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Johnnyonthespot

Bottom sitting, swollen near anus, etc....dying :(

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Thanks, Spillie. So do I :(

Captain, I wonder if this has been impeding improvement? I somehow got the notion to ignore the directions and go 4 on, 3 off. So this morning was her last dose of this session. I came home today and she looks lousy, and the bump looks bigger. I have no clue what's going on :( Bernie also seems very throw off by this, and today has been pushing her around when she lays down. I don't think he likes it. I'm hoping I didn't screw this up beyond repair, and I'm really worried that it got worse today and I won't be treating again until Tuesday night.

HPIM2944.jpg

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Sorry I've not been on before this. First off don't worry about the fact you fed her 4 days of meds. It wouldn't mess up the treatment. :)

I'm not sure why she is feeling worse. Could you retest your water params just in case?

Also if I remember right this time around you gave her some extra food right? Maybe she is too full which could certainly explain her feeling lousy. You might want to fast them for one day and then feed them peas the next day.

As for the lump I don't think it is actually bigger but if she has been bottom sitting a lot it might make the lump change shape which gives the illusion of it being bigger. :unsure:

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No worries, I just appreciate the help. So I did retest, and something interesting came up. Left is tank, right is tap:

HPIM2956.jpg

I've never had a difference before. My tank literally contains gravel, a potted plan, a bush, and a rock. I'm salted to .1%. The difference to me looks like .2-.6, I can't really tell. Left seems pretty exact to 7.2, and right could be a little less than 7.6 but not sure. Could the meds have cause this?

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot

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Tanks do become more acidic with time, that's pretty normal, actually. One of the reasons regular and frequent water changes are so helpful is that they essentially rebuffed the system from the organic acids that come from broken down waste products from the fish and microorganisms.

The meds might be contributing to that, but I'd expect aged tank water to be slightly more acidic.

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I'm not an expert on water chemistry. :) But arctic mama is right with time the water in the tank does change. I don't think the difference is big enough to cause problems but it is worth checking regularly from now on, just in case.

How are the fish doing today?

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Tanks do become more acidic with time, because the buffering ions get consumed by cycle bacteria, gradually softening the water. Also, nitrate is a weak acid. That's why we always encourage buffering your water to a certain capacity if you have soft water, AND to change at least 50% or more water weekly :)

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Well I'm currently doing 50% twice a week. So should I do something else or add more? I'm fine doing more. I've also been adding koi clay but didn't do it today during the change. Bernie looks ok, Gabby looks like crap. She's been sitting I'd say 95%. He's currently sitting with her, but again seems to hover more than actually sit. They got peas last night, I omitted a morning feeding and they'll get peas again tonight, then back to gel until Tuesday night. I just really hope this is progressing, I'm starting to get more worried since she's been pretty bad for a while now. I don't think she showed any progress during week 3 of treatment.

Also, I still have no clue if they're fin clamping. Is it something with all fins, just dorsal, just some? Is it obvious? Sometimes their dorsals just aren't erect...but most of the time her's is straight up. Bernie when he "sits" near her lets his dorsal wilt a bit, but I don't know if it's clamping.

Edited by JohnnyOnTheSpot

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I think your water change schedule is pretty good, although of course extra water changes are never bad lol.

When I look for clamping, I look at the pelvic fins. These fins are normally nicely open and spread out, so you can really see when they clamp.

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But I mean should I do anything to combat the PH? And ok, that makes sense. I've literally never seen those even remotely clamped. Thank you. I just...this absolutely freaks me out. And it's been alike 3 weeks and right now, it's as bad as day one. I just don't know what's going on.

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The pH difference is not big enough to cause undue concerns at the moment, and still allows you to keep your twice weekly WC routine.

Once the fish are back to complete health again, perhaps you can visit this issue, but for now, just concentrate on the fish.

You are getting excellent advise from caitie. I couldn't even begin to add anything else.

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I know this is really hard on you. :( The trouble is that with parasites even if we don't think she is improving it is necessary to at least finish doing the 4 week treatment. You need to remember that at least she is not worse than she was which means that the treatment is working even if only to stop the progression of her problem. :)

On that last picture you posted I see that the lump looks smaller (to me at least) and she still has very good color, fins are nice and erect. All these are very good signs. Are her gills still a nice healthy pink? Does she look like she has any trouble breathing? Gasping, etc?

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Well I appreciate everything everyone's done so far, just want to fix this :( Her color hasn't changed at all. The ONLY thing I noticed changing originally was this weird spot near her butt that looks like a loss of pigmentation of the scale versus a growth or anything like that. I'm sure it's made it's way into one of the 500 pics I've posted. Her gills seem normal, but it's hard to see the color against her body since it's not too strong of a difference. But definitely look normal.

Breathing seems normal, no gasping. She's been a yapper since I've gotten her and is still doing it normally.

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All good then. :) What you can try if you want, is to add 1 Tablespoon of aquarium salt for every 10 gallons. That would be 3 Tablespoons in your tank. This dosage is not medicinal, it won't interfere with the treatment either. This is a tonic dosage. If she is feeling poorly because of the treatment then this might help get her up and moving. Fish are a lot like humans , when we are taking antibiotics we generally feel worse before we feel better.

I've done this with my own fish when they were being treated with the Jungle AP. Might be worth a try to see if it doesn't help her deal with the treatment better. :)

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This guy = baffled. Woke up, she was sitting. Fed her, she sat during eating. Came back an hour later and she was swimming around, happy as can be, and the bump is basically gone. Huh? As I type this of course she sat down, because Bernie sat down...not they're both up again. I'm so confused. She looks great, and the bump, to me, is non-existent. Here's photographic evidence:

HPIM2973.jpg

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Welcome to the world of parasites. :P She will probably go back and forth for a little while yet, but at least she is doing well now. Just keep doing as you are and they will soon be back to normal. :)

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How much Jungle AP do you have left of your own supply, Johnny? I hadn't done anything about the other bottle, because I want to leave open the possibility that if you need, you have it there.

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Caitie I'm so sad I've been missing out on this joy my whole life haha.

Alex, I haven't even used like 10% of the bottle, and it's been 3 weeks for her and 2 for Bernie. I think I'm safe shipping one out to you, but I do appreciate you thinking that way :)

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Caitie I'm sorry I didn't respond to your salting recommendation. Yesterday when I did their change, I ended up salting to .1% in case she was constipated. Whatever 1 TSP/Gallon is.

They're still looking good, it seems the lump might be starting to come back, which I guess makes sense. Too early to tell though and I'm not honestly not sure. I know I'm not out of the woods, just hoping I at least keep seeing improvement. Thanks for all of the help so far :)

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Update on my little weasels. Gabby's bump has come back a tiny bit. She's been bottom sitting regularly the past two days, and Bernie was down with her most of today. This is her last week of treatment, but I have an awful feeling I'm going to have to extend it. What's the protocol on that? Like, when can I safely end treatment, and how long can I do a treatment like this? Time limits?

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Update.

The kids have been looking great. I'm not noticing any return of the growth on Gabby, but I'm really not 100% comfortable saying these is nothing there. I went through her 4 week cycle, but Bernie has another week left in his. Is there any harm in running an extra week on her just to be safe?

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Hey sorry I missed your last update, it's been a bit crazy around here. :krazy:

Anyways glad to hear they are doing well. :) Go ahead and feed the extra week it won't harm her.

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So update. They both look great, I'm hoping this is gone or almost gone.

Gabby looks like she's grown, actually, which makes me really happy.

Now I have a question. Gabby has always been prone to bottom sitting and various problems, and didn't seem to be growing as well as Bernie. How long could this have been affecting her, and just lying dormant? I mean, she's never been in perfect health.

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:clapping: I'm so glad they are both doing so well. She could have had the problem for a very long time, but she was able to keep it under control probably because you take very good care of them. But that would certainly explain why she wasn't growing as much and was generally weaker. I had Hercules for a year and a half before he got quite ill and I finally treated him for worms. Until then he had been relatively healthy tho he also had his periods of bottom sitting.

Just be prepared that in a few weeks or months you might need to treat them again. I hope not but it does sometimes take more than one treatment. :(

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