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Goldfish Seizures?


Aluyasha

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I own two 5-6 inch singletail goldfish who are living in a 29g at the moment (waiting for their new 50g to cycle).

Well the one that I rescued from severe neglect and who came in the 29g, I wrote his story in the horror stories section: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/97615-my-comet-goldfish-rescue/page__fromsearch__1

He seems to be having what looks like seizures at least once a day. For the past few days I have been treating them for flukes/parasites because, not only was he in very bad condition when I got him, but they appear to have the symptoms of it. Yawning alot, gulping air for long periods, bumping up against eachother and the sides of the tank, ect..

For the most part they seemed healthy, still eating and pooping fine, pecking at rocks and playing with eachother, no visible wounds or bumps or anything like that, no fin tears, they even try to nibble through the glass at food that I am cooking (they are one the kitchen counter).

When he has these "seizures" he will just suddenly stop what he is doing and twitch so rapidly over his whole body that it is obvious he has no control over it, he then gets scared and tries to swim around fast while twitching. After about a minute he kind of goes limp and sits there breathing heavily through his mouth, it takes him about 5-10 minutes to calm down.

Could it be from his neglect? (please read my rescue post). Is it really flukes/parasites? Any help would be welcomed. I have owned fish for a long time but these are my first goldfish and I know they have some different issues compared to tropical fish.

Thank you. I will try to answer any questions you may have.

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Could you please answer these questions?

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level

* Nitrite Level

* Nitrate level

* Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

* Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

* Water temperature?

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

* How often do you change the water and how much?

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

* How many fish in the tank and their size?

* What kind of water additives or conditioners?

* What do you feed your fish and how often?

* Any new fish added to the tank?

* Any medications added to the tank?

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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I own two 5-6 inch singletail goldfish who are living in a 29g at the moment (waiting for their new 50g to cycle).

Well the one that I rescued from severe neglect and who came in the 29g, I wrote his story in the horror stories section: http://www.kokosgold...__fromsearch__1

He seems to be having what looks like seizures at least once a day. For the past few days I have been treating them for flukes/parasites because, not only was he in very bad condition when I got him, but they appear to have the symptoms of it. Yawning alot, gulping air for long periods, bumping up against eachother and the sides of the tank, ect..

For the most part they seemed healthy, still eating and pooping fine, pecking at rocks and playing with eachother, no visible wounds or bumps or anything like that, no fin tears, they even try to nibble through the glass at food that I am cooking (they are one the kitchen counter).

When he has these "seizures" he will just suddenly stop what he is doing and twitch so rapidly over his whole body that it is obvious he has no control over it, he then gets scared and tries to swim around fast while twitching. After about a minute he kind of goes limp and sits there breathing heavily through his mouth, it takes him about 5-10 minutes to calm down.

Could it be from his neglect? (please read my rescue post). Is it really flukes/parasites? Any help would be welcomed. I have owned fish for a long time but these are my first goldfish and I know they have some different issues compared to tropical fish.

Thank you. I will try to answer any questions you may have.

Yes, from what I have found out, tropical fish are WAAY different then goldfish :)

In order for people to give you accurate advice, could you please fill in the questions at the top of the page? Also what fluke and tapeworm treatment are you using and what does it contain? how much are you putting in?

Having tanks in the kitchen is not usually a good idea. This is because fumes from cooking get into the tank and can actually foul the water or could be causing the water to become a little toxic. Cooking sprays will foul the water as I have found earlier in my fish-keeping experience, so it is best to get the tank away from any fumes produced by cooking. Sorry I can't be of more help than this. I am also a new goldfish owner and more experienced in tropical diseases and causes, but I decided I would drop in my 2 cents to try and help :)

Hope you get the problem solved! Good luck!

Edited by Narny105
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I own two 5-6 inch singletail goldfish who are living in a 29g at the moment (waiting for their new 50g to cycle).

Well the one that I rescued from severe neglect and who came in the 29g, I wrote his story in the horror stories section: http://www.kokosgold...__fromsearch__1

He seems to be having what looks like seizures at least once a day. For the past few days I have been treating them for flukes/parasites because, not only was he in very bad condition when I got him, but they appear to have the symptoms of it. Yawning alot, gulping air for long periods, bumping up against eachother and the sides of the tank, ect..

For the most part they seemed healthy, still eating and pooping fine, pecking at rocks and playing with eachother, no visible wounds or bumps or anything like that, no fin tears, they even try to nibble through the glass at food that I am cooking (they are one the kitchen counter).

When he has these "seizures" he will just suddenly stop what he is doing and twitch so rapidly over his whole body that it is obvious he has no control over it, he then gets scared and tries to swim around fast while twitching. After about a minute he kind of goes limp and sits there breathing heavily through his mouth, it takes him about 5-10 minutes to calm down.

Could it be from his neglect? (please read my rescue post). Is it really flukes/parasites? Any help would be welcomed. I have owned fish for a long time but these are my first goldfish and I know they have some different issues compared to tropical fish.

Thank you. I will try to answer any questions you may have.

Yes, from what I have found out, tropical fish are WAAY different then goldfish :)

In order for people to give you accurate advice, could you please fill in the questions at the top of the page? Also what fluke and tapeworm treatment are you using and what does it contain? how much are you putting in?

Having tanks in the kitchen is not usually a good idea. This is because fumes from cooking get into the tank and can actually foul the water or could be causing the water to become a little toxic. Cooking sprays will foul the water as I have found earlier in my fish-keeping experience, so it is best to get the tank away from any fumes produced by cooking. Sorry I can't be of more help than this. I am also a new goldfish owner and more experienced in tropical diseases and causes, but I decided I would drop in my 2 cents to try and help :)

Hope you get the problem solved! Good luck!

Ok, I will try to fill out the question list. :)

He is not exactlly in the kitchen, my house is an open setup with the counter dividing the kitchen and living room, they are not close to the oven and I do not use cooking spray or non-stick pans. I have had fish on the counter before, I also have my hamster up there sometimes. :)

As for the meds, I called every single petstore in my area and none had goldfish meds for parasites, I eventually got a hold of a fish store that is going out of business (due to her illness) and she happened to have one bottle of meds in the back. I decided to go for it because it was the only thing I could find.

It is made by Jungle brand and is just called Goldfish Care, Parasite Care. It looks like pink poprocks. It's instuctions are "before using, change 25% of the water. Use 1 tsp to 5 gallons of water. Remove activated carbon during use. If needed, safetly treat up to three times-wait 6 days between treatments. Change 25% of the water before each treatment." I am supposed to give him another dose tomorrow. And I pre mixed it in a jug before adding.

Though he has had these seizure things before I gave him meds.

Edited by Aluyasha
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Sorry if there are a lot of mystakes...typing on my phone. If he is having seazures i would think there is.something wrong internally. I am no expert but i will do some reasearch today and see what i can find out. I the meantime i would do a large water change to see if that promotes.any change

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Are you sure they are actual seizures? Goldfish who have parasites will usually twitch around as if trying to get them off which can look like they are having actual neurological seizures. Is there any rubbing against rocks or any ornaments in the tanks? If you can, answer those questions and try to add photos/ videos if possible. Hopefully he won't have another one but it is best to get as much detail on what is happening to get a thorough answer and help

It also may be a water quality issue. At any sign of illness it is always best to do a large water change. Preferable 50%, but 80% will be a lot more beneficial for him. Keep up with the medication. I have never heard of that medication. Change more than 25% each water change after treatment. I would be changing no less than 50% then adding the medication back in for the recommended period. What is the active constituent in the medication?

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Most of us use Prazipro. Fish specialty stores often have it, although the big box pet storesmau not. You can usually get a better deal on line. Here is one example of a source: http://www.ebay.com/...4#ht_2215wt_821

If you call the pet stores again and ask for it by name, you might have better luck. Employees can look up a name of a product, but may not know it by function.

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@Shakaho: I did ask for prazipro by name, even at my local fish stores. None of them knew what it was. Most did not even have any meds labled for goldfish.

I know of the option of ordering it online, the reason I got the Jungle meds was because I was not sure if they would make it until the prazi arrived in the mail.

@Narny: He is not rubbing up against things or even swimming when he has them. He floats in one place and his whole body twitches very fast, all his fins twitch quickly aswell but at different speeds and times, as if he cannot control it. He also opens and closes his mouth at lighting speed over and over during it. Then he seems to pass out and float lifelessly to the bottom. After about a minute he jerks awake and starts slowly swimming around gasping for air with his dorsal fin clamped down.

Both my brother-in-law and my stepdad have seizures, so I know what it looks like in people. I have also had cats and mice that have had seizures and it really doea look like Pacer is having seizures. I tried looking videos up online of fish supposedly having seizures but none of them looked like what Pacer does.

Also, his tankmate Pushy is acting totally normal. She even tries to comfort him about it. I was wondering if the pennies in his tank could have caused this. (if you read my rescue post, when I got him he had lived at least a month in an inch of water with about 8 pennies disintegrating into the water, most of them were half disintegrated and turning green.)

The meds say, Active ingredients: Sodium Chloride, Trichlorfon, and Diflubenzuron.

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Trichlorfon will get rid of any flukes in the water as well as hook worms and is very good at doing so. I treat my tropical tanks with 20g of trichlorfon if I have any flukes or external parasites, so if they are causing it, he may get better towards the end of the treatment. Metal in the tank will make the water toxic and will affect the fish. Not sure what your pennies are made of, so that would help! ( I don't have pennies where I live, but I assume they would have some copper in them?) But it is an option to what is causing the seizures. The diflubenzuron should actually help a little internally since it is used as an internal insecticide (but not the best as it sounds like the medication you have is for external issues, so it may not have a suffice amount in it to actually make much of a difference). I agree with getting the prazi. It should be available in liquid form where you live and you will be able to get it online. Any sign of swelling around the eyes or body? I Think it would be best to QT him from the tank just to rule out any water quality issues that may be causing it and treating him in there.

I can't really be of much help here, I have never experienced seizures and I don't know what could cause them other than irritation causing fast twitching, so I will forward this link to a few people who can be of great help! They will also ask for you to fill in the questions at the top of the page, so make sure to get that done :) Without those questions answered, no one can be of much help here

Edited by Narny105
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Can't edit my post, so I will say in another post! :P If he was exposed to metal (like you said) and it has disintegrated in the water, there is a good chance he has got heavy metal poisoning. Sadly, heavy metal poisoning is actually in the blood, so I have no clue how to treat this or if you can treat this on a superstition. Though, heavy metal poisoning will have neurological symptoms which can cause seizures. I would add some aquarium salt to the water (dissolved and conditioned) I would be adding three teaspoons (5ml) of salt and replacing what you remove through water changes. Keep the aquarium salt in the tank for 10 days and see if that also helps- salt does many things and if it is parasitic then it will aid in treatment for this as well! The salt will also lower the stress on your fish as it will aid with breathing and improve his gill function. This won't help if the cause is metal poisoning, but in general it will help him a little and is never a bad thing to add unless you have swelling.

Any chance you could possibly get him into an aquarium specialist vet? They can run tests for him to find out the cause and will be able to test for metal poisoning. I know this may be a little far-fetched but give some of your local vets a call to see if they have a fish specialist on hand. It is quite expensive, but may be worth your while

If your water was the cause, you can get some test kits as you can test if there is actually still metals in the water. If you do have heavy metals in your water, you can remove it by utilising a reverse osmosis system- so basically adding carbon to your filter or actually buying specific chemicals to treat your water with- this is just a little fact in case you ever suscpect water to be the cause, but a good water conditioner will get rid of these..

Edited by Narny105
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First, I do not have a water test kit. And I do not have the money for one until next friday, so I took a water sample to the pet store to be tested. The type of tester they had did not give out numbers, it was the strip kind that you compare colors to the chart. The strip read that I have all normal levels, even ammonia, but it also said my water is kinda hard. Could hard water make him like this? How do I make my water softer?

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Strips, I do not know the brand.

* Water temperature? About 72 degrees.

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29g, running since Feb 1st.

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon made for a 30-35g.

* How often do you change the water and how much? I do a 20%-30% water change every friday and siphon on teusdays.

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? This friday, about 4 days ago. I changed 30%.

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 6inch comet and 1 5-6inch common.

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? I use Aquasafe for goldfish.

* What do you feed your fish and how often? I feed them every morning, around 6 pellets all together. A local pond goldfish brand pellets.

* Any new fish added to the tank? No.

* Any medications added to the tank? Jungle parasite meds were added 6 days ago.

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. 6 days ago was my first use of meds. I did give Pacer some stress coat and stress zyme when I first got him. I have not added salt yet. I do not know much about either of their history.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No, visibly they both look healthy.

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Yawning alot, gulping air at surface, and Pacer's seizure things.

Edited by Aluyasha
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Hi! Sorry Pacer isn't feeling well.

I'm glad you were able to go to the store and get your water tested, unfortunately it is really important for us to have exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and Ph. Test strips do give numbers, but you will have to specifically ask for numbers at the pet store otherwise they will just tell you everything is fine and send you on your way (if you did ask and they were not able to give them, it is likely the tester was not experienced and did not know what they were doing).

The issue with just saying everything is fine, is that one person's definition of "fine" may be very different from another person's. Pet stores are notorious for telling people that parameters are fine when they are in fact not fine.

So, if you would be able to go back and get it tested again and get numbers for us that would be extremely helpful in determining what may be going on. Perhaps try a different store if you think the one you went to today will not provide you with exact readings :)

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Until then, doing more frequent and larger water changes is a must here. Especially as you are overstocked. One quick question, is your fish in the same area of the tank when this happens? Is there any equipment nearby that could be putting out an electrical charge?

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when did the seizures start?

Is there possibly anything that could be causing an electrical current in the water like a heater?

Any possibility of getting a video of the fish/behavior?

EDIT: posted at the same time as Amy :)

Edited by tithra
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Also, could you upload a video showing these seizures? It would be really helpful.

I also just wanted to urge you not to medicate with anything new until we have a better picture of what's going on. If there too many things in the mix, it can make things worse or make it incredibly difficult to unravel.

Hang in there! :)

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The seizures are at different times each day, sometimes he has a bunch of little ones and sometimes he has bigger ones. They are random. He will also be doing different things each time.

I do not have a heater in the tank. The only thing electrical in the water is the filter.

I have been keeping an eye on his tankmate Pushy aswell, and she does not do anything that Pacer does. She appears to be perfectly healthy.

I will try to get a video, it will be hard catching it happening in time though, but I will try.

Would a video of them help even if he is not having a seizure? I was wondering if maybe they are showing something wrong that my inexperience is just not seeing.

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I still have not gotten a video of his "seizures". The video I am posting now is him acting as he usually does, just in case he is showing something wrong that I do not notice. Also in this video you can see just how much and how long they gulp at the surface.

The tank light is off in the video because I thought with the light off he might act more natural, enstead of trying to get me to feed him. :)

And I will be cleaning the algea off tomorrow when I siphon. lol

Oh, and pay no attention to the sound in the background, it is of my husband playing Mass Effect. lol

th_DSCF3967.jpg

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Yes, there does seem to be quite a lot of surface gulping. Do they do this throughout the day, or is it more or less for a couple of hours after feeding?

We really do need to get numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH from both the tank and the tap.

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They gulp at the surface on and off all day, feeding does not seem to effect it.

There is a way better fish store I know (it was closed today so that is why I did not go there) I will try to go there tomorrow to test my water.

Edited by Aluyasha
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There is a way better fish store I know (it was closed today so that is why I did not go there) I will try to go there tomorrow to test my water.

Great! Make sure you bring a sample of tap water too, please :)

Hang in there. For any sort of issues that come up with goldfish, it's much better to be methodical in our approach in eliminating possible culprits. The first thing that we have to check, no matter what, is water quality! Degraded water quality alone a lot of the times is responsible for the problem, and if not so, can contribute to, or act against our attempted treatments. There are tons of meds out there that purport to treat a variety of conditions, but many times, you won't need it, and when you do, it's important to make sure that it's the appropriate treatment.

You are doing a fantastic job :)

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just got back from the fish store. While I was there I bought some test strips for later and a big tall plant for them. :)

There test was the drop kind. They did not have a Ph test but the guy there told me that where I live it is about 7.

Ammonia: .0

Nitrite: .0

Nitrate: around 3.5

...I forgot to bring a sample of tap, sorry. :)

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