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Bernie is hanging on by a limb


Midnight112x

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another good possibility about the tank equipment. It actually looked better than i thought it would when i checked today. No rust and minimal grime. All of the equipment was purchased in 2011 early summer. my old filters were tossed because they fell apart.

All of this is good though because i will forever be cautious to these possibilities

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It does make sense. The labored breathing concerns me, since it might be indicative of compromised gill functions. In that case, I don't know that a salt dip is good or not. What do you guys think?

I don't think a salt dip is the way to go either. It really does seem like they were poisoned by something for it to be so sudden. Is there a chance anything got into your water? Maybe consider phoning the city as well to see if the water supply has been treated? It could still be a pathogen or bacteria, but it's so odd for so many to get sick at once like this :(

good idea but i think the bedroom tank would have been affected as well and Fred is happier than ever in there. thank you for helping i do appreciate this from everybody

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Midnight, it is always hard to loose fish, double so when you do not know why.

If you have the stomic for it you might want to check a few things and photograph too.

that is , open gill cover and get good pic of the gills.

open fish from vent along belly and peel back skin , get pic of gut, kidney and gonads, these can be compared to healthy fish pictures and it might give a clue to what is happening with you aquatic world. i have learned to do this and it has helped to produce future positve results .

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Do you have your heater in the QT--and if you unplug it for a few hours, is there a change in behavior? I had an Aqueon heater that was only a year old and just before Xmas, I had it heating water in a bucket for betta water changes and got a tingle when I touched the cord and another when I (duh) then put my finger in the water. It was leaking high amounts of electicity. I am not sure you can always feel it like I did--I think you can have electricity leak that you cannot feel, but could be affecting the fish. It is a long shot, for sure, but if your heater is malfunctioning, it could explain why you have issues in one tank and not the other.

I am so sorry you lost Bernie, Midnight.

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i am sorry daniel :(

the only thing i can think of is that if you think there is something in the watersource toxin wise, that you order in some spring water and see if a few days of spring water turns the situation around..

we tried this with a member once and managed to save the last out of her 5 fish. it may be worth a try..

i really am sorry that you are experiencing problems with your fish again, and that you lost bernie :( RIP sweet thing :(

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morning update: they are all still alive and are just bottom sitting. Fins dont look clamped and Bruce is swimming around occasionally. If Stewart doesnt start swimming around all crazy then there is improvement.

Mikroll, if i lose another fish my wife might be able to open him/her up, i cant do it.

Spillie, i actually dont use a heater my water stays around 68-70F

Helen, i am only leaning away from it coming from the water source because we have well water here and the bedroom goldie tank and betta tank are both fine and use the same water.

Carbon doesnt remove bad bacteria correct? So if the carbon is helping i will direct the blame to fake plants and decor.

Edit: *The heavy breathing seems to be slowing down :) Light at the end of the tunnel?

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fingers crossed daniel, i hope things continue to improve. no, carbon does not remove bad bacteria from the tank. but if things are getting better, continue as you are doing.

i noticed a bump on one of the fish's back, don't recall which one without checking the vid again. is that normal?

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that bump is from Bernie. He always had that, it seemed like a deformity. we brought him home because he looked like he wasnt going home with ayone. He was in the pet store for a while.

I think it was the beginning of a dorsal fin that never grew

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Oh so the other tanks with the SAME water are fine? I would go ahead and do some salt dips now. I don't see any other possibility.

THey are now in a tub with or without cycled filter?

When Blondie got sick I just took her out in a totally sterile tub with just a totally sterile heater and bubbler.

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right now the 3 of them are in a 20 gallon tank. The filter in that was borrowed from my bedroom tank. Bedroom tank is healthy and had two filters that have cycled media so taking one was not a problem.

Im am not familiar with a salt dip...

Peter looked ok during all this but clearly he is starting to go downhill like the rest did... i guess they are all doomed

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okay I think you should try a salt dip on the strongest fish.

You will probably want to start with 2% ( the usual fish safe aquarium salt). This is 20grams per liter. (can some US member help with this please? I don't know how you convert it in teaspoons etc)

You will want to set up a small tub of water - primed and exact temp and pH as main tank. Then you will dose it with the salt (previously diluted - I boil it in some water). Then you will take your fish of choice and transfer him into that tub. I keep my hand under them at all times so I can grab them right away in case of emergency. My fish tolerate the salt for 30seconds to 5minutes. 5minutes is your absolute max You will not leave any fish in there more even if he shows no stress. You will probably want to use an accurate timer.

So the way to decide how long the fish can tolerate it is to keep a VERY close eye on it and see when it 'faints'. The fish usually starts to loose a little balance and eventually turn on the side. At that point you want to take him out gently and put him back in clean water. If you see the fish breath heavy and 'clear' his gills in the salt dip, this is very good. The salt will really clean them out well.

Now. I am thinking, it wold be the best idea if the 'sterilized' fish would go to a separate little tub. Do you have such on hand? It would just need a little bubbler and you would do daily water changes in it to keep the parameters well. Then every time the fish gets his dip, the tank will be totally emptied, rinsed with hot water, and refilled with temp and pH matched water. This is how I did it with Blondie and it worked perfect. I think it is the best thing I can come up with if it is parasitic. You will want to do this dip a total of 3 times, on alternate days. So today, tuesday and thursday for example.

I have always had very good experiences with the dips. They sound scary but my fish tolerate them all very well.

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wow this sounds scary. I had my wife read it also and we are still a bit confused. I will write what i think you mean and someone correct me when i am wrong:

I have them in the 20 gallon tank now, all 3 fish. Take the strongest one out (bruce)

Create a 2%salt mixture which i assume will be cloudy water. Can someone help me with conversions to non metric system?

I have two 5 gallon buckets on hand

Take one empty 5 gallon and put this 2%salt slution in it without any extra water? Let Bruce kinda float in it while holding him? or is it filled with water in the bucket plus salt dip?

after we are done with the dip, place him in another 5 gallon bucket using clean water and an airstone only? do not put him back in the 20 gallon?

repeat this 3 times. So basically i can only do one fish per week because i do not have extra buckets to store them in?

II could put one in the main tank which is running right now without any fish in it. i just cleaned it out... or would putting the fish back in there contaminate it again?

and when you say strongest, you mean the one that looks like he has the best chance to survive? this guy did live through pre-kokos days with 8ppm ammonia...

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wow this sounds scary. I had my wife read it also and we are still a bit confused. I will write what i think you mean and someone correct me when i am wrong:

I have them in the 20 gallon tank now, all 3 fish. Take the strongest one out (bruce) ONCE THE 5GAL WITH THE SALT SOLUTION IS READY

Create a 2%salt mixture which i assume will be cloudy water. Can someone help me with conversions to non metric system? IT WILL NOT BE CLOUDY. MAYBE ALEX CAN HELP CONVERT.

I have two 5 gallon buckets on hand GOOD

Take one empty 5 gallon and put this 2%salt slution in it without any extra water? NO. I TAKE LIKE 1GAL OF WATER, BOIL IT, AND DISSOLVE THE NECESSARY SALT TO BRING UP 5GALS OF WATER TO 2%. OTHERWISE THE SALT WILL NOT DISSOLVE. FOR ME IT IS ABOUT 18LITERS X 20= 360GRAMS OF SALT. THEN YOU ADD THIS SUPER CONCENTRATED HOT SALTED WATER TO THE 5GAL WATER FILLED TANK WITH PH AND TEMP MATCHED WATER (TO THE 20GAL). Let Bruce kinda float in it while holding him? HE WILL MOST LIKELY SWIM AT FIRST or is it filled with water in the bucket plus salt dip? NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN

after we are done with the dip, place him in another 5 gallon bucket using clean water and an airstone only? CORRECT do not put him back in the 20 gallon? CORRECT

repeat this 3 times. CORRECT, IF HE SEEMS TO STAND IT WELL So basically i can only do one fish per week because i do not have extra buckets to store them in?

II could put one in the main tank which is running right now without any fish in it. i just cleaned it out... or would putting the fish back in there contaminate it again? THAT COULD BE A GOOD IDEA. BUT THEN IT WILL TAKE LONGER FOR YOU TO EMPTY+REFILL WHEN HE IS GETTING HIS DIPS.

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what you could do is use the 2nd 5Gal as a 'transit' area. 20 gal - dip - 5gal while you empty+refill 20gal - 20gal. yes? This way I guess you could even do all 3 fish on the same days. One after the other.

* oh and the dip is best done when fish has not eaten for at least 12hrs. :)

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ok besides the conversion i think i understand it.

my 20 gallon-> 2%salt solution dip 5 gallon bucket-> 5 gallon bucket of clean water matching the 20 gallon tank water

My 20 gallon tank has .15% salt now. I assume bucket 3 should have the same concentration? Would this be salt overdose?

How do i know if the salt is hurting the fish and he cant take it? They are not swimming very well as it is so i will expect them to swim sideways regardless...

Thanks again for your help. once i can convert this i will start.

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yup then make bucket 3 maybe 0.1%. you could even phase it out tomorrow. But I don't think keeping it in is an issue.

The fainting you will be able to recognize right away. It isn't like weird swimming, the fish just sort of looses balance and stops moving, floating on his side. I just call it 'fainting'. Any freaking out I think would be a bad reaction. I never experienced a bad reaction so i am not too sure. My fish sort of have an initial 'shock' when I put them in, sort of clear their gills, swim around a bit, slowly start swim slower and start loosing balance then faint.

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I'm still not sure if a salt dip is a good idea here...what would it accomplish?

We've established that the likely cause of the issues is a toxin of some sort and that the fish are weak, and dips are stressful. I have traditionally considered them as emergency treatments for extreme parasite infestations or dropsy, but I don't think that is the case here.

Just my thoughts, but I am worried about the already weakened state of these fish and then exposing them to something so physically stressful.

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I personally think it is parasitic at this point. If it was water related the other tanks would also be suffering, and they aren't. Which seems strange. The only thing which would act so fast besides contamination is a parasite.

At this point he doesn't seem to have much to loose since the fish don't seem to be showing any signs of getting better. THis is just what I would do in his place.

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its weird, sometimes they look bad and then they look good. so its hard to tell. everytime i update something changes 30 minutes later... i look over right now and see 2 of them swimming around together like normal, but they were just bottom sitting 5 minutes ago

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Hi midnight, Salt dips, strong are a very old and trusted way of cleansing fish. We all use them with great results. . If yu are unsure how to do it look perhaps here at this link where you can see fotos of how I do it. a good picture is worth lots of words , yes?

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/94530-redcap-new-arirve-begin-qt/page__hl__%2Bsalt+%2Bdip__fromsearch__1

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