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Smokey has a new white spot...what to do now :(


Kayla102968

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I've PM'd Trinket to make sure she sees this thread. I hope she will be able to take a look at it sometime soon.

In the mean time, keep up with what you've been doing.

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Tonight I noticed that his white spot on his nose is more pink and less white. I don't know if this is good or bad. It looks like an indent in his nose now...you can see it really well if you stop the video at 2:24.

I don't want my fish to die :(

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Aw, what a cute fishie. He swims well and seems very active and happy generally, just that nasty white thing!

I think the salt was a good idea :) I also think you should wipe down the sides of the tank to get some of the very small traces of oily like stuff off the sides as comets and single tail fish are notorious for rubbing their mouths on the tank sides and picking up fungal spores and bacteria from there. It may be how he got this.

There is also one other thing you can do which may help. A topical dab of HP or Meth blue or another disinfectant type (non antibiotic) application. HP is quite safe near the mouth. You need to soak a Q tip in it and gently lift him to the surface so that only his head is out to apply it. Then hold (not clamping gills and making sure your hands are wet or coated in stress coat) him to apply and wait for 10 secs (count to 10) for the topical application to dry a little. Then quickly release him :).

Only do this once.

You could also increase aeration in your tank. It does help!!

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Thanks Trinket for all the information. He is hard to catch and hold since he is so fast and strong...I'll see what I can do. HP is just regular hydrogen peroxide liquid (for humans) right? I didn't realize that the brown algae in the tank can also host bad bacteria and fungus too. Is the best way to remove it when I'm doing a water change or can I do it with a tank cleaning sponge and it will just stick to the sponge and not get introduced into the water?

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This evening we are going to try the hydrogen peroxide on his white spot on his face. Today I noticed that he is spitting out all his antibiotic food. He grabs one piece at a time and then spits it all out (whole...not chewed at all)....if I just give him one piece and wait...he spits it out too. This can't be good.

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Let us know how goes with the peroxide.

Trinket, which waterborne meds would Kayla possibly need, if she were to need it? I'm asking just so that she can be prepared.

Kayla, try breaking the pellets into smaller pieces and soak briefly first. I think he may have irritations in the mouth.

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Just got finished with the peroxide. It went well I think, but now the white spot looks bigger (probably because of the peroxide bubbles?). Here is a video of Smokey right after the peroxide was put on his nose with a q-tip:

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This evening we are going to try the hydrogen peroxide on his white spot on his face. Today I noticed that he is spitting out all his antibiotic food. He grabs one piece at a time and then spits it all out (whole...not chewed at all)....if I just give him one piece and wait...he spits it out too. This can't be good.

Yeah that's not good. Can you see if he has a cyst inside his mouth (pinkish lump in throat or on either side of his mouth inside?) by holding him at the surface he should auto-open his mouth and you will need a torch maybe. To see well and fast. You can do it when applying the topical HP. Yes, same one we use OTC..3% solution.

If he has mouthrot, it could be he has lumps inside his mouth. This would make it difficult to eat.

Yes its fine to scrape the sides and let the muck float if your filter is good it should get sucked up.

If he's not eating you may need to separate and look at adding some water meds like one of the furans. Furan 2 for example.

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Kayla, just FYI

- Furan 2 usually can be found at Petsmart, although I did not see it online. If not, it's available at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Pharmaceuticals-70P-Anti-Bacterial-Medication/dp/B000HHO00C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325556805&sr=8-1

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hey Kayla just wanted you to know I have been following this thread and I am so proud of you for all your doing for your fish :) I always keep a sponge specifically for each tank and give the walls a good wipe down with every water change :) I had been wondering if this might be some form of mouth fungus/rot I am hopeful the hp swab will help it to begin to heal :) keeping the water super clean is really important right now,your in terrific hands with Alex and Trinket,I couldn't pick two better people to get you through this :) Hang in there :) should know in a day or two if the hp swab has done the trick ;)

Also if you have any minced garlic or garlic juice in the house you can try soaking the med food in the juice to entice smokey to eat,him still being able to eat is a good thing right now :)

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Thanks everyone for all your help and information. I think Smokey must have eaten some of his pellets this morning...I didn't see him spit them all out (a few of them he did) and he had a good coloured one inch poopy today :) . The white spot on his lip seems a little bigger. His fins at the edges seem to be a bit tattered and see through looking but he is still very active and not looking depressed or anything. I was not able to find Furan 2 at Petco but did find it at another LFS. He says it is API Furan 2 in a blue and white box.

Here is today's video:

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Great. I'm glad he's eating again. I am interpreting to mean that whatever's bothering his mouth is better.

Did you get a chance to check inside his mouth as Trinket suggested?

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Kayla ~ in the recent video, it almost looks like the white spot has turned into a more cauliflower like shape? I am beginning to wonder if it could be a totally benign wart like growth.Did this fish come from a pond originally? There are several warty growths that start as a tiny white (sometimes pink) spots and grow to a bubble lump type thing. Surface is smoothish in some but several cysts joined can look more clumpy. Others will look very cauliflower like with a rough surface.

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Kayla ~ in the recent video, it almost looks like the white spot has turned into a more cauliflower like shape? I am beginning to wonder if it could be a totally benign wart like growth.Did this fish come from a pond originally? There are several warty growths that start as a tiny white (sometimes pink) spots and grow to a bubble lump type thing. Surface is smoothish in some but several cysts joined can look more clumpy. Others will look very cauliflower like with a rough surface.

Imo, I normally would have left the answer to the OP, but I had to say something because I was just so impressed because a pond was exactly(!) where that fish spent its life before Kayla got him/her from the LFS owner, who rescued him/her.

(Edited for atrocious sentence. Still bad. Ugh)

Edited by dnalex
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Thanks Alex! Yes ~ thought that might be the case as I have seen this on our pond fish.

The interesting thing is the incubation period can be weeks or even months.

There is very little you can do for them and antibiotics tend to make them quite angry and worse.

The salt is good and a topical wont hurt, acriflavin ointment for example. It would be good if Kayla could get a magnifying lens to the spot and see what the surface looks like just to confirm exactly what kind of surface the spot has. Bubbly, cauliflower like, smooth, several lumps joined etc.Not fuzzy I am assuming now.The water must be quite good as these growths often change color fast, pick up algae etc in heavily organic water and this one is still exceptionally white.

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Trinket...that would be awesome if it was something less deadly like a benign wart. To me the area looks like a scrape, there is pinkish tissue surrounded by white skin around it. There is like a tiny loose flap of whiteness that moves on top of the area.

Smokey was definitely a pond fish, an employee of the LFS owner brought it in to the store from her pond. He said he had treated him with Quick Cure and Prazi since he came from a pond.

So if this is a benign wart what should I do now? Do I keep in 0.3% saline or bring it down to 0.1% now? I have been feeding the Medi-gold since Sunday evening (9.5 days ago)...should I stop at 10 days or do the full 14 day schedule? I would love to move the 3 of them into the 125 gallon tank if I know that he is going to be okay. Should I wait a while and continue with the salt and antibiotics in the tank they are in? One other question...I did do 2 rounds of Prazipro, but I noticed today that Elmo was still doing some yawning. Smokey's tail still has not totally healed and one of his pectoral fins has a piece out of it...could that be still due to a fluke issue? Should I do another couple of rounds of Prazi in their smaller tank just to be sure we got rid of the flukes before moving them into the 125 gallon?

Thanks again so much.

Kayla, Elmo, Sparky and Smokey.

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I feel fairly confident this is not something that is highly infectious and that the benefits of a larger space might outweigh any risks. Your description of the white area does not ring bells with what I have seen under a lens of a typical wart however. I am not 100% on this. It could be a wart that has been scraped or it could be a dermal reaction to an allergen The salt would help a little with both. The fact he is behaving so well and nobody else is suffering seems to me to be an indication that this is not something contagious. The frayed fins on your other fish could be from stress, new fish introduced OR one other thing* I will get to, in a minute.

This is what I would do.

1.Finish the medigold feed to 10 days no more. These fish are small, it's enough.

2.Take the salt down slowly. One day at 0.2% and the next at 0.1%.

3.*Take out all the plastic plants. They leech PCBS and are a big stressor for some fish. I have seen these fungus looking growths on fish in tanks with plastic plants before many, many times.

Post back after that with updates of how all the fish are :). If none are any worse I would transfer them. You are going to transfer this media and filter system yes?

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Thanks Trinket...that sounds like a great plan :)

I have already removed all the plastic plants...they only have a real anubias plant in there now. I've put their towel back on the one side of the tank so they have some "quiet, safe" space. I will try and get a few amazon swords plants so they have a few more real plants with them in the tank. Are silk plants safe...I never thought about PCB's being released from the plastic plants.

I brought the salt down to 0.15% and will leave it there for a day or so and then bring it down by 50% when I do the water change. When I did the w/c last night it had nitrites (0.25) and ammonia (0.25-0.5) after only 1-1.5 days without a w/c....so I'm wondering if that happened when I had the AC70 in the QT tank and the AC110 was the only filter in their 45 long tank. I will be moving the AC110 over to the 125 long tank, and adding two new AC110 filters I have as well. I'm guessing I will probably get a cycle bump with that too. I can put the ac70 filter media spread out between the 2 new ac110's. What size of river rocks and how many would be good for the 125 gallon long? I don't want to leave it totally bare bottom since they get upset seeing their reflections in the bottom of the tank.

One more quick question...today will be their last afternoon of antibiotic food (Medi-gold)...should I feed them some Jump Start (if so...for how long?) and can I also feed their Thera-A food along with the Jump Start.

Thanks.

Kayla

Edited by Kayla102968
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Jumpstart is great for feeding after antibiotics. I would load them up with just Jumpstart for at least 7 days, but there really is no harm if you want to mix in some NLS Thera-A.

Silk plants are great alternatives to live plants in a goldfish tank. I have them, and river rocks of all sizes in my tanks. One other option you have is to paint the bottom of your tank (on the outside). This would prevent that reflection concern that you have.

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Sounds like you are on track again Kayla. I really think things will be okay. Let's just keep a watch on how the white spot develops and if any strange behavior occurs with anyone. So far that has not been the case, despite cycle bump and all. Jumpstart can be fed alongside a little of another ( your choice,peas etc) but works best when a good continued flow is fed or the fish get enough of it every day anyway :heart

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