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Guest Indiglo

One Of My Two G/f Has Been Laying At The Bottom

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Guest Indiglo

Ok, i have two small g/f in a 10 gallon tank. One ranchu and one oranda. For the past few days, my ranchu has been spening a LOT of time in the bottom corner of my tank. He just lays there (upright) for hours at a time and is very slow and almost completely unresponsive to me. He is definately not healthy and is worrying me alot lately. My oranda is acting 100% normal which confuses me the most.

My tank is 10 gallon tank running a penguin 125 filter and a 12 inch bubble wand. The tank is only 3 weeks old and running and is not cycled.

My ammonia levels are at about 1.0 ppm and i do a 40-50% water change and gravel siphen every day. ALthough i DID have way too much gravel in the tank for awhile and just took out a lot of it. I had 15 lbs of gravel (about 3 inches deep) and am now down to about 1 inch. I found a LOT of uneaten food in the gravel and in my fake plants last time i cleaned and made me decide to take a lot of gravel out. I am using tetra-aqua aquasafe conditioners with every water change. I have no hollow ornaments and all my water readings seem to be fine. My ph may be a LITTLE bit low at 6.8. Everthing else seems normal from what i can read from the crappy test strips i have. My nitrate and nitrite are at 0 as they have not reached that cycling stage in my tank yet.

Also a day or so ago i have noticed a tear in the fish's back fin. The rest of the fins look ok and the fins on my oranda(healthy fish) seem fine as well. Also i have seen my fish flashing a little bit when he does get up and swim around.

I think i may have the problem narrowed down to Swimbladder problems causing sinking or a parasite or flukes. I'm new to fish so i'm not completely sure but have been reading a lot lately and i see a lot of similar symptoms in other posts.

My fish first started acting weird when i added some new live plants to the tank, i have since then removed them and thrown away. I did rinse off the plants in a saltwater solution for a bit first but did not use bleach as i read now i should have.

I hope someone can please help me diagnose my fish and help me to treat him. I do NOT want to loose this fish! I will answer any more questions that i need to but please help me!!!!!!!!!!!

-Thanks in advance

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hello and welcome to the board! :hi

unfortunately, your goldies are suffering from "new tank syndrome".daily water changes with temperature matched water will help greatly. essentially, you want to keep the ammonia levels down to less than 1ppm.

you can add aquarium salt to the tune of 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. disolve it in a cup of tank water before adding it to the aquarium. this will help your goldies deal with the nitrite levels once they start rising. youll need to add the salt to the new water each time you do a water change to keep the theraputic levels steady.

are you using a dechlorinator? if not you should get some as most water supplies contain chlorine. also, try to get a brand that boasts "detoxifies nitrites". prime or amquel are both good ones.

incidently, what is the ph of your tap water?

if you need any clarification on any of this, dont hesitate to post back! :D

Edited by toothless

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also, the damage to the fins may be finrot setting in from poor water quality. once you have the water params under control, the healing will begin. the addition of aquarium salt should help the finrot as well.

good luck! :)

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Guest Indiglo

Hi, thanks for the speedy reply! I have been trying my hardest to keep my water clean as i've been doing daily water changes with temperature matched water primed with Tetra Aqua AquaSafe which i read on this board was the best....

My ph out of the tap is also 6.8...or better yet, the ph is the same out of the tap as it is in the tank, i have a hard time reading the test strips that i got.

ALso i bought a better filter today to help with the water quality, i was using a top-fin 10 and now i'm using a penguin 125 biowheel.....it seems to be much better quality then what i had......

i will try to add the salt now and see what it does to help.... also i think i may have been overfeeding as both of my fish seem pretty constipated. They have poo trails that are about 3x as long as their bodies. I am going to start them on a pea diet tonight and keep that going for a few days at least and see if that helps any.

The main thing that i dont understand is that my other fish (a smaller redcap oranda) is swimming a lot and just acting 100%! He seems very healthy and energetic.

anyways, i'll stop babbling now and go ahead and salt my tank...

ALSO do you know where i can purchase some bio-spira online? i cant find any in any pet stores around here and i dont know where to find it online...

THANKS AGAIN so much for your speedy reply and all the help!!!

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your larger goldie may be having more problems because he is bigger and passes more ammonia through his gills. jmo.

your ph is a little low but at least its stable (tap and tank)

you seem to be doing a good job so far. just keep those ammonia levels down. pretty soon youll have nitrites starting to rise. after that it could be a while before your tank is cycled.

as far as getting bio-spira, you could either try here:http://fishstoretn.com/bio_spira.html

or you could shop around for better deals. just type in "bio-spira" into your search engine and shop/ compare!

hope this helps :D

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Hi and welcome! Keep your old filter running on the tank along with the new one (I love my Biowheel 125 btw! Ive had it 2 years and recommend it all the time!). Even though the old one wasnt great, in the time it was running it built up some of those good nitrifying bacteria in it, and that can speed the cycle of your tank along.

One other thing, now that youre down to just a bit of gravel, lay off the gravel vacuumings. If you must do it about once a week, but by doing it so often you may be sucking out a lot of the good bacteria that are starting to grow in your gravel! Its a good idea to be doing those daily water changes though. Keep the ammonia as low as possible, even if it means doing more than one water change daily.

As for Biospira, if you cant find it try Cycle. Its not as great as Biospira but at least it is something. My friend swore by it and sold it to all her customers. So its at least worth a try.

I would say your fish's problems are a combo of the overfeeding/constipation and the high ammonia levels. Keep your water quality good and it should help them. Cut back on your feeding, definitely! Just feed a very small amount once a day, what they can finish within a few minutes. That will help to lower your ammonia level too. As long as your tank has been running you definitely should be seeing nitrite now. I would also recommend probably the dropper-style water tests. I just love the ones made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Theyre the cheapest out there and are super easy to read and very accurate. I use them on all my tanks. :)

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Guest Indiglo

jsrtist, and toothless: thank you so much for the replies and the help you have provided me! I woke up this morning and my ranchu is up and swimming about happily. I think my main problem was with all the gravel i had in the tank because when i moved my 2 fake plants and stirred up the gravel under them, there was about 10 pieces of uneaten food just chilling and looking nasty and i can only imagine what they were doing to my water. Both my fish are on a diet at the moment to help with the rest of their constipation woes.

ALso this morning, i added my top-fin 10 filter back into my tank that is after i had to modify my hood a bit with a dremil! =P ... ALthough i left the filter out over night and it dried out so i assume this killed all my beneficial bactieria. If this is the case, is it pointless for me to run both filters in such a 10 gallon tank, or should i just assume the more filtration, the better. The current does not bother my fish at all and they both seem to enjoy playing in the stream.

I am currently trying to find the dropper tests, i have the ammonia dropper test by aquar. pharm. and i love it. it's easy to read and just seems nice. I cant find any of the other tests at my pet stores. Also can not find bio-spira anywhere online! The link you posted toothless is currently out of stock! I have one more pet store i will check at later. hopefully i will have better luck...

anyways, let me stop babbling and once again say thank you to the both of you for all your help and advice! i think my fish may pull out afterall!

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indiglo, thats great news! im so glad that your goldies seem to be doing better! keep up on those water changes and post back with any progress that is going on! :hi

paul

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Guest Indiglo

well, every time i post on here that my fish is getting better, he starts doing something else weird that makes me worry. He (my ranchu) is no longer resting on the bottomof the tank, but is now floating in the same spot since i've been home from work almost at the top of the tank. He is about 3 inches below the surface in the back corner just hovering and basicly "treading water" in one spot. Although i am not as worried as i was when he was just sitting in the bottom but he still is not acting "Normal". I did a 10-20% waterchange and he did not change his behavior any.

Also, what SHOULD my ammonia level be at while i'm trying to cycle? I imagine that i need 'some' in there to feed the newly forming bacteria but i dont want to have too much or too little. I"ve read so many different numbers and am not sure what to leave it at. My levels now are at 1.0ppm and i do not let it get over 1.0 ppm. Is this too low or still too high? I've seen my fish flashing a little bit over the past hour and am thinking this is still water quality problems...

This is really bugging me, i wish my tank would just cycle allready! =) I do not have time to go on a quest for bio-spira this week because i have midterms all week!!!! Ah, maybe this weekend...

-Thanks again..

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have you tried to get the established filter media from your local fish store? you can cycle your tank in as little as 1 week this way. also some gravel from an established tank with an undergravel filter works too. just make sure that it is from a "healthy tank". you can put the gravel into a peice of stocking or pantyhose and tie it off. then place it into your new filter, behind the filter pad.

your goldie is just having a hard time dealing with the ammonia. you need to try and get that tank cycled as fast as you can. if he is still flashing after the tank is cycled, he may have some sort of parasite. but, we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

maybe somebody else could put some input in as far as what their recommendation for keeping the ammonia levels at when cycling w/fish. personally, i wouldnt let it climb any higher than .5ppm.

i hope this helps! :unsure:

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Guest Indiglo

newest update, although it may change when i get home from work but as of last night and this morning my fish seem much better, he is once again energetic and playful like he was before he got sick. My water looks crystal clear today with the work of the 2 filters. and i have not seen him flashing at all in the time that i was watching him....

The new problem is however, the same fish that was sick is now trying to eat my smaller oranda =( He's been chasing him around the tank for a few hours last night nipping at his rear fins which are starting to get a little bit ragged on the edges. GOod thing my oranda is faster then the ranchu and makes for an interesting hting to watch, but i dont want eithor of them getting hurt.

Saddest part of the story is that when my ranchu was sick, the oranda seemed to be concerned with the other's behavior, it would spend a lot of time with it trying to bump it when it was resting on the bottom and just seemed to be worried. I know this is probably not the case, but it seemed like it to me. BUt now he is better and trying to eat him! Silly fish... if it's not one thing, it's another!

As for ammonia i'll be doing a larger water change tonight when i get home then what i usually do, see if i can get it to around .5ppm. Also will try not to vaccume my gravel as much. I dont have any good "local" pet stores very close to me. I have vvvvv and a "local" shop but most of their fish have ich an refuse to put anything in my tank from their store. There is a very good store that i know about but i am too busy with midterms to drive up there until this weekend....I really wish this cycle nonsence would hurry up and get going!

-Thanks again

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