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Bottom sitting, swollen near anus, etc....dying :(


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I think you are very caring and want to do the best for Gabby. I know how hard it is to sit & wait. :)

Absolutely nothing wrong in being a kind, sensitive man. We need more of you in this World. :)

So while we wait...how about more details about your set-up. Any gravel? Sand? Plants, real or fake, hollow ornaments? Air stones/bubble walls?

Layer of gravel, probably a hair too much but I've been reducing it. I have 2 live plants, a bush and a plant in the front the enjoy mauling. I had a third but they killed it by eating it so much. Actually shocked the other plant has lived this long, I've had it for over a year. I have one hollow rock that is very smooth (no sharp edges). I have a bubble weird weighted bendy thing that chills on the gravel. Nothing's changed in the past 6 months at least aside from adding the one plant and it dying (didn't die per se, just got unrooted and picked apart so much I gave up).

And haha thank you, everyone in my life knows I'm a big baby. Hell, my mom banned me from watching Bambi as a child. My girlfriend can't understand why I didn't want to watch the Notebook with her.

I know how hard it is to have a fish who is not doing well :) I hope you guys can get this figured out soon, she is such a cutie. I will be watching this thread and thinking of you!

Thank you, one thing I will say about this board apart from all the other forums I'm on is the support is really nice and welcome. It definitely means a lot.

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OK, the hollow rock, remove that. It could be harboring stagnant water/bacteria. It is probably not the reason she has the lump, but could make her sick. I'm just trying to weed out any potential badies. :) And yes remove all but 1/4 to 1/2 inch layer of gravel (over time, not all at once).

Aww, I bawl like a baby watching Bambie!

Edited by Red
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OK, the hollow rock, remove that. It could be harboring stagnant water/bacteria. It is probably not the reason she has the lump, but could make her sick. I'm just trying to weed out any potential badies. :) And yes remove all but 1/4 to 1/2 inch layer of gravel (over time, not all at once).

Aww, I bawl like a baby watching Bambie!

Funny enough, I accidentally knocked it over today while cleaning and ended up sucking everything out underneath it. This happened AFTER she was showing severe symptoms so I know it didn't cause it.

Haha yea, still haven't watched it.

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Another thought...when you feed (twice a day you said right?) each fish should only get amount about twice the size of their eye (eyeball not whole telescope) each meal. If you feel they need more, then add a third small meal. This is just a guideline I learned here, it works for me. Example: Boog gets a chunk of gel food approx. 1/4 inch square twice per day. Fraggle & Alphonso get about 1/2 that. When I feed peas Boog gets one large pea(skinned) Fraggle & Alfonso get 1/2 each. Pellets (small)...Boog gets approx 8-10 in a meal. Fraggle & Alfonso get approx 5 each. Boog is almost 6 inches nose to end of tail. The little guys are approx 3-4 inches.

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Any news?

I am wondering if it could be eggs? Ingrid's vent gets quite swollen a few days before she releases eggs.

Has she pooped? Maybe adding epson in the water could help empty her??? What do you guys think?

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Oh Johnny I just realized you were also the one with the agar problems. I would throw that batch as you explained it was stringy and tough to chew. I am making a new batch today so I will give you the exact directions. :)

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Sorry, I'm east coast so I did have to sleep haha. I woke up to a rather disheartening scene, Gabby was lying on the rocks looking pretty bad (not moving at all but dorsal mostly erect), and Bernie was sitting (hovering) next to her. Bernie did that with another fish I had before she died. Once I turned the light on he started harassing her trying to get her up, nudging her side, swimming into her, and draping over her. She didn't really move for 10 minutes. She was always a real heavy sleeper, for the record, I thought she was dead a few times because I couldn't get her to move. Anyway she eventually started "vacuuming" the ground with her body....and just a few minutes ago started taking laps around the tank and occasional trips running to the top and popping out half way. Here are some videos, one of her on the ground before she appeared to improve, and 2 of her swimming so you can get a sense of her. Her butt definitely seems to weigh her down, not sure if it's apparent in this video.

I took them in HD so they should be somewhat clear.

I also have the tank salted to .1 TPS/gallon (if that doesn't look right, I added roughly 1 TPS per gallon.

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Update: We have poop! She's still swollen in the same area, so I'm not sure what's causing that. I took a video of her...pooping, just to cover all the bases. I pray this is the start to her recovery.

It's green towards the end, but closer to her butt it's pitch black.

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot
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okay she is trying to swim so that is good.

Can you put her in a hospital tank btw? I think Epson might help empty her belly. Have you already used epson salts? You dose it at 1/4teaspoon per 10Gals. It really has to be a small dose. The hospital tank will also allow her to chill away from her buddy so he doesn't stress her.

What I can think of is that she is a little thin. Before the agar issue what and how much were you feeding them? I think adding a few more little feedings throughout the day will help her once she is better.

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Lol that is very good about the poop! Don't feed them, you can do it! 3days will really allow her to purge herself. Then the next few days after that just feed greens to slowly get her back to 'normal food'.

Also, she seems to fight with the volume of water because she feels so 'heavy', so if you have a lower water level in the hospital tank that would be great rest for her. THis might be the reason why you always say she doesn't have energy if you don't feed her. Because she has a huge gorgeous tail and is quite small, so for her swimming in such a high water level is tiring. Is there a way you can reduce the water level? In my tele tank I have it at 30cm.

Oh and if she is pooping now, no need for the epson.

Edited by Captain Findus Goldfish
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Hopsital tank, all I have is a 5 gallon that's been sitting on a shelf for a year, and I don't have extra filtration for it unfortunately. You think she's thin? I was feeding her twice a day, homemade gel. She was eating to capacity, then sometimes a little more. I wouldn't know how to fatten her up if I had to.

I do see what you're saying about the high water level being a problem. I have a few problems with lowering I'll explain

-I wanted it to be 15 gallon per fish, lowering it would really hurt my water:fish ratio, which I know is helpful to health

-If I go more than 4 gallons lower, my one filter loses function

-She looks weighted now, but doesn't normally.

I'm not shooting down your point, I think it's very sensible, just might have some practical limitations with doing it.

She seems to have stopped pooping for now, it was I'd say 1" long. The protrusion is still there.

Thanks a ton for your help so far, just hoping I can get her through this.

Oh, is there any difference between Epsom and say a normal sea/kosher salt? I see Epsom specifically used sometimes and I'm not sure why.

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot
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Yes epson is very different. People use it for aches as baths, or I think to 'suck out' infections. What you would use it for is as a laxative for her.

15gal is very nice but not necessary for your 2 little guys. You are giving them more water to help them grow more because it dilutes the waste better right? But think of it this way - less water = less stress+ less calories used just to swim = more calories used for growth. :) I have 2 rather larger teles in a 120liter tank and it is only filled about 2/3. I just compensate by doing more water changes. I think this works better in the long run - until they are large enough to require and stand a larger water volume.

Can you get an extension for your filter? I suppose this is the reason why it doesn't work with lower water?

Once she is healthy I wouldn't say feed more, but feed more little meals. Goldfish are grazers so little all day long is better then lots at once :) For now just let her purge.

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Gotcha. I'm not over watering them to help them grow per se, I want the environment to be as unstressful as possible, and I'm clearly failing that lol. I'll figure out a way to get the water lower and have everything work. One other problem is it's in my bedroom, and so the water will be dropping roughly 6", which is really freakin' loud. I assume I could construct a ramp or invest in a different filter, but still a consideration.

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Not 100% sure but I would guess you have a worm infestation. It maybe Camallanus worms? what color is the finger like things comming out Gabby's butt?

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Not 100% sure but I would guess you have a worm infestation. It maybe Camallanus worms? what color is the finger like things comming out Gabby's butt?

Coming out of her butt is just poop, it's food colored. Some is black due to I guess constipation. This is the first I've heard of worms as a possibility, never thought of that. I'm not sure what the other symptoms of them are.

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The black poop was probably the spinach, it is quite dark. :) The the lighter green was peas. All a good sign that she is getting her food through her. Keep working at removing gravel & that hollow rock. You still have way too much gravel. Some fish are more sensitive to changes in water quality than others. While your params are good, we don't test for nasty bacteria that may be lurking in the gravel. Also maybe up the water changes to 2 x 80% per week. Maybe more clean water will help. Water changes never hurt. While removig the water, remove more gravel every time. Bare bottom for a while might be a good idea.

Patti, the photo with the things coming out the butt was not Johnny's fish, but a photo he found of similar swelling. His fish has no things coming out.

Hope Trinket or Stakos comes on soon to get their take on this!

Edited by Red
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Oh, if when stirring up/removing gravel there is a lot of gunk stirred up, maybe moving the fish into a holding container would be a good idea. Don't worry about your BBs, most of them are in the filter. You could put a few cups of the gravel into some new pantyhose/media bags and leave on the bottom of the tank too.

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I see why patti may think this. I was kinda leaning that way a little my self. Goldfish sometimes will bottom sit if they are infested. But I don't see any redness in the butt area.

I'm thinking the best thing right now is the fasting, then pea with Epsom salt. Then lets see if she goes back to normal. If not then we might have to figure out what this is...

just my :twocents:

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I see why patti may think this. I was kinda leaning that way a little my self. Goldfish sometimes will bottom sit if they are infested. But I don't see any redness in the butt area.

I'm thinking the best thing right now is the fasting, then pea with Epsom salt. Then lets see if she goes back to normal. If not then we might have to figure out what this is...

just my :twocents:

I treated her with Prazi towards the end of last summer. I mean I have no reason to think it's an infestation as she's really not showing other signs. She's not like, flashing, like you said the butt isn't red at all. I'm not ruling it out one bit, just leaning towards the constipation. This morning she took 3 poops. I'll check her out when I get home and post updates.

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I see why patti may think this. I was kinda leaning that way a little my self. Goldfish sometimes will bottom sit if they are infested. But I don't see any redness in the butt area.

I'm thinking the best thing right now is the fasting, then pea with Epsom salt. Then lets see if she goes back to normal. If not then we might have to figure out what this is...

just my :twocents:

I treated her with Prazi towards the end of last summer. I mean I have no reason to think it's an infestation as she's really not showing other signs. She's not like, flashing, like you said the butt isn't red at all. I'm not ruling it out one bit, just leaning towards the constipation. This morning she took 3 poops. I'll check her out when I get home and post updates.

I understand hun thats why I said this after :thumb:

I'm thinking the best thing right now is the fasting, then pea with Epsom salt. Then lets see if she goes back to normal. If not then we might have to figure out what this is...

just my :twocents:

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I think Patti & Koko are talking about internal worms/parasites. This is possible, and something we will need to think about, if the fasting and diet modification do not resolve the issue.

I am still leaning toward food impaction/major constipation. Give her time to get rid of the contents of her digestive tract.

Do you have any Metro-Meds? If not, could you order some from goldfishconnection.com, along with Jumpstart? These are good to have on hand.

Edited by dnalex
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No I understand, I apologize if I'm coming off as confrontational, just trying to pour out as much info as humanly possible. I'm genuinely not trying to be at all, but I realize it could be. So let this stand as a disclaimer that I'm 100% open to everything, but if something is brought up I will try to give as much info on the topic as I can. But I can totally be told otherwise and would be just as happy. :)

Dnalex, would the Prazi have eradicated those? I think it's a very plausible route, just still leaning towards constipation. I don't have those but I can order them. I assume my LFS would be severely unlikely to have them?

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot
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