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miss_mystra

A very long story about 2 orandas...

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Hi Helen,

Re my suggestion to use warm water out of the tap, or to add water from the kettle before putting it in the tank to help get the water at a correct temperature, was this ok? Just wouldn't want to steer Mystra in the wrong direction. What do you think?

Cheers,

Isabella.

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Hi Helen,

Re my suggestion to use warm water out of the tap, or to add water from the kettle before putting it in the tank to help get the water at a correct temperature, was this ok? Just wouldn't want to steer Mystra in the wrong direction. What do you think?

Cheers,

Isabella.

yes and no hun..

for instance, if she is unable to keep the temp at stable at the higher one, it's best that she maintains the current temp. nowdays with product Seachem Prime, you can temp adjust the water by just mixing it from the tap and adding it direct. treat with prime and all's good.

but if she makes the temp warmer and doesn't have a heater to keep it at that temp, then it's just going to drop again and it's going to give inconsistant water temperatures to the fish. given that her fish is already weak somewhat, it's best that we maintain a stable environment with all params including water temperature.

sometimes, really quick temperature changes either higher or lower can also cause a fish to suffer dropsy. water temperature should only be adjusted a few degrees (higher or lower) every few hours, it is imperative that the PH is closely matched also with every waterchange.

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Thanks for clarification, Helen. Good info to know, and relieved that Mystra now has good info re water temp.

:)

Edited by Isabella

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thanks everyone, i do use a heater to maintain a steady temp in these winter months as the room can get very chilly whilst we're not at home. Normally it only drops a couple of degrees during a water changes but i think with this being such a big one it dropped a bit, but it's steady at 22°c this morning.

The bad news - and i'll take a photo when i get back in as i didn't have time this morning - Precious, despite the fungus calming down, has lost a LOT of her tail and fin tissue. it's the thinner webbing parts in between the 'supporting' bits, so it looks all stringy. I can't believe it, how could all that happen overnight! I had to double check those photos i took last night, but it's completely different.

She's seems to be finding it difficult to swim as well, she's got the energy, but i guess with half her tail gone its like having holes in a parachute. Will it grow back?? To be fair the 'wounds' look cleaner now but i don't know what to do now to continue when i get home tonight. I'll test the water again to start! But i guess a water change is on the cards again? how much? i didn't fill the tank completely as i didn't want it be too much water pressure change, but i'd say there's a healthier 100L in there now.

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i nearly cried too.. you darling fish reminds me so much of my darling fish who passed on about a year ago now from unrelated swim bladder issues.. here he is.. Sir Loyn:

sirloyn2.jpg

as you can see, his pose is slightly "bottoms up" SL was my only fish who suffered swim bladder. going by everyone's theory, he should have been the only fish to have NOT suffered swim bladder as he was my only long bodied fish. SL was between 9-10" long.

i notice yours has a very swollen tummy. for now, and i would not do this often, just to kick this off, can you prepare a pea and push an "epsom salt" granule into it and feed? there are methods of feeding if he does not willingly take it from your hand, but can we try this first?

awww, what a gorgeous fish, he has that same look in his eye of Pedro! So sorry for your loss of him, it just proves that they do all have their own funny personalities and you can get attached to them, they aren't 'just' fish!

he doesn't feed from my hand, so will give him a go with a pea and salt granule... does it have to be epsom salt? i have aquarium salt but not epsom salt so can i use that?

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epsom salt combined with the pea will act like a very powerful laxative, aquarium salt will not.. if he's backed up at all and having difficulties passing food, this is the better way to find relief. if he does not take it, see if you are able to get a syringe from the chemist (no needle) just the syringe to feed with. what i found with SL is that i would boil two peas, crush two epsom granules into fine powder. mash the peas into the epsom powder. force that into the back end of the syringe, once i forced it all down to the nozzle, i would draw up about 5ml of tank water. i would shake that until the mixture became runny and then feed like this:

http://s1011.photobucket.com/albums/af233/stakos/sir%20loyn/?action=view&current=MAH00089.mp4

excuse the trembling, this was my first time feeding this way and i was more nervous than SL.. since then, i have found it very useful for other sick fish and so have other members whom have learned to feed like this during times of need.

re the fins, post some pics, just to answer your question, yes, fins do grow back, sometimes they're never the same, other times not even in the ball park of what they looked like initially and very few situations, they don't grow back at all.. but, most of the time, they do.

lets try to get to the bottom of why your fish is feeling like this tho. is there any chance you can qt him in a seperate tank? if the other one is doing well, perhaps we need to concentrate on him alone?

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apologies hun, that i refer to your fish as a he.

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apologies hun, that i refer to your fish as a he.

lol its ok, technically i have no idea! The orange oranda is he in my eyes (Pedro) and the other is Precious who's just so pretty she's gotta be a lady :D

i don't have a spare tank to use as quarantine :( they both have the same fungus, it's just Precious seems to have suffered more with the fin rot side of things. Pedro meanwhile is still the wrong way up... i'm starting to think that's just how he's gonna be now. He's more active though which makes me happy, better than just upside down and not moving at all... he does the odd somersault!

i'll see if i can get hold of syringe at lunchtime today and get some espom salts too and give your suggestion a whirl. Do you have any tips on handling a fish... i have done it before but i worry about hurting them/damaging them through touching them etc.... i always make sure i have clean hands no soap or residues etc, but anything else i should know?

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sure.. what i do is (naturally) clean my hands and particularly scrub under my nails so that there is nothing that can create bacteria.

when i handle a fish, i sink my hand in the tank and allow them to come to me, my fish are very friendly with me, i spend heaps of time interacting with them. but i see that you will need to reach and grab your fish from where she is.

what to do.. find yourself a container big enough to take her (i use the glad ware snap seal ones as they have a rounded rim, but you can use anything that is food safe) that is clean and rinse it with cold water. sink the container in the tank and gently either encourage or move your fish into it. then slowly bring it to the surface. when you have the container at the surface, tilt it gently to release some water so that the container is not too full and can take the volume of your hand when it's in it without spilling, then remove the container with the fish/water to the bench.

when you handle the fish, if you run the video again, you will notice that i do not cover the gill plates (as they need those to breath with and will panic once they're covered) and i do not cover any fins. just hold the fish up. it's best that before you attempt to feed that you just hold the fish for a little so that they calm down and do not feel theatened by your hand. once calm and not trying to break free, try to feed. Sir Loyn was a gobbler.. he gobbled food well, i had no troubles feeding him. but sometimes, fish will protest by sealing their mouths shut, all you need to do is gently rub the syringe nozzle at the opening of her mouth and she will open it.

do not be in a hurry to squirt all the food in there as she will spit it out. feed it drops at a time and allow her the time to chew. your grip on the fish should not be tight, just supportive.

one thing you should know, do not panic. if she wants to be released, let her go, try again in 5 or 10 mins. with sir loyn, i tried many times on the first day and finally succeeded that evening.. second day was not so bad, but he resisted for the first half of the second day.

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brilliant, thanks so much for the help :D i will try this tonight on him

Pedro has been handled a little more but he does thrash a little still. I interact with them lots from behind glass so they aren't all that used to the 'hands in' approach LOL. Precious stomach is fine which is good as she gets very stressed even just being gently removed from the tank with a big translucent jug i use.

Luckily i don't care about my nails and cut them really short so easy to keep scrubbed and clean too!

Just to check, with the whole he/she thing - you do mean the orange fish to do this to? (he's a he) i think i'm probably confusing everyone with my 9 million posts a second and i do have a tendency to tell a story like the people i'm talking to know the fish etc personally like i do haha!!

sure.. what i do is (naturally) clean my hands and particularly scrub under my nails so that there is nothing that can create bacteria.

when i handle a fish, i sink my hand in the tank and allow them to come to me, my fish are very friendly with me, i spend heaps of time interacting with them. but i see that you will need to reach and grab your fish from where she is.

what to do.. find yourself a container big enough to take her (i use the glad ware snap seal ones as they have a rounded rim, but you can use anything that is food safe) that is clean and rinse it with cold water. sink the container in the tank and gently either encourage or move your fish into it. then slowly bring it to the surface. when you have the container at the surface, tilt it gently to release some water so that the container is not too full and can take the volume of your hand when it's in it without spilling, then remove the container with the fish/water to the bench.

when you handle the fish, if you run the video again, you will notice that i do not cover the gill plates (as they need those to breath with and will panic once they're covered) and i do not cover any fins. just hold the fish up. it's best that before you attempt to feed that you just hold the fish for a little so that they calm down and do not feel theatened by your hand. once calm and not trying to break free, try to feed. Sir Loyn was a gobbler.. he gobbled food well, i had no troubles feeding him. but sometimes, fish will protest by sealing their mouths shut, all you need to do is gently rub the syringe nozzle at the opening of her mouth and she will open it.

do not be in a hurry to squirt all the food in there as she will spit it out. feed it drops at a time and allow her the time to chew. your grip on the fish should not be tight, just supportive.

one thing you should know, do not panic. if she wants to be released, let her go, try again in 5 or 10 mins. with sir loyn, i tried many times on the first day and finally succeeded that evening.. second day was not so bad, but he resisted for the first half of the second day.

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SAM_0701.jpg

this fish, pea and epsom :)

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also... should i do another water change tonight and how much? or just let it depend on the test results - ie if there's still high nitrates, and traces of nitrite and ammonia still do a change

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you can make as many water changes as you like. if there is any trace of ammonia or nitrites, immediate water change of 60-70% is essential.. if you have over 20 nitrites, i would be doing 2 back to back water changes of 60%. it's the only way to reduce nitrates in a hurry. but please be gentle. pedro looks sad lying there on his side.

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ok, buckets at the ready :) i'll test first, if the readings are fine i'll just do 30%, if any traces of ammonia/nitrite etc then big water change of 80%

He does look so sad there, he was worse though, he's a little more himself than a couple months back when he didn't move at all and just stared at nothing. he does his little somersault and i feel like there's a smidgen of hope for him :]

you can make as many water changes as you like. if there is any trace of ammonia or nitrites, immediate water change of 60-70% is essential.. if you have over 20 nitrites, i would be doing 2 back to back water changes of 60%. it's the only way to reduce nitrates in a hurry. but please be gentle. pedro looks sad lying there on his side.

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cool, i just went out for my lunch break and got the epsom salts and a syringe... it's not very big though but hopefully will be big enough to not get blocked up... syringes aren't the easiest things to get hold of on the street LOL if this one isn't big enough i'll make a trip to the vets and see what they have, plus they wont give me funny looks when i tell them it's for a fish! The pharmacist was quizzing me as if i was a drug user, then laughed when i told them it was for a goldfish... you can't win haha

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it doesn't need to be the biggest available.. the nozzles will all be the same size just as the needles are all the same fit (for the majority of the commercial production) as long as you have squashed that pea into a paste and then squashed the paste into the epsom dust you have made, you should be able to feed that into the back of the syringe and then force it down to the nozzle. once you've got it there, you can draw up some water, shake it till the mixture is somewhat runny and loose, it should fit through the nozzle with no dramas. do you want me to make a video for you so that you can see how it's done?

Edited by stakos

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it doesn't need to be the biggest available.. the nozzles will all be the same size just as the needles are all the same fit (for the majority of the commercial production) as long as you have squashed that pea into a paste and then squashed the paste into the epsom dust you have made, you should be able to feed that into the back of the syringe and then force it down to the nozzle. once you've got it there, you can draw up some water, shake it till the mixture is somewhat runny and loose, it should fit through the nozzle with no dramas. do you want me to make a video for you so that you can see how it's done?

ah good yes of course forgot about the water for second then! (would be reading it word for word tonight before doing it of course) i think i get how to do it from your instructions, but i'm sure lots of people would find a video useful (and so would i) only if you have time of course! :)

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it's a bit rough.,. but this is all i could manage at 2am :rofl

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it's a bit rough.,. but this is all i could manage at 2am :rofl

oh wow thank you, you're such a star! and at 2am too!! :heart you're so helpful! :D

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devasted.

Just come home and Precious (the blue oranda) is dead. I can't believe it and can't stop bloody crying!

I need to take her out the tank but i don't know what to do with the body even.

I am not winning am i? Maybe i'm being very emotional about this but i'm starting to wonder that if the healthier fish of the two can't survive this then what hope for Pedro? Really feels like it's time to give up now. I feel so guilty as i rescued her and i haven't had her 6 months and she's died. She was ok this morning in herself, just the rotted fins, i wasn't expecting it. I don't know what to do.

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Oh no :( I'm so sorry to hear that.

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I'm so sorry :(

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thanks everyone. i can't face doing anything with the tank tonight. isn't that horrible? looking at Pedro all upside down and no Precious in there breaks my heart. Was supposed to test the water and feed Pedro the peas etc with the syringe and i just can't face it.

Trying not to think about it but feels like it's coming up to a point where i need to think about the difference between surviving and thriving for Pedro. But now isn't the time to make that decision.

I don't know what to do with Precious' body though, we have no garden to bury her in, and loads of foxes round here would dig her up. We don't even have a spade :( I don't want to throw her in the bin.

I was thinking i could take her the vets and they can send her to be cremated like they do with the other animals that die there, don't mind paying. I don't want her ashes or anything (i'm one that believes once dead, it's just the body, i don't feel a need to have it around) but want her to be treated with respect as any loved pet.

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