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miss_mystra

A very long story about 2 orandas...

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well, i'll start with the info you need :) and also... hello everyone!

Other Required Info:


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level - usually 0, but lately 0.25 (will explain later)
  • * Nitrite Level (0.25, again normally 0)
  • * Nitrate level (80 - long story)
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.5, sorry don't have tests for the other things
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? all drops, tetra for nitrate, api for the rest
  • * Water temperature? varies, currently at 72°F
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 130L (Clearseal, 4 ft long, by 15" tall, 12" wide)
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Ehiem Pick up 2012, Fluval U2
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Normally a 30% once a week, now around 25% every day (in the last week - i'll explain!)

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, 25%, (doing another in a min!)
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 fairly large orandas (16cm including tails), and one weather loach about 8cm? never measured him! and 2 apple snails
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Previously used API Stress coat conditioner for the tap water, and API Stress zyme as the 'cleaner' every week, recently changed to Seachem Prime as tap water conditioner (this week)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari sinking pellets for fancy goldfish
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? Not since September (the blue oranda was added then, after 2 weeks quarantine and worming with Kusuri)
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Currently treating with Pimafix and Melafix, as well as salt and increasing the temperature ( i normally keep them around 18-20°c/66ish F)
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Treatment has included Swim Bladder medicine by Interpet (my first treatment for the huge amount of issues about 5 months ago), Melafix and Pimafix in the past week or so as described above, Kusuri wormer (2 treatments one after the other about 3 weeks ago)
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? You name it they have it.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? All of that. Will describe!

This is Pedro... i think he's an oranda x fan tail - i've had him since 2009 when i bought him from a pet shop as a tiny baby. kept him horribly (35L tank!! with 2 commons who of course died) until last year a kind person from the internet helped me out and educated me in the true value of a goldfish. Upgraded him to a properly cycled 4 ft 130L tank in November 2010, had the weather loach since December 2009 so of course he moved in too.SAM_0312.jpg

This is Precious - a beauuuuuutiful girl with the grumpiest face ever, a blue (?) oranda who i rescued from a man on Gumtree with the same new perspective but no room for a big tank. She was quarantined for 2 weeks and wormed etc. Went in, all was well for the happy couple. ie they ignored each other completely.

SAM_0562.jpg

Then in October, Pedro decides to do the upside down at the bottom of the tank thing. Assuming constipation/swim bladder issues as he's a greedy pig and gulps at the pellets before they've even sunk and eats his own poop, i didn't feed them for a week, then fed peas. Green poop all round, still no change. Tried again, nothing. Tried out the swim bladder treatment, i think you have to use it for a week, then try again if no change. I gave it 3 weeks, no change. Precious was fine. The loach was fine. Kept feeding to very small amounts every other evening.

This carried on. December i thought i'd test the water, naughty, i hadn't done it for ages... used api drops for all of it this time. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, ph 7.5.... nitrate was over 100. aaarrghh!! So i started doing more water changes. Kept testing, no change.... what was going on. Brain got into gear... tested the tap water.... 80ppm nitrates. Insane. tested again... same. Kept testing every week, always between 50-80ppm... rang the water company, they told me my tests were obviously wrong and i should keep my fish better... the guy tells me i must use water conditioner.... OF COURSE I DO!!!!!! He talks to me like i'm clue-less... i give up!

Put de-nitrating style media in the filters, it helped until the Fluval U2 kept clogging up every 5 mins, so that left just the ehiem with its normal sponge and a juwel de-nitrate sponge shoved in. It didn't do enough, especially as every time i did a water change i was bringing in even more nitrates.

Tried plants, they kept dying... the only thing they wont destroy (they don't eat just pull at them) is moss balls... but they don't help much!

Then as winter got colder in December, Precious' activity levels dropped too. Never worried about temperature before :s but bought a heater, it helped Precious no end and she picked up and was fine again.

Pedro was still upside down and at the bottom, looking completely out of it. but still alive. he normally acts like a naughty puppy and watches you eat, follows you around and shouts abuse (well it looks like it!) at me. I don't know where my fishy friend has gone, but i couldn't bring myself to give up on him and put him to sleep.

Installed an airstone in the beginning of January this year to help with oxygen levels, as i read that nitrates can bind to the red blood cells of the fish and make it harder for them to absorb oxygen, so i wanted to be sure there was plenty of oxygen and water movement.

I begged for further help on one of my regular forums fish sections... so many people were convinced my issues weren't because of the high nitrate... so i asked what they thought it was if nitrate wasn't an issue.

New suggestion was Pedro was suffering due to water pressure - apparently fancies were bred to be viewed from the top in ponds, not tall and narrow tanks and also though some cope fine, some don't. Over a couple of weeks i reduced the tank water level 1 inch. The water is normally 14" deep, at 8 inches, Pedro changed. he was tilted, rather than fully upside down, still the wrong way up. but he was stretching out his fins, not clamping them in, he was swimming and moving around the tank in spurts... he was looking at me with that face i hadn't seen for months! Hooray!

Due to the water level of course, i upped my water changes from once a week to twice. I also started to take out the gravel as i didn't want them dragging their bellies on it, and i do eventually want to convert to a proper planted tank when i have the money. The one day stupid me forgot to turn the heater off during a water change and POOFBANG... heater exploded of course but i whipped it out before it could even touch the water with the bare heating element. Finished off getting all the gravel out that night too because i was worried about shards of glass being hidden amongst it. Ordered a better heater, that one was a cheapo one of ebay so spent the money and got a Jager, trouble is it meant a week with out heat in the coldest time of the year in a flat without heating that can't be put on a timer (it's electric storage heaters, wired into the wall without timer switches). Tank temperature dropped to 12°c, Pedro seemed ok, Precious shut down, like she was hibernating. Gills barely moving, stuff settling on her like she was gathering dust! A couple of days showed it wasn't dust and i was an idiot. It was a full on fungus taking over just on her wen, and a little on her fins/tail, then Pedro got it too. Started treatment with Melafix and Pimafix, wacked on the heater when it arrived (at 22°c this time) added the salt etc, changed water and vaccumed every day. I'm guessing that i disturbed something lurking at the bottom of the gravel, combined with the temperature drop affecting their fishy immune systems they caught it easily.

As Precious is black and upright, it's easier to note progress on her. The fungus looks like mould... it looked translucent originally, now it is more white, and looks like it's breaking off and blistering in places. Sadly she seems to have fin rot on her lovely flowing fins. She's not very active at all, and seems hunched up in the corner a lot.

I don't know what to do... part of me thinks i should fill the tank back up so i can get the water quality back on track and have the right amount of water for the fish full stop, as you can see i now have 0.25 ammonia and nitrite and 80 nitrate, but then risk losing progress on Pedro.

Another thing to add, i set up an extra tub in the past week, with a ehiem 2010 filter with just Seachem denitrate pebble media in. I've been using this for water changes. However tested it tonight, it's ph is 8 and nitrate reads around 12. the water in there is also treated with Seachem prime when topped up with tap water. The sad irony is that i tested the tap water itself tonight and the nitrate has come down to 25. *screams* but i do suppose that's a good thing really!!

Also... though ALL this... the weather loach has been absolutely fine!! But then they seem to be fishy versions of tanks... i've heard someone had one jump out the tank and he found it on the carpet the other side of the room still alive and fine, went back in the tank of course!

Please if anyone has any suggestions i'd like to sleep at night :( i really do love these fish to pieces but i just keep going wrong somewhere.... sorry for such a long post.

Here's my naughty loach... the Lieutenant as he's known.

82744edf.jpg

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Wow, that is a long story! :)

But you've come to the right place. I think priority number one right now is getting your water quality under control. You fish have been through a lot of stress from medications and high nitrates, so let's just focus on reducing some of that.

I would recommend a huge water change, even 100% and yes, fill the tank up. Water pressure can make swim bladder issues worse, but I don't think it's the cause. I'd be more suspicious of the nitrates in your case.

As for the nitrates in the water, what type of media did you use to try to bring them down? I have had success with a resin made by Fluval.

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Someone will be along to advise on the finrot, but I wanted to mention there is a thread on here on using a pothos plant for getting nitrates out of the water. The plant stays outside the tank (so, no fish eating it), just the roots in, and it may help in your situation re the nitrates in your water. I hope your lovely fish get better.

RE swimbladder, may well be the nitrites, and also some folks have had success feeding gel food that is gelled with agar-agar. There is also a thread from the other day with recipes for this.

I had a fish with permanent swim bladder damage, and I put a glass blender jar (open at both ends) in the tank. he learned to kind of support himself in the opening upright.Not sure of that woudl work for all fish, it was just something my beloved Scooter figured out. But what might help is floating a big plastic colander in the tank and putting him in there, then he is not under the pressure of the water (since you were seeing an improvement with the lower water level) and that might make him more comfortable.
:)
Edited by spillie

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welcome to kokos, i hope things settle back to normal soon. your fish are absolutely beautiful :heart

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Unfortunately, the lowered temps put your fish in what is commonly referred to as Aeromonas alley, where the cold temp effectively shut down the fish's immune system (hibernation time) but left the fish susceptible to the Aeromonas bacteria in your tank.

I agree with Chrissy in that you need to do a huge water change, bring temp back to normal, and will need to treat for Aeromonas. What sort of waterborne antibacterial meds do you have access to? I also think your cycle took a hit from the cold.

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Wow, that is a long story! :)

But you've come to the right place. I think priority number one right now is getting your water quality under control. You fish have been through a lot of stress from medications and high nitrates, so let's just focus on reducing some of that.

I would recommend a huge water change, even 100% and yes, fill the tank up. Water pressure can make swim bladder issues worse, but I don't think it's the cause. I'd be more suspicious of the nitrates in your case.

As for the nitrates in the water, what type of media did you use to try to bring them down? I have had success with a resin made by Fluval.

Hi

I did try a media by Fluval (it's like a grainy style one) for reducing nitrates, i put it in the sock thing which i then placed in the middle basket of the U2 filter... it clogged so often i gave up and switched to Seachem... which did the same LOL... so now the Eheim 2012 has the foot of one of my spare pairs of tights filled with some of the Seachem stuff in the top third (i cut the sponge down a little to make room). I use the same sort of set up in my special tub, except the whole Eheim 2010 is filled with Seachem in a 'sock'. I am so relieved that the tap water nitrates are coming down though, 25ppm is the lowest they've been in months! Hopefully that will help too.

Sounds like tonight's plans involve a lot of buckets! Weird because on my other forum that i use i got told i'm doing too many changes and should let them alone and let the filters do the work, and that adding new water all the time has caused another 'cycle'... i always thought that it was the bacteria in the filters that needed to be established as a result of a successful cycle and once that was in place, the water being 'new' etc doesn't make any difference :S it's all so confusing but my gut's agreeing with you guys here, there's something nasty in the water and i don't want my fish living in it!

As for the water pressure thing, it has been the only thing that's made a difference, but for now i need to sort out the water, easier to look after a big amount of water than small and over-stocked. thank you :)

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Someone will be along to advise on the finrot, but I wanted to mention there is a thread on here on using a pothos plant for getting nitrates out of the water. The plant stays outside the tank (so, no fish eating it), just the roots in, and it may help in your situation re the nitrates in your water. I hope your lovely fish get better.

RE swimbladder, may well be the nitrites, and also some folks have had success feeding gel food that is gelled with agar-agar. There is also a thread from the other day with recipes for this.

I had a fish with permanent swim bladder damage, and I put a glass blender jar (open at both ends) in the tank. he learned to kind of support himself in the opening upright.Not sure of that woudl work for all fish, it was just something my beloved Scooter figured out. But what might help is floating a big plastic colander in the tank and putting him in there, then he is not under the pressure of the water (since you were seeing an improvement with the lower water level) and that might make him more comfortable.
:)

cool i will look into the pothos plant idea... someone did suggest else where getting a basket thing, so i tried one of those things that you use to hold your stuff in the shower with suckers on the back... Pedro kept headbutting it off, he took a real dislike to it haha!!! I'll see what i can think of that's a bit more sturdy!!! I really do like planted tanks, just can't afford to do the full thing yet, and we are moving house in a few months, so would rather wait for that... but the plants hanging their roots in and growing out sounds really nice! i will try out your other ideas too, see what cheers up the little guy! Hopefully he will enjoy the gel food too, although at the moment they have no appetite.. to the point i put a little food in and they just let it land on their heads and did nothing :( I reeeeeally want to have an indoor pond someday for them, shallower but bigger, with lots of plants etc but i don't think any landlord would be that kind! I'm lucky to be allowed such a big tank for now, as in London landlords are so mean generally you're lucky to be allowed a tiny little nano tank!

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Interesting, despite all the horrible situation and stress of it all, stuff like this fascinates me too, and i've not heard this term before (i still consider myself very much a noob so much of this). I use Melafix and Pimafix but i'm sure i could get hold of anything necessary thanks to the magic of internet shopping :) i had a feeling it was related to them 'hibernating' etc but great to have a name to look into further and learn about, so thanks!

Unfortunately, the lowered temps put your fish in what is commonly referred to as Aeromonas alley, where the cold temp effectively shut down the fish's immune system (hibernation time) but left the fish susceptible to the Aeromonas bacteria in your tank.

I agree with Chrissy in that you need to do a huge water change, bring temp back to normal, and will need to treat for Aeromonas. What sort of waterborne antibacterial meds do you have access to? I also think your cycle took a hit from the cold.

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Hello and welcome to Koko's! I can't find my other topic with my new larger pothos, but this here is the topic I made about my first (small) plant.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/95321-the-amazing-pothos/

I eventually replaced this with a very large plant, and am also having the roots loose in my tank. The tank's back is only a few inches away from a wall, which gives the plant some support, and most of the plant is laying across the top of the HOB filters. You know what, let me take a quick photo. http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j269/EileenGalvin/pothos.jpg

When you first add the plant, its original roots will partly rot off, (you might have to do a couple extra filter media cleanings), but the plant will grow new ones that have adapted to absorbing nutrients right from the water. This is then also the point where you will notice a decrease in nitrates. Considered you have such high nitrates, you will want to go with a really big plant, or maybe even two :)

Have you tried a new nitrate test kit, just in case? 80ppm isn't even legal in the tap, is it? Have you tried testing some store bought drinking water? Just get a bottle plain drinking/spring water and test its nitrates, to see what your test kit tells you :)

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hello! *waves*

this looks fun to try out, i'm going to see if i can find a suitable container this weekend that they can't knock off!

I tested the nitrates twice with my older API test, and the Tetra test which is brand new, both read the same :) so i reckon they're accurate. London is notorious for nitrates in the tap water apparently, it's not supposed to be over 50ppm in the drinking water, but if you tell the water company they will just tell you that your test cost a few £s and they have multi million £ testing facilities so they must be right and not just bull-pooping at all! Nightmare! So glad it's finally come down though, a little bit of relief.

I'm going to take some pictures of them tonight, the tank isn't lit so it can be a bit tricky but hopefully it will help, even though taking pictures of them in this state makes me feel very sad and ashamed to have them got into this state, poor fishies :(

Precious had crammed herself into a corner this morning between the Fluval and the corner of the tank, and she looked all bent up so i was panicking even more, i got her to move and she looked normal again so i guess it was just her position at the time. Her beautiful tail and fins look so raggedy, she normally looks so pretty with her amazing flowing fins (and grump face LOL) Pedro has the same amount of mouldy stuff on his wen but doesn't seem to have much going wrong on his fins/tail.

Hello and welcome to Koko's! I can't find my other topic with my new larger pothos, but this here is the topic I made about my first (small) plant.

http://www.kokosgold...amazing-pothos/

I eventually replaced this with a very large plant, and am also having the roots loose in my tank. The tank's back is only a few inches away from a wall, which gives the plant some support, and most of the plant is laying across the top of the HOB filters. You know what, let me take a quick photo. http://i82.photobuck...lvin/pothos.jpg

When you first add the plant, its original roots will partly rot off, (you might have to do a couple extra filter media cleanings), but the plant will grow new ones that have adapted to absorbing nutrients right from the water. This is then also the point where you will notice a decrease in nitrates. Considered you have such high nitrates, you will want to go with a really big plant, or maybe even two :)

Have you tried a new nitrate test kit, just in case? 80ppm isn't even legal in the tap, is it? Have you tried testing some store bought drinking water? Just get a bottle plain drinking/spring water and test its nitrates, to see what your test kit tells you :)

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It's hard to tell in the pictures, but is that brown algae on the tank walls? As far as I remember, these diatoms can also harbor bad bacteria. It probably won't hurt to clean the tank walls off right before the next big water change, so you can drain all the cleaned off, free floating brown algae out of the tank.

Do you vacuum your gravel frequently also?

Just thinking of where all any additional baddies could be hiding. At this point you will want to have as few of them in your tank as possible :)

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Yes it is algae, although i'd says it's green rather than brown, the pics were taken in the summer...when we do have a battle on our hands as its a very sunny room (and the only room big enough for the tank to live, it's in the least sunny spot but unfortunately one of the small sides gets a beating! Always get off as much as i can with a sponge but it grows back so quick! The gravel was always vacuumed with every water change, when i had it, now i still use the vac to just pick up general debris.. and it likes sucking up the moss balls (pain in the bum LOL especially now with about 30something of them knocking around there!)

Tonight i will be on a mission!

It's hard to tell in the pictures, but is that brown algae on the tank walls? As far as I remember, these diatoms can also harbor bad bacteria. It probably won't hurt to clean the tank walls off right before the next big water change, so you can drain all the cleaned off, free floating brown algae out of the tank.

Do you vacuum your gravel frequently also?

Just thinking of where all any additional baddies could be hiding. At this point you will want to have as few of them in your tank as possible :)

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Sounds like tonight's plans involve a lot of buckets! Weird because on my other forum that i use i got told i'm doing too many changes and should let them alone and let the filters do the work, and that adding new water all the time has caused another 'cycle'... i always thought that it was the bacteria in the filters that needed to be established as a result of a successful cycle and once that was in place, the water being 'new' etc doesn't make any difference :S it's all so confusing but my gut's agreeing with you guys here, there's something nasty in the water and i don't want my fish living in it!

Just wanted to stop in and say hi and welcome to the forum! You are already getting excellent advice, I just wanted to touch on the issue of water changes. You are absolutely right that it is the beneficial bacteria in the filters that need to be established in order for the tank to cycle. The majority of the beneficial bacteria live in the filter media, as it provides the perfect oxygen rich environment. If you have gravel, some BBs will also reside there. There may be some free floating in the water column, but really they need a surface to colonize so the amount is negligible. Water changes will absolutely not harm your cycle, and as long as you match temp and Ph they should not be stressful for your fish either (having poor water quality is way more stressful for your fish than a water change!). Most members here do 50-80% water changes anywhere between every 3-7 days in their fully cycled tanks. When you are still cycling it is necessary to do large frequent water changes to keep the parameters safe :)

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here are the photos, as promised, i want to cry when i look at the ones of Pedro - the camera makes him look like he has no pupil so he looks like he's dead :(

This is his 'usual' angle. Just got in tonight to some 'swearing' jazz fins and an angry face he looks like he's shouting abuse - that's my boy! he hates having his photo taken and at a time like this i don't blame him!

SAM_0712.jpgSAM_0709.jpg

This is the top view - i promise his eyes are normal - stupid camera! You can just make out the 'mould' on the wen. But his fins are out and moving which is a huge improvement from a month or so ago when he was fully upside down and fins were clamped in, and he looked vacant. his fins look a little tatty, but to be honest he's always looked a bit scruffy and they aren't new tatty bits.

SAM_0701.jpg

SAM_0711.jpg

SAM_0710.jpg

SAM_0708.jpgSAM_0703.jpgSAM_0702.jpg

And this is Precious, also from the top. You can really see the 'mould' on her wen! Poor lady :( You can see why some people believe fancies are best viewed from the top though, look at those fins. They're also slightly red in places, any tatty bits are new in her case, there is some holes in the middle of the tail if you look from the side, but she doesn't photograph well in the tank from behind glass as its not lit and she's so dark.

SAM_0707.jpg

SAM_0706.jpg

SAM_0705.jpg

SAM_0704.jpg

I hope these are useful to those helping me out, i'm very grateful for all your advice. x

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Sounds like tonight's plans involve a lot of buckets! Weird because on my other forum that i use i got told i'm doing too many changes and should let them alone and let the filters do the work, and that adding new water all the time has caused another 'cycle'... i always thought that it was the bacteria in the filters that needed to be established as a result of a successful cycle and once that was in place, the water being 'new' etc doesn't make any difference :S it's all so confusing but my gut's agreeing with you guys here, there's something nasty in the water and i don't want my fish living in it!

Just wanted to stop in and say hi and welcome to the forum! You are already getting excellent advice, I just wanted to touch on the issue of water changes. You are absolutely right that it is the beneficial bacteria in the filters that need to be established in order for the tank to cycle. The majority of the beneficial bacteria live in the filter media, as it provides the perfect oxygen rich environment. If you have gravel, some BBs will also reside there. There may be some free floating in the water column, but really they need a surface to colonize so the amount is negligible. Water changes will absolutely not harm your cycle, and as long as you match temp and Ph they should not be stressful for your fish either (having poor water quality is way more stressful for your fish than a water change!). Most members here do 50-80% water changes anywhere between every 3-7 days in their fully cycled tanks. When you are still cycling it is necessary to do large frequent water changes to keep the parameters safe :)

thanks :D now i've uploaded my pics, i've got the sleeves rolled up ready for some bucket action! My lounge is upstairs (it's a massive room in a loft) whereas the kitchen, bedroom and bathroom are all downstairs... as is the water supply lol... at least it keeps me fit!

I feel a little less worried tonight as when i came in Precious was swimming round a little and looked less glum, and Pedro game me some attitude!

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eeeek, found about 10 of Pedro's scales on the floor of the tank!!!!

Can't see any areas on him where it looks like they are missing from tho :s

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Oh My Goodness what a situation you are in :( I give you praise for not giving up !!!your poor babies :( perhaps you can use a hose out a window for water removal?vacuuming? and only have to do the buckets for filling :) as already stated above first thing first is get your water in order...good clean water will do wonders for a fish in my opinion :) the raise in temp should help with their ability to fight of the infection already on them :( how do you maintain your moss balls??if you plan on using salt you may have to re locate them temporarily ;) I do hope they continue to improve for you :) hang in there it can only get better :) right :)

By the Way Welcome to koko's :)

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thanks for the kind words :)

unfortunetely i live on the 1st floor, and the living room is on the 2nd floor of the building... i don't think the people below would be too happy if i let it out the window via hose... i really hope our next home will be ground floor for that reason! plus water the plants with fishie water, such a waste chucking it down the drain! ah i didn't know moss balls weren't a fan of salt, i might chuck them in another tub for a bit ;) otherwise... i don't really maintain them!

Oh My Goodness what a situation you are in :( I give you praise for not giving up !!!your poor babies :( perhaps you can use a hose out a window for water removal?vacuuming? and only have to do the buckets for filling :) as already stated above first thing first is get your water in order...good clean water will do wonders for a fish in my opinion :) the raise in temp should help with their ability to fight of the infection already on them :( how do you maintain your moss balls??if you plan on using salt you may have to re locate them temporarily ;) I do hope they continue to improve for you :) hang in there it can only get better :) right :)

By the Way Welcome to koko's :)

euuuw also found what i can only describe as SNOT on the air curtain when i just gave it a wipe - yellow and stringy snot!! What on earth would that be???

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phew!! taking a little break!

Took out all but around 2-3 inches of water, so i guess it will equate to a 80%ish water change. Currently i've put about 50L back in and have emptied the 'de-nitrate' tub completely and just refilled it with tap water and treated it with Seachem Prime.

But... i gently propped Pedro upright using the loache's hide/filter and a sleeping apple snail. He eventually shifted as the water moved around during me putting new water in. But...he's now perfectly sideways! Before he was 45° upside down on a tilt :D i'd say that was reason for cake!

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Oh, poor babies. I sure hope they get better. I am also a fan of clean water and salt.

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Oh, poor babies. I sure hope they get better. I am also a fan of clean water and salt.

thanks :D

Precious is looking better already! Her eyes looked really sunken in and the areas around them were swollen, now she has eyes again, hello lady! Just wish the temperature would warm up, it's still only 16°c, even though i have the heater on it takes a while to bring it back up as the tap water is quite cold :(

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:hi from a very hot Australia. I've got the reverse problem with water from the tap being too warm for the fish tank. For water change day I stick bottles of water in the fridge to cool the water down as best I can. Would it be possible for you to mix hot water out of the tap or a kettle with the cold water to bring the temperature up (slowly of course) before you put it in the fish tank? Maybe one of the more experienced members can comment on whether this is a good idea? Hope your fish get better soon!,

Isabella.

Edited by Isabella

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oh.. how sad the photos are.. i will read through all this again and see if i can make any suggestions.. hang in there..

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i nearly cried too.. you darling fish reminds me so much of my darling fish who passed on about a year ago now from unrelated swim bladder issues.. here he is.. Sir Loyn:

sirloyn2.jpg

as you can see, his pose is slightly "bottoms up" SL was my only fish who suffered swim bladder. going by everyone's theory, he should have been the only fish to have NOT suffered swim bladder as he was my only long bodied fish. SL was between 9-10" long.

i notice yours has a very swollen tummy. for now, and i would not do this often, just to kick this off, can you prepare a pea and push an "epsom salt" granule into it and feed? there are methods of feeding if he does not willingly take it from your hand, but can we try this first?

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