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Is it necessary to sterilize the tank and filter?Or will the metro/salt treatment take care of it?Anyone?

Is it necessary to sterilize the tank and filter?Or will the metro/salt treatment take care of it?Anyone?

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Does anyone kknow if it's necessary to sterilize the tank and filter?Or will the salt/metro treatmant take care of it?

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The salt should kill the ich in the tank and filter. I do not know about costia. Sorry :(

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Does anyone kknow if it's necessary to sterilize the tank and filter?Or will the salt/metro treatmant take care of it?

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Does anyone know if it's necessary to sterilize the tank and filter?Or will the salt/metro treatment take care of it?

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I have heard that costia is very contagious, so sterilizing might be necessary.

mj

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Thank you,MJ :) I've got the tank full of pp now. They seem a bit better after the salt dip/.3% tub/and metro in the water. The kirin ranchu was only able to tolerate 3 min in the bath-actually,I thought that had killed him,but he revived after I put him in the .3% tub. The blue ranchu is the only 1 that will readily eat-which amazes me b/c he was covered with 95% white by this morning(so the salt dips seemed our 1 and only chance-that's why I pushed them so far in it). The O w/ dropsy did not tolerate it at all-he immediately fell on his side,and there was NO sign of movement-I waited a few seconds,but had to remove him,and he also revived in the .3%.

Everyone in the pond seems fine,but I have raised the temp and added .1% salt. I have also ordered some Quinine Sulfate(over-nighted,of course!),as I'm told it is the only thing that will kill advanced ich+costia. Perhaps for use after this current treatment.

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Hi Lionchu,

I'm glad you posted, and agree that there is quite a bit more going on here than just the white spot. I am normally a big proponent of salt dips for stripping slime coat and to kill off a lot of things quickly. My concern here is that just by going with the one pic where you can see cysts on the eyes, I am going to guess that the gills are fried by this point. Do you think that they will survive the salt dip in such a state? I worry that it might push them over the edge. Having said that, I agree that things are at a very critical state, if not already too late.

Susan, were you able to feed them the food last night and today? Waterborne meds may be necessary if they are not eating, as said up above.

Agreed, this is very risky but what else can you do now that it's in such an advanced stage. If you don't apply corrective action effectively then she is going to loose them very soon. I normally would recommend salt dip at 5% concentration (1/2 kilo of salt to 10L of water) but I've already cut that to half (2.5%). For such sizes of fish 3.0% is the norm. Since they are very weak already, try to dip at least 30sec, it they "faint", just poke them with your finger and if they do not respond, remove and rinse with fresh water quickly otherwise con't until they "faint" a third time, then remove and rinse. Place into small QT tank (3g to 5gal most ideal) with 0.3% salt and air stone only, water change 100% at least daily or twice daily if necessary.(follow bucket to bucket method). Do not use heater at this point as it make w/c difficult and shock your fish. (die faster)

If those are infact ich, then they have burrowed very deeply into the tissues, normal ich is like covered with fine grain size of salt. (nothing will kill them at this stage, except when they are free swimming). It may be necessary to increase salt to 0.5% to counter other parasites like Costia. I'm afraid between attacking parasites and bacteria/protozoan, I would take out those parasites first, then the bacteria as too much additives will also tip them over sooner.

Susan, if they are still eating, try and mix some gel food with Metronidazole. My formula : Crush 1/2 tab (200mg tab) as finely as you can, then use 20% of powder to your gel food, add a few drops of water and mix throughly. Then cut to bite size and freeze for about 5 mins. Feed 3x per day for the first 3 days, then once for a total of 10 days. ie.3days (3x)+7days(1x)

Please try this. Good luck.

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I was just about to suggest a salt dip too. I would worry maybe about using PP with sensitive gills. But if anything, I think the salt will help clean out all the excess mucus which must be stuck in the gills by now. SHould help them.

Yes, PP should be the first choice in very early stage but now it has passed the window of opportunity. Salt dips are more appropriate now.

1gal is about 4liters. So 2.5% means 25grams per liter. So 25x4 is 100grams :)

Very good, Frederica.

Thanks,Fede! I should put them into a different tank as they come out,right? What should I do about the pond? Do you think just the .3% would be enough for them? I need to go examine the fish out there. The other thing about the pond is that the manufacturer says it's 195g,BUT when measured it comes out to 300+ gallons! the MM will be here by 1030am tomorrow. Fede,what a/b would you use? I've heard from someone else who said his fish from this source arrived w/ ich and costia! There is SOOOOO much info-what could be going on,but I can start w/ the dips and go from there. Is it ok to dip multiple fish into the same batch of the salt dip?

Susan, I would consider doing a PP bomb on your pond but first can I see a pic of your pond and some info please. Don't worry about Costia as the salt dip and bath of 0.3-0.5% concentration will take care of them.

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Susan, I would consider doing a PP bomb on your pond but first can I see a pic of your pond and some info please. Don't worry about Costia as the salt dip and bath of 0.3-0.5% concentration will take care of them.

Susan, could you post the dimensions and perhaps a full-view pic of the pond? Thanks. It's so strange that the manufacturer would err on 100+ gallons.

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Lionchu,are you saying I shouldn't feed these 3 the MM? I made some gel last night w/ metro powder-don't know how pure the powder is. I added 1.1g metro to 109g food-how does that sound? I have more food w/o meds and more metro-I can make more-then I can add some garlic,b/c the blue ranchu is the only 1 that really eats. What should I do? Anyone know if they sell metro tabs?Or is it a script? 20% would be 20g weighted meds to 100g food,correct

Lionchu,I was told by the pharmacy that Quinine Sulfate would take care of ich+costia-any thoughts(it will arrive Wed.)

I will see if I can get any photos of the pond-since it's dark out there.

Lionchu,I'm doing the salt dips 3 consecutive days,right? The metro in the water is ok,right?

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Susan, I would consider doing a PP bomb on your pond but first can I see a pic of your pond and some info please. Don't worry about Costia as the salt dip and bath of 0.3-0.5% concentration will take care of them.

Susan, could you post the dimensions and perhaps a full-view pic of the pond? Thanks. It's so strange that the manufacturer would err on 100+ gallons.

I'm looking for a pond now and I came across the same thing, they listed the capacity wrongly in their catalogue.

Lionchu,are you saying I shouldn't feed these 3 the MM? I made some gel last night w/ metro powder-don't know how pure the powder is. I added 1.1g metro to 109g food-how does that sound? I have more food w/o meds and more metro-I can make more-then I can add some garlic,b/c the blue ranchu is the only 1 that really eats. What should I do? Anyone know if they sell metro tabs?Or is it a script? 20% would be 20g weighted meds to 100g food,correct

Lionchu,I was told by the pharmacy that Quinine Sulfate would take care of ich+costia-any thoughts(it will arrive Wed.)

I will see if I can get any photos of the pond-since it's dark out there.

Lionchu,I'm doing the salt dips 3 consecutive days,right? The metro in the water is ok,right?

Use what you have on hand, it shouldn't matter. What I meant 20% was by quantity not by weight. I don't go by weight it (althought I have a very accurate electronic scale that reads 0.1g intervals). When they start to chew the food, a lot of it will be expelled through the gills anyway.

Sorry I'm not familiar with QS, salt will take care of those Ich and Costia if administer correctly. Salt at lower dosage of 0.3% will make Costia more resistant. They are also salt resistant strain out there, that's why I recommended 0.5% earlier.

Yes, salt dips 3x and Metro, water change daily 100% (not partial, follow bucket to bucket method)

I just want to make sure what pond you got there b4 saying anything.

Edited by lionchu

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Ok,dimensions are 66"L(i/d)x24"h(o/d)x43.5"w(i/d)

Here are the pics(best I could do at night!):

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20120312_7608-1.jpg?t=1331611205

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Thanks Susan. Based on your dimensions, your pond capacity is 296G max. and with your current water level you should have about 250G of water now. You've taken internal dimensions, right??? Those pics are excellent. I can see lots of empty pots and some other toys which I do not think it's necessary at this point. It's very congested and mind me for saying unsightly too. I would recommend the following:

1) Remove everything inside.

2) Drain out water, scrub with just water and let it stand dry for a few days. (don't be afraid, there is no need to use any chemical)

3) Clean out the canister, filter materials, hoses and pumps with bleach and start cycle again.

4) This type of filter system is not suitable for GF because of it's enclosure (it's similar function as those Ehiem Pro 3 of yours), poor gas exchange and also easily traps dirt and form dead zones, a breeding ground for bad bacteria. You can overcome this by running the return ove a stack (3x) of windows flower troughs fill with volcanic rocks alone and let the water drip down like a bakki shower system. For ponds, the better systems are Bakki shower,Trickle and overhead (OHF), all are proven by experts from koi circles.There are plenty of examples on YouTube.

You can slowly add pots of plants later on and if you want to disinfect especially against snails just dip the whole pot into a PP solution, say >10ppm for 15mins

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Just stopping by to see how things are going??Hope all is going well with treating the sick babies :)

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OMGoodness-in the midst of taking a scrape!!! (1st x!) Can anyone tell me if there's something I can do to keep a viable sample-ie,a petri dish or something?

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Ok,the only thing I saw were the spinning cilia circles-ich,and I did not see them in their other state.I'm thinking this has more to do w/ me having not touched a microscope in 30+ years :doh11: Could it be just ich and secondary bacterial problems?

2nd salt dip complete,and the white is disappearing from the blue guy.They do seem a tad better. Blue is still the only 1 I saw eat.I thought the kirin inhaled some-but this may have been wishful thinking on my part. All others got the MM. Do you need to feed them 2x/day w/ MM?

Lionchu,I will have to address the pond filtration and aesthetics later- it's taking everything I have to do this.On top of another day of this,I had to clean and w/c the Veil tank today(I used a diff python for them and wore gloves). My hope is that the Quinine Sulfate will be enough out there. I did not add any more than the .1% salt out there b/c it is not compatible w/ the QS(actually,this Pharmacy is against salt-not sure about compatibility),so I still need to get that out. Will 2 50% w/cs accomplish ridding it? I also hope to use the QS in the 3 smaller tanks that I used the same python on as these guys.What about your PP bomb idea? Was that to be w/o the fish in it? I don't have anywhere to put all those pond fish to let it dry out for a couple of days.I think I have a 50g bin,but I would think only a few hours w/ that. I am open to your filter idea-but not today.

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I can't help much - as you have some great advice from people. In order to help your fish I'd try to follow it the best you can.

Also, I think in terms of the aesthetics, Lionchu means to remove all the pots/toys/stuff because sometimes those things can collect nasties that can harm your fish. It does look quite congested in there.

Regarding the PP Bomb..... yes, you would have to remove the fish.

Hope everything continues to improve!

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I don't have anything to contribute about medications, but I can make a suggestion about the logistics of treating your pond fish. I wouldn't try to treat the fish in the pond. Rather I'd go shopping and find a couple of kiddie wading pools 4-5 feet in diameter and use these to treat the pond fish. I'd collect pond water coming out of the pond to half fill pool 1, and fill pool 2 about 1/3. That should get the water down to the point that you can catch the fish. Then fill the two pools with dechlorinated tap water. Salt pool 1 to 0.1% and pool 2 to 0.3%.

Now take everything out of the pond so you can catch the fish. You probably have a preferred way of catching your fish, but I'll share mine. I have one of those little plastic "critter carrier" tanks from the pet store. I use this to scoop the fish from the water, herding them in with a net if necessary. This allows me to examine each fish before transferring it. However you catch the fish, make sure you examine each one for symptoms. Then put the fish in pool 1. After twelve hours, increase the salt in pool 1 to 0.2%. Twelve hours later, transfer the fish to pool 2, empty and rinse pool 1 and fill it with tap water at 0.3% salt. After this, you continue the process of transferring the fish to a clean pool and cleaning up the old pool. How often you do this depends on your parameters. If you feed lightly, you should be able to go 2 or 3 days.

I certainly wouldn't destroy the ecosystem of an established pond if none of the fish had symptoms. I probably wouldn't even if some of them did, but that's your call. I'd transfer the plants to another container, scrub up and disinfect any ornaments, empty the pond, rinse it well, and refill it with dechlorinated water. I'd give the filter a good cleaning, and disinfect the filter case and the tubing, but I'd just rinse the filter media well, then I'd let the the filter run, adding a little ammonia to the pond water to keep the cycle. Before I returned the fish, I'd do another complete water change and rinse.

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Ok,I just took some pics in the tub. The water is a tad murky from the salt and slime coat(I'm fixing another tub for them now),and the lighting wasn't great,but you can see. The blue ranchu looks MUCH better-you would not believe how bad he looked yesterday morning! I wanted to snap a pic so I could show you,but it seemed it would waste precious time.He looked like he had been left out in a cold blizzard for a very long time:(

At the end I'll include 2 pics I took of him the night before that-then you can still see how much better he looks.

Here is the kirin ranchu-she only lasted 3 min again today in the salt dip-no matter how many times I poked!

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This guy is still very red on his back,and floats at the top.

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And here's Blue.........

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And here's what poor Blue looked like 2 nights ago:

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And here's the Oranda-he's still puffy,but I don't notice his scales standing out as much(he's on the 20% metro food)

20120313_7640.jpg?t=1331696821

20120313_7642.jpg?t=1331696879

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The red ones back is red because it's being exposed to air. This happened to one of my floaty fish years ago, looks exactly the same.

[edit] Glad the blue one is better, from 2 days ago it had quite an advanced case.

Edited by Auryn

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:doh11: Could it be just ich and secondary bacterial problems?

Parasites infestation always accompanied by bacteria problems, that's why I always recomemd to take out the parasites first and by large w/c you can keep the bacteria at bay for the time being and treat them secondary.

2nd salt dip complete,and the white is disappearing from the blue guy.They do seem a tad better. Blue is still the only 1 I saw eat.I thought the kirin inhaled some-but this may have been wishful thinking on my part. All others got the MM. Do you need to feed them 2x/day w/ MM?

Looks like it's working if they are eating. Did you salt dip the Kirin? If any fish cannot tolerate the 2.5% concentration, just reduce it to 1.5%. (less than that will not be that effective but it's still better than doing nothing)....Your call.

Lionchu,I will have to address the pond filtration and aesthetics later- it's taking everything I have to do this.On top of another day of this,I had to clean and w/c the Veil tank today(I used a diff python for them and wore gloves). My hope is that the Quinine Sulfate will be enough out there. I did not add any more than the .1% salt out there b/c it is not compatible w/ the QS(actually,this Pharmacy is against salt-not sure about compatibility),so I still need to get that out. Will 2 50% w/cs accomplish ridding it? I also hope to use the QS in the 3 smaller tanks that I used the same python on as these guys.What about your PP bomb idea? Was that to be w/o the fish in it? I don't have anywhere to put all those pond fish to let it dry out for a couple of days.I think I have a 50g bin,but I would think only a few hours w/ that. I am open to your filter idea-but not today.

When doing PP bomb it's better not to have fish in there unless it's really neccesary. It's not so straight forward. You pratically have to sit beside the pond and monitor the purple hue and to keep adding the PP inorder to maintain the purple color for a few hrs.

If you can take your fish out, place them in the 50g bin then perhaps you just use bleach and clean all the internal surfaces, hoses pumps and the main filter. Then you can have everything running again in a few hrs. Don't forget you have to start cycling again.

Please remove everything else that are not necessary in your pond. Yes, future improvement on filtration can wait for now. It's just that I thought I better let you know about those negatives.

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They look a lot better now, just keep up with your plan and stick to it. Please maintain very good water quality for the fin rot to improve. Salt at 0.3%. If you have acriflavine it will help speed up their tissues growth and counter the external bacteria too..Hope to hear more improvements.

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Yes,the kirin did get dipped for 3 min-is that enough? Would it be better @ 1.5 for 5 min? And no more than 3 salt dips,correct?

I do have acriflavine-it is compatible w/ .3% salt? Would Melafix be better,or different purposes?

The blue 1 is the only 1 I see actually eat-perhaps I can start feeding them in a basket to get a better idea.

I just finished dipping the Oranda @ 1.5 for 5 min,and he did fine-up and swimming around already :) Shall I do 2 more on him since he was only in the 2.5 for a few seconds yesterday? Or just give him 1 more?

I will continue with the 2x/day tub changes. How long am I going to maintain .3% salt for them?

I need to sleep on the exact steps for the pond. I can certainly take out all the stuff-that's no problem. Can I possibly toss all the soft media(I have replacements-it's about time anyway..),but retain the rocks? If I can do that,I can maybe squeeze some of the pads from the 170g,or just add 1 and hopefully maintain a cycle out there?

Wouldn't a PP nuke on the pond,empty filter housing,and hosing only have to go on for about 4 hrs.? I could put the fish in the 50g for that long-then not have to worry about whether I have gotten rid of all of the bleach. I could maybe add some HP,empty,rinse with warm/hot water-then be ready to go? What do you think? But would I treat the fish while they're in the bin? With PP? How much? Most of the fish out there are pretty small-nothing like these guys. Would I then maintain .3% salt out there? I started those guys on MM today also.

Edit: Should I keep these guys on the metro 20% gel or feed them MM? MM are not very enticing for them,are they?

Edited by kukana

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