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filter preventing treatment


Pontosfan

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All three of my little goldies are now in their knew tank. unfortunately, the move was a bit stressful for them and now two have blood in their fins. :( Normally I'd just add medicine having caught it early however, these new filters that came with the tank are stopping me. You see, the medcine bottle says I must take out all carbon and zeolite filter media which with the Fluval Plus I'm used to would be no problem. These new filters are Marina Slim S20 Power Filters, and the only media in them is carbon and zeolite. So what do I do? Take the carbon and zeolite pads out (leaving the filters running but empty)?

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First of all, you don't use medicine right away. Having red streaks in the tail can be from water quality or stress - none of them requires medications. Adding meds too quickly can harm the fish on the long run!

What are the parameters in the new tank? Did you transfer your old filter/s or do you have to cycle the new tank?

Normally I would suggest to salt the tank, but not knowing where your tank is cycle-wise and what the parameters are, salt could end up being harmful :(

Don't beat me, but could you fill out the questions at the top? I am especially interested in the part about parameters, tank size, water change schedule and filtration (fill out everything though, just in case!). These are important to know before taking the next step :)

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I agree with Fang, I wouldn't add meds :) I would also suggest not using cartridges in your filter, the carbon is really not necessary unless you are removing meds from the water, and making your own filter media will save you money in the long run. Check out this link: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/94732-simple-media-setup-for-hob-filters/

Edited by tithra
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I disagree, everything I've read has said that you should start treatment as soon as a symtop occurs. I'll fill the form in anyway, as best I can. Although all any help and insight would be welcome, I'm not really asking "what's wrong?" but "how do I administer the medicine?"


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level -
  • * Nitrite Level - 0-0.5
  • * Nitrate level - 15
  • * Ph Level, Tank - 6.8 (If possible, KH 3d, GH - 8d and chloramines - not sure what you mean by chloramines, but the chlorine level is 0)
  • * Ph Level, Tap - 6.4 (If possible, KH 3d, GH and chloramines - 1.5)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Tetra Strips
  • * Water temperature?
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? not sure how manly gals, but i know it's 160Litres. Ruuning less than a week.
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? See original post.
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Not changed it at all yet.

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? See previous question.
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 fish, aprox 2, 3 and 3 and a half inches.
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Stress coat +
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Normally I feed them Hikari lionhead sinking pelets, but for the ast couple of weeks i've not been able to get hold of any so i've been feeding them Tetra goldfish gold japan mini sticks (sinking).
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? All three are new to the tank, but they're from the same tank.
  • * Any medications added to the tank? no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. none
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? bloody streaks in tail fins
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Occaisinaly sitting on the botom.

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I agree with Fang, I wouldn't add meds :) I would also suggest not using cartridges in your filter, the carbon is really not necessary unless you are removing meds from the water, and making your own filter media will save you money in the long run. Check out this link: http://www.kokosgold...or-hob-filters/

Ok, so i take out the carbon and then what? the only other ones available would be more zeolite ones which would still prevent me from using the medicine. If i took them out completely theree would be nothing in the filter, so it would just be sucking up and pumping out dirty water.

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I agree with Fang, I wouldn't add meds :) I would also suggest not using cartridges in your filter, the carbon is really not necessary unless you are removing meds from the water, and making your own filter media will save you money in the long run. Check out this link: http://www.kokosgold...or-hob-filters/

Ok, so i take out the carbon and then what? the only other ones available would be more zeolite ones which would still prevent me from using the medicine. If i took them out completely theree would be nothing in the filter, so it would just be sucking up and pumping out dirty water.

Take a look at the link, it shows you how to set it up. You do not need a cartridge :) I would not recommend using carbon or zeolite. You just need to buy filter padding/floss and some sort of ceramic media and put it in your filter in replace of any cartridge.

Could you post a picture of the streaking? Veins showing in the fins really can just be stress related (e.g. stress of moving from one tank to another) and will typically resolve on its own without medications.

Edited by tithra
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I agree with Fang, I wouldn't add meds :) I would also suggest not using cartridges in your filter, the carbon is really not necessary unless you are removing meds from the water, and making your own filter media will save you money in the long run. Check out this link: http://www.kokosgold...or-hob-filters/

Ok, so i take out the carbon and then what? the only other ones available would be more zeolite ones which would still prevent me from using the medicine. If i took them out completely theree would be nothing in the filter, so it would just be sucking up and pumping out dirty water.

Take a look at the link, it shows you how to set it up. You do not need a cartridge :) I would not recommend using carbon or zeolite. You just need to buy filter padding/floss and some sort of ceramic media and put it in your filter in replace of any cartridge.

Could you post a picture of the streaking? Veins showing in the fins really can just be stress related (e.g. stress of moving from one tank to another) and will typically resolve on its own without medications.

1) I only understood about half of what was in that link

2) I've never heard of any of the products mentioned

3) There's no way that would fit inside my filters.

4) there's no way I'd trust myself to just make something to put in a filter

I absolutely agree that I don;t need carbon or zeolite, but if that is the only media created to go in the filter then therefore, if i take it out, the filter will be empty and just be sucking up dirty water to spit it back out. Like I keep saying. Will try and get pics.

EDIT: Tried, but I can't get a good enough picture. There are veins showing up, but there are definte streaks of blood too.

Edited by Pontosfan
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How does the filter provide sufficient biological filteration. Thats the most important thing a filter does. Maybe its time to replace those filters then.

Can you please also provide what the medicine you want to add, or what you think the issue is (apart from the symptoms.... i.e. red streaks).

I dont have too much experience with goldfish, but the folks above (Tithra & Fang) have a lot more experience and might be able to comment on whether there is a better way to treat the fish which might not require you to remove the media from your filter.

Edited by rhorizon74
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1) I only understood about half of what was in that link

2) I've never heard of any of the products mentioned

3) There's no way that would fit inside my filters.

4) there's no way I'd trust myself to just make something to put in a filter

I absolutely agree that I don;t need carbon or zeolite, but if that is the only media created to go in the filter then therefore, if i take it out, the filter will be empty and just be sucking up dirty water to spit it back out. Like I keep saying. Will try and get pics.

1&2) Once you do a quick google or ebay search for filter floss and ceramic media/bio media etc then you will be able to understand it more.

3) It can fit in any size or shape filter, thats the great thing about it, you can fit it together in many different ways no matter what typ of filter you have.

4) Do you fully understand the whole ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle? That will help you to understand how easy it is to 'diy' a very effective filter by changing the insides :)

You mention this being a new tank and filters, did you also transfer your old filter over for the time being until the new filters get their cycle established? Just mentioning this as your info doesnt contain your ammonia reading and also says that you seem to have a nitrite reading which will be stressful to your fishies.

Also, I don't mean to be rude but you are coming across as very hostile towards some very experienced and helpful people :(

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You can cut open the cartridge and dump out the carbon and replace the cartridge.

I would still recommend not use the cartridges though, you can absolutely fit some filter floss/padding in that filter, you can buy sheets of it and then cut it to fit your filter, and put it where the cartridge would typically sit.

Cartridges are not recommended because of the carbon they contain they need to be replaced monthly (in order to keep the carbon activated), but by changing your cartridge you lose your cycle. It's better to use filter media that you cut yourself, then just rinse it in some tank water monthly to clean it. It will last a long time and does not need to be replaced until it begins falling apart.

I also want to note that your Ph is really dangerously low for your fish. Your kh is also low indicating that your Ph is may not be stable, and could drop even lower which would be deadly to your fish. You need to buffer your water :) Seachem Gold Buffer or Alkaline buffer are two excellent buffers that are readily available.

Edited by tithra
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I disagree, everything I've read has said that you should start treatment as soon as a symtop occurs. I'll fill the form in anyway, as best I can. Although all any help and insight would be welcome, I'm not really asking "what's wrong?" but "how do I administer the medicine?"

But that is exactly the problem.

Resorting to medicine often causes more harm than good. As mentioned, red streaks are usually caused by stress or water quality, both of which do not require medications to be treated. :)

It is the issue that is causing the streaks in the first place, that needs to be fixed. Just putting in medicine to get rid of a symptom is never a good idea. Fix the root cause, and the problem usually fixes itself faster than you think.

I see your tank is showing some nitrite. What is the ammonia? That is the most important part. Usually we recommend adding salt to 0.1% and doing a large water change to bringing all the toxins as close down to 0 as possible. That usually does the trick within a day or two.

But without knowing if you have ammonia, I cannot recommend doing so, as adding salt to a tank with ammonia makes the ammonia even more toxic to the fish! :yikes

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OK, well, thanks for tring to help, guys, but you're clearly not understanding what I'm saying. Never mind, I'll go to the fish shop tomorrow and ask there.

I have no idea what the ammonia level is as the test strips I used don;t show that. I've never used salt before but have used medicines.

I've given you all the information I have and still all i get is people telling me to do something to the filter for which it is not designed.

Edited by Pontosfan
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A buffer for your water, if you read my post above I commented that your Ph and kh are both very low, dangerously low. This could kill your fish. You need to buffer your water to bring your Ph up and to increase your kh so that your Ph will remain stable between water changes.

Seachem gold buffer and Seachem alkaline buffer are two good ones that you should be able to find locally.

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Well, considering this is the saem water, from the same tap I've always used and they've done fine by it for years, i think a buffer is the least of my concerns for now. I'm more concerned about the blood in their tails.

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I've given you all the information I have and still all i get is people telling me to do something to the filter for which it is not designed.

Actually, they are trying to offer an alternative that is both cheaper and better for your fish. The company that makes the filter wants you to continue to buy expensive cartridge refills. But you can make your own, and they are cheaper and work better. Your cartridge is basically a piece of plastic that holds some floss (the white material) and some chemical. You can keep the plastic, buy the white material and add something extra (like some pieces of ceramic that are designed to hold the good bacteria your tank needs), and viola! Diy filter insert that works better and costs less.

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Dude you really are rude... You have to remember the folks on this forum are not paid to give you advice. They are doing that because they are part of this community and want to help others out. You don't have to take their advice, but at least dont be rude.

Your question is dumb. You want to pump medicines into your tank and want to take out your filter media.

If you use common sense, without any filter media, you might as well switch of your filters. Since your filters dont seem to be cycled, doesnt seem like it would matter anyways. Unless you can get an established filter (with only floss) from somebody you can trust, your fishes are not going to be in good shape if you medicate.

Edited by rhorizon74
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There is no way you can run a tank only using carbon and zeolite. Both of which have to be constantly changed, which means you will never cycle your tank. I run zeolite in my hospital tanks and I replace it daily.

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the nitrogen cycle and see that not having a cycled tank will cause stress and red streaks in fish. Nothing which will be fixed with meds.

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I've given you all the information I have and still all i get is people telling me to do something to the filter for which it is not designed.

Actually, they are trying to offer an alternative that is both cheaper and better for your fish. The company that makes the filter wants you to continue to buy expensive cartridge refills. But you can make your own, and they are cheaper and work better. Your cartridge is basically a piece of plastic that holds some floss (the white material) and some chemical. You can keep the plastic, buy the white material and add something extra (like some pieces of ceramic that are designed to hold the good bacteria your tank needs), and viola! Diy filter insert that works better and costs less.

Actually, they have ceremic in them.

Dude you really are rude... You have to remember the folks on this forum are not paid to give you advice. They are doing that because they are part of this community and want to help others out. You don't have to take their advice, but at least dont be rude.

Dude, I never said they were paid and i fail to see where I;ve been rude. I think I've polite and friendly even though I get the feeling people on this forum don;t like helping me and the fact that my fish might be dying.

Your question is dumb. You want to pump medicines into your tank and want to take out your filter media.

If you use common sense, without any filter media, you might as well switch of your filters. Since your filters dont seem to be cycled, doesnt seem like it would matter anyways. Unless you can get an established filter (with only floss) from somebody you can trust, your fishes are not going to be in good shape if you medicate.

No, that comment is "dumb". If you'd read my original post, you would know that I don;t want to take out my filter media. The medicine says i need to take out all carbon and zeolite filter media. The only filter media that is made for this brand has carbon or zeolite in it. So I'm asking how do I administer the medicine. How many times can I keep saying this?

There is no way you can run a tank only using carbon and zeolite. Both of which have to be constantly changed, which means you will never cycle your tank. I run zeolite in my hospital tanks and I replace it daily.

Ok, why don;t you tell that to Marina and Pets at home who sold me these filters, which were specifically desgned for use with this tank?

Maybe you should familiarize yourself with the nitrogen cycle and see that not having a cycled tank will cause stress and red streaks in fish. Nothing which will be fixed with meds.

As far as I'm aware, the tank was cycled. I used Nutrafin Cycle and was told that I could add fish once the course was over.

I like this forum. I really do. The people on it seem nice and friendly, I get to see pictures of lots of pretty goldfish and people are always eager to help others. Except that it seems whenever I've asked for help I get this. People moaning at me, putting me down and then accusing me of being rude. Well, let's just forget I said anything. Go back to playing your games of "Have you ever..." and telling each other how pretty their goldfish are. I'll try and care for my fish as best I can without the help you all seem to offer to each other so readily.

Edited by Pontosfan
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Please, listen to the advice you were given. It really is good advice. It will help your fish, and you. Come on, it's not complicated, people are just trying to help. Your gonna get a bad reputation around here if you don't atleast try to use the advice you've been given :)

Edited by pandamanda111
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Just because something is supposedly specifically made for something doesn't mean it actually is good.

Marina makes 2.5 gallon goldfish tanks after all. And that is no home for goldfish, as you know. They do need 10 gallons each minimum! Just as an example about how you can not trust those things. Just like you cannot trust most people that work at LFS. The majority of people really has no clue when it comes to keeping goldfish.

Nutrafin Cycle helps establish a cycle quicker, but don't forget that these products are intented for tropical tanks where there is much much less bio load than with goldfish. These products work for lightly stocked tanks, but in fully stocked goldfish tanks you will see problems - as you see with your tank still showing nitrites, which should not be there in a fully cycled tank. :)

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The fact that you have nitrites indicates that your tank is not, in fact, cycled, and add to that you have no idea what your ammonia reading is but I bet it's not 0. I think you've gotten good advice here, and it's unfortunate that you'd rather argue than follow it. The bloody streaks in the fins is probably a result of stress from being moved to an uncycled tank and I don't know of any medicine you could buy that would fix that, but hey, it's your call, and I'm sure the pet store would be happy to sell you something. When I STOPPED listening to the fish store advice and started listening to the advice here, my fish did much better. Just saying.

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. Go back to playing your games of "Have you ever..." and telling each other how pretty their goldfish are. I'll try and care for my fish as best I can without the help you all seem to offer to each other so readily.

Hey now, be nice :) you joined this forum, and they're trying to help. This is a friendly, family forum, and you have no place to come in and tell us what we're doing wrong.

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