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Bottom sitting, swollen near anus, etc....dying :(


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Ok, so update. She was checked on around 7 and was swimming around, I've been up since 9:30 and she hasn't touched down once. She just gobbled up all 9 pieces of her food, and didn't even sit to chew. The lump, if it even exists, looks basically gone at this point. I'd get a picture but my camera died. I'm leaving home soon and won't be home until 11ish, when I'd be able to take one.

I saw some poop from where she was, and while most is a relatively uniform color, one was this really abnormal white one that almost looked like the freeze-dried bloodworms I feed her in terms of texture and uniformity (or lack there of). I'm assuming that could be some of the offending organisms we're talking about. I scooped it out, along with any other poop I can find. Tomorrow is a full vacuum day.

I have been toying with removing the gravel. I want to keep some in there because they like pecking and digging, but I'm realizing it's more of a nuisance. I must just reduce it by like 80%, keeping an extremely thin layer or something. We'll see. That's interesting about the squarest shape, makes sense though. So is this infection from eating the planaria, or something else? I'm confused as to what you're getting at, Trinket, but I completely understand your point, just not sure if this was caused by other worms breeding in excess and being consumed or the planaria.

Thanks for all the help so far! Just praying this is the end of the bad nights.

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I've been following this thread (not helping because I'm no expert haha) and I'm glad to hear that she's doing much better! if you're not into bare bottom, perhaps just have a very thin layer of gravel for them to pick at?

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I've been following this thread (not helping because I'm no expert haha) and I'm glad to hear that she's doing much better! if you're not into bare bottom, perhaps just have a very thin layer of gravel for them to pick at?

Haha thank you. Yes, I am considering leaving just a thin layer.

So I know I have to pick my battles, but now she's floaty from gulping air after eating pellets. And I know it's from gulping, because after eating them before she didn't float because she didn't gulp. This fish will be the death of me hahaha.

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Glad she is doing better. :) The funny white looking poop could definetely be an expelled worm, it is good if she flushes them out of her system.

As Trinket mentioned there are dangers related to the colored gravel you have in that it will over time release toxins that will make your fish sick. If your fish are like mine and they like to root around in the gravel you could replace it with some little river rocks which would also be too big for them to swallow. ( I know because I have one goldie who was always choking on his gravel until I changed it. :wall )

The planaria are usually harmless for your fish, but when you can see them it means that there is too big of an organic load in your gravel. Usually too much uneaten food which makes the planaria over breed. Now this organic overload is what is actually bad for your fish, even if you can't test it with a water quality test. This is what can cause internal infections, dropsy, etc. :( But you are already working to fix this so all is good. :)

As for the floaties, well it almost always happens when they are on the AP food. Feed her some peas when she finishes her 4 days of AP and it should help.

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Thank you for all of that information! I'm definitely going to do something about the gravel...I like that they have something to pick at so I'll put something down. She hasn't touched the bottom all day (from what I've seen). Of course she spent a few hours of that floating lol, but whatever, I'd rather her have the energy to go up then now.

I have the divider in now since I give her time after eating to just relax, and her and Bernie were, I kid you not, swimming up it together trying to rub belling on opposite sides. It's absurd how freakin' adorable they are.

I'll keep updating, but definitely with less frequency since it SEEMS I'm heading in the right direction. I'm going to pick up the remaining Jungle AP tomorrow and I'll disperse it to some senior members who can then distribute it when needed to others.

To everyone...whether you directly helped, threw out a suggestion, or simply gave me well wishes, thank you. Genuinely, I mean that. This one's been really hard for me.

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So woke up this morning at 7 and she was bottom sitting, not sure how long. Woke up at 10 and she was swimming around just fine, but during feeding she bottom sat a bit to chew. She's been down for about a minute. I'm not overly concerned as I didn't expect a 100% recovery, just hoping this is an anomaly and a return to the norm.

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And I'll say this, she looks a little...rounder today. Like she looks fatter towards the rear. She's pooping right now, which hopefully means she isn't constipated. Wonder if this means she can now gain weight, or if the parasite is growing?

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So not the best update, but Bernie's starting to sit a little bit :( I can't tell if she's hovering just above, but I'd swear he's sitting. Gabby's been a bottom sitter since I've had her, Bernie's NEVER sat in the 13 months he's been here. If it doesn't change soon, I'm going to throw him on the Jungle AP her 2nd week, and just run him an extra week.

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I hate to keep making new posts but for some reason I can't edit after like 10 minutes. I really want to get him started on the meds. He's NEVER, I repeat, NEVER sat on the bottom since I've had him. Like 4 days ago when Gabby was really bad he was down, this morning he was sitting a bit, and this afternoon he was as well. He seems to have less energy, too. I really want to start medicating him. He's pooping normally, too, so I can't blame constipation.

My question is this: can they be on separate schedules? I'm worried that when she's off it, she could re-catch it from him or something, because their schedules will literally alternate. Tomorrow morning is her last feeding on it, so if I start him tonight, he'll be on it until she goes back on, and he'll stop. Only 2/14 feedings will be Jungle AP for both of them. I'd wait until Tuesday night to match them up, but would rather start ASAP to prevent it from getting worse.

So my questions are this:

-Should I start him?

-If so, when?

-If they're on alternating schedules, would that raise the chances of them re-catching it when they're on their off time, or would it not matter?

Thanks!

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If you are keen on starting meds for both, I would wait for her next round to begin. I think that there is some time to make that decision. This way you can rule out just something else that may have temporarily bothered him, also this way the decision won't be one made in a panic.

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If you are keen on starting meds for both, I would wait for her next round to begin. I think that there is some time to make that decision. This way you can rule out just something else that may have temporarily bothered him, also this way the decision won't be one made in a panic.

I agree there is some time, I just know I'll absolutely lose it if he starts exclusively bottom sitting like her. I think I'll wait until Tuesday night UNLESS he starts bottom sitting exclusively or I see a protrusion forming. I'd be calm if he sat before...he never has. This is new. The ONLY changes in the past week for him was switching from my gelatin batch to the agar agar batch (giving it another shot). I highly doubt the AA batch is doing this, so I'm very concerned he caught whatever she had.

I will give it some time though, thanks! I know you didn't specifically ask for those pictures, but do you see anything of interest?

And last but not least, I picked up 3 bottles of the Jungle AP today. You get one, I'm not sure who should get the other 2 but I'm assuming some senior members. Ideas on how to sort that out?

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot
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Ask Koko, about whom she thinks it should be sent to :)

The thing is that we are always here, so if things take a drastic turn, we can alter strategy right away. Don't panic. :)

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Ask Koko, about whom she thinks it should be sent to :)

The thing is that we are always here, so if things take a drastic turn, we can alter strategy right away. Don't panic. :)

Alrighty, I'll shoot a PM. I'm not panicking for once, believe it or not haha, just know that there was a huge chance he could catch it and it seems he has. Say he doesn't have it though, would the medicating be a problem? Knowing what I've told you, what would you honestly do right now?

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot
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I actually had one other thing I wanted to ask about. The black of Bernie's eye was surrounded by a white line...in the past week or so this has faded, and seems to be becoming engulfed by the telescope material (just the white). Is this normal, or is this a sign of something as well? I've never known how the white surrounding the eye showed up originally, but I seem to remember it correlating with switching to my first batch of gelatin gel.

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I'm not 100% sure, but the white around the eyes could be some eye growth. To be sure, you can just try to take pics of the area in question so others can weigh in.

Instead of telling you what I would do right away, let me just talk about bottom sitting in general, as far as I understand it. Bottom sitting can happen when there are issues with water quality (like high nitrates), pH crashes, external parasites, or internal parasites. It can happen when the fish is just feeling unwell or constipated. So, there are a lot of causes, in line with the description general malaise. When, bottom sitting does occur, we then begin have to try to decipher the cause, starting with checking water parameters, followed by a nice big water change. Sometimes a fish may feel off, and it will also depend on whether he is bottom sitting all the time or a little bit. Even if he has never bottom sat before, it is not necessarily unusual for him to do so. So, to answer your question, what I would do right now is check parameters and do a big water change.

Is he still bottom sitting? Any fin clamping? Does he rouse when you come near? Any changes in appetite?

Edited by dnalex
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:exactly I would also wait until tuesday to medicate. With internal parasites you can have more time to decide what to do. It will make your life much easier if they are on the same schedule. :)
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HPIM2882.jpg

Yea, that makes sense about it being really anything. He actually did it DURING a big water change lol, I did a really big one. Hasn't done it sense. None of the times was there any clamping. No changes in appetite, and he reacts to me the same as always (probably thinks I'm an idiot and ignores me haha).

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Quick update. She's been bottom sitting fairly frequently today, and it looks like the bump's coming back again. It's really tiny, but it looks like it is re-emering. I assume this is part of the normal 4 week process, to not kill them all right away?

Thanks!

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