat 2 fish in the 10 gallon with the 400mg if 100% daily waterchanges are carried out. the metronidazole can be used with salt. the highest i have salted whilst using the metronidazole in the water is 0.3% and still received great results.

so, to answer your question, i do not know how long metronidazole remains active in the water for. i've never needed to know given my routine for qt sees me changing water to the tune of 100% daily.

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Yes,exactly-PP solution. So the final is 189.25g to 1 gal?

That's a lot of stock solution you are making, it's for disinfecting the pond only, right? I hope you don't intend to use it for dosing your fish, which requires a different concentration, (pls refer pinned post from Frederica aka Captain Finders Goldfish on how to make the correct dosage and application).

Your fish are looking good as time passes and by looking at the edges of their fins, you've successfully knocked out those bacteria and no traces of white spots too. Now they are in stable condition. Next step is to get them stronger and start swimming around. That will reduce those red patches on the back. Keep up with your plan.

Yes, I'm concern about your 2 dropsied fish too. You can place these two together and treat as suggested by Helen earlier. There is this white ulcered fish, what are you planning to do with him. I think you should start treating him with O/A. If there are others with more serious body redness/sores you can place them together in O/A too. You should also consider separate the "healthy" ones along the way.

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hi jeff,

this information i cannot answer as i don't know. all i know is when i qt with metro in the water, i do daily 100% water changes religiously. basically, i am redosing 100% every day with fresh medicine. depending on the severity of the case, my wc's are 100% twice daily and as is redosing.

with that dose, i've only ever needed to treat one fish at any one time, i don't see why you couldn't treat 2 fish in the 10 gallon with the 400mg if 100% daily waterchanges are carried out. the metronidazole can be used with salt. the highest i have salted whilst using the metronidazole in the water is 0.3% and still received great results.

so, to answer your question, i do not know how long metronidazole remains active in the water for. i've never needed to know given my routine for qt sees me changing water to the tune of 100% daily.

I agreed 2 w/cs and a fresh dose of medication/salt is the way to go. I always use the smallest container (12L) for treatment, save me time and cost and most important of all effectiveness.

My question is not so much about space but about medication distribution among the fish. For 10G, I would say 6 medium size fish should be ok if you make 2 w/c a day. ( I based this on body lenght)

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Thanks Helen. I got a few questions, how long can it stay effective in the water? I remembered it is 8 hrs or 2 w/cs a day, correct? And another thing, how many medium size fish (~10cm) can we put in there using 400mg ? I hope these answers can assist Susan too.

I agreed 2 w/cs and a fresh dose of medication/salt is the way to go. I always use the smallest container (12L) for treatment, save me time and cost and most important of all effectiveness.

My question is not so much about space but about medication distribution among the fish. For 10G, I would say 6 medium size fish should be ok if you make 2 w/c a day. ( I based this on body lenght)

actually jeff, your question asks "how long does metronidazole stay effective in the water" my answer is i don't know or is irrelevant to me because of how i manage my qt.

your other question is "how many fish can we treat with 400mg of metronidazole" my answer is i wouldn't treat more than 2 fish with 400mg of metro in the water in a 10 gallon tank/tub.

the 400mg treats 10mg of water that i wouldn't expose more than 2 fish to this dose of metronidazole. given that metronidazole is treated by bodyweight, you cannot conclude without weighing the fish to just treat 6 medium sized fish in a 10gallon tub with 400mg of metronidazole.

the information that the book of Noga offers the following treatments for fish using metronidazole:

523edd93.jpg

book of Noga does not offer information on how long the drug metronidazole remains active when added directly to the water.

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good thing is, we're all learning.. i also think that given the good progress the fish are showing thanks to susan's dedication, there is no need to treat the fish with PP. i think the salt baths, salt, the metronidazole etc is enough exposure to medicines.

other than the fish that have dropsy, if she continues as is, she will see greater results sooner. i hope to see an update on the dropsy fish, at this stage, i am a little more concerned for their health than the others.

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Hi, Susan. I'm really glad to see some progress.

I hope you don't view what I am about to say as busting your chops, or giving a hard time, because that is most definitely not the case. There are a number things I would like to suggest/caution:

1. This progress is great, but there are weeks ahead of you where you will have to keep up with this routine.

2. Perfect water quality and maintenance is crucial, so plan accordingly.

3. Don't buy any more new fish for at least 6 months. This will give you much needed time to regroup and to nurse everyone back to perfect health. Remember that every time you add new fish to an already existing setup, it's a great big stress for the guys already there as well.

I hope to hear more and more of these positive news with each update :)

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I just need to double check something-when you say the TWO dropsied fish-you are including the Oranda I've been treating already in his own tub,right? The 1 i've included in pics from the beginning?I want to make sure i'm not missing something else you see. I'm worried about d. fish too-just filling pond,fish in 50 g 10hrs. now-need to get them dipped and back into the pond.

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Jeff & Helen,

Here are some additional information for you guys:

1. Metronidazole is one of those rock stable medications that will stick around for weeks, either in liquid or solid form. Tests have shown that >95% of the metronidazole in liquid solution (of various different types) remain active after 15 days. :)

2. In order for metronidazole to be effective, a fish needs to absorb AT MOST 5mg/fish. That's a half pound goldfish we are talking about right there lol. So, in a solution of 40mg metro/gallon, you have more than enough to treat several fish, especially if you are changing water twice daily or daily, which you should be doing anyway for all the reasons that you already know about.

Here is one of the papers looking into the stability of metronidazole compared to tetracycline, which is not stable at all.

http://www.temple.edu/pharmacy/directory/files/fassihi_StabilityofmetronidazoletetracyclineHClandfamotidine.pdf

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OMG you guys-I just did something REALLY STUPID and REALLY SCAREY!!!!!! I was putting 2 of 3 heaters back into the pond-they are plugged into an ext. cord that runs into my bedroom window. By HUGE mistake I plugged I plugged in the wrong one,and had turned it up to 80*. I was fixing a smoothie(I have not eaten) and some lights went out and I heard something-went to check,and I had plugged in the heater that was resting in 1 of my clothes drawers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The drawer full of clothes was ABLAZE :yikes :yikes :yikes OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDD! After I put it out-there was so much smoke in my bedroom that it was hard to see. Oh,what a STUPID mistake!!! I'm really too tired-BUT I still have to get the kids out of my shower.I think I will try to salt dip them a few at a time-what do you think(aside from that I should not leave heaters in my drawers and turn them up to 80!?)?

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OH NO susan! are you ok? was there much damage? i am so sorry! i can just imagine how exhausted you are!

i can't comment on the salt dips susan, i have no experience in them other than one measly time.. but yes, the oranda you initially showed us and the black telescope in picture 20 of the pond fish photoshoot you did.

those two are the pineconers i mention, they need to be qt'd on their own.

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Ok,everyone is back in the pond-except the black dropsied tele-he's in w/ the d. Oranda. They did fine w/ the dip-I did 5 of the little guys at a time and was able to keep a good eye on them. It's been a long day for all of us :thud Am refilling a couple of tubs so I can feed the inside babies then move them over to fresh water for the night :sleeping: You should see my house and my patio! Knocked over flower pots,mud-all tracked into the house-what a mess it is. Of course,I'm just glad it didn't burn down-I can always clean)between w/cs!). Any way,I'm going to go feed,then head to bed. Tomorrow I will worry about who needs to go where and be treated w/ what-I just could not today. Thank you everyone for your support and encouragement and oh so valuable knowledge :heart

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OH NO susan! are you ok? was there much damage? i am so sorry! i can just imagine how exhausted you are!

i can't comment on the salt dips susan, i have no experience in them other than one measly time.. but yes, the oranda you initially showed us and the black telescope in picture 20 of the pond fish photoshoot you did.

those two are the pineconers i mention, they need to be qt'd on their own.

Ok Helen,thanks for confirming that-they are together in a tub-little roommates :heart I'm glad to find I can do a few of them at a time-it will save much time over the next couple of days :) And yes,it's all fine-A burned out drawer,and several tops-many w/ tags still on them,ready for Spring and Summer-but that's just stuff. And 1 extremely fried heater! I figure I'll leave it in the kitchen sink overnight-don't want to wake to another blaze! And it smells very stink throughout the place,so I've got fans going. Until tomorrow(which is really today)..................Good night..........

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Hi, Susan. I'm really glad to see some progress.

I hope you don't view what I am about to say as busting your chops, or giving a hard time, because that is most definitely not the case. There are a number things I would like to suggest/caution:

1. This progress is great, but there are weeks ahead of you where you will have to keep up with this routine.

2. Perfect water quality and maintenance is crucial, so plan accordingly.

3. Don't buy any more new fish for at least 6 months. This will give you much needed time to regroup and to nurse everyone back to perfect health. Remember that every time you add new fish to an already existing setup, it's a great big stress for the guys already there as well.

I hope to hear more and more of these positive news with each update :)

No,it's fine Alex. Something tells me this experience is going to searrrrrrrrrr into my brain-one can only hope.............. :wacko:

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Jeff & Helen,

Here are some additional information for you guys:

1. Metronidazole is one of those rock stable medications that will stick around for weeks, either in liquid or solid form. Tests have shown that >95% of the metronidazole in liquid solution (of various different types) remain active after 15 days. :)

2. In order for metronidazole to be effective, a fish needs to absorb AT MOST 5mg/fish. That's a half pound goldfish we are talking about right there lol. So, in a solution of 40mg metro/gallon, you have more than enough to treat several fish, especially if you are changing water twice daily or daily, which you should be doing anyway for all the reasons that you already know about.

Here is one of the papers looking into the stability of metronidazole compared to tetracycline, which is not stable at all.

http://www.temple.ed...dfamotidine.pdf

Thanks Alex, copied that.

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