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Smokey has a new white spot...what to do now :(


Kayla102968

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Here is a photo of his lip today (it is now looking like white has formed inside the black area): http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_4108-1.jpg

Smokey will eat a little canned spinach (small pieces) that has no salt added (ingredients are spinach and water). I went for canned since I knew it would be really mushy. He will also eat an occassional tiny piece of canned pea (no salt added...but there is a little sugar unfortunately). He also really worked hard today on eating some nutrafin crisps I had from before I joined this forum and I think he ate a couple off the top of the tank. When they floated down into the water he tried to eat them but spit them out into tiny pieces and then he would try the smaller pieces and spit those out. I wonder why he could eat a whole crisp at the top of the tank (before it sank). I only gave him a small amount of blood worms this morning since I am really trying to get him to eat other food.

I did a 50% w/c and added the Prazipro. He seems to be acting well and even trying to get algae off the river rocks, pretty much constantly pecking at them. He does look skinny I think.

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I think we've gotten things back to before the power outage, and now is the time for slow recovery. I think you are doing absolutely the right thing. Hang in there!

As for the lip growth, do you remember how Trinket said that it might be exacerbated by the antibiotic treatment? I think that is definitely the case, but we had no choice, since we had to treat for the mouth and fin issues.

Hang in there!

How are the other two? They must be having a blast in the huge new space :)

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Thanks Alex. I'm loving the new big tank with Elmo and Sparky and they love it too. Even Elmo is getting into the sand searching...but Sparky (the Shubunkin) is in heaven...lol. They are just sooooo busy and active all day and they definitely make use of the whole tank with all kinds of new swimming moves :). I remember when I first bought the 125 someone said that once I get the fish in there the first thing I'll think is "boy...wouldn't they love an even bigger/longer tank". The thought has crossed my mind...they certainly don't look like they have too much room, if you know what I mean :). I love how the moonsand looks so clean...the poop is just sucked up into the filters (even though the intakes are like 7" above the sand)...and so far no algae...*knock on wood*. The larger tank also holds the kH a lot steadier than my 45 gallon...but maybe part of it was to do with the meds and everything I've been doing in Smokey's tank.

I'm looking forward to being able to keep all 3 of them in the same tank though...it would make things a lot easier for me in terms of testing and water changes and I think Smokey misses Elmo and Sparky and they miss him too :).

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Good news...Smokey is eating the Nutrafin crisps when they float on top of the tank...but spits them out when they sink...however, tonight he ate gel food :) . I'm so happy that he will be able to eat something that is actually good for him now...yay for gel food!

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I think the spot might be a bit smaller tonight: http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_4117.jpg

The tank still looks cloudy from the Maracyn 2...was I supposed to use Carbon filter to get it out or were the 2 w/c's of 50% each okay?

Here is a video from tonight: He's doing so much better he's even trying to eat his poop again...lol...but I have to admit I'm glad he spits that out. He looks a lot less dark coloured now...more the orangey tone I usually see him in:

.
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What are the tank parameters? I am asking because there have been conflicting experiences with the cycle when it comes to using Maracyn 2, and I would like to know your experience with it.

I'm glad he's feeling better and eating better. In stead of using carbon, just rely on water changes. Tomorrow, I would like to dose in Prazipro one more time :)

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My tank parameters tonight are good...of course I did a 50% w/c yesterday and then again this morning. My kH however has taken a dive. I added the 1/4 dose yesterday for the water taken out and then again today when I did the w/c and my kH is 5-6. I added another 1/4 teaspoon so hopefully that will hold til I test again tomorrow. pH: 7.8, ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0 and nitrates: 0. I think the Maracyn did increase my ammonia levels more because they went up to 0.25 fairly quickly...and I did have a few nitrates at the start that quickly disappeared (probably a few good bacteria on the algae on the river rocks/fake plant in my tank).

I just dosed Prazipro this morning...should I redose tomorrow again? (The bottle says do not overdose...wait 3 days between doses). Just making sure :).

Thanks,

Kayla

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No no. No need to dose Prazipro again. You are one step ahead of me :)

I hadn't realized you had added the Prazi today, and that is perfect!

Edited by dnalex
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Smokey is acting really good. He never goes to the top anymore, he is constantly head down, tail up and nibbling/searching on rocks, plants etc. or he is wiggling in the corner of the tank begging for food. He wiggles his whole body...it's so cute :). This is the end of day 2 for the Prazi. The tank water is: pH: 7.9, ammonia: 0-0.25, nitrite: 0 and nitrates: 0. Should I do a half dose of Prime? The tank water is really cloudy still. Smokey is eating Nutrafin crisps and gel food today...oh, and a few peas. He still spits out garlic soaked NLS pellets (1mm) and garlic soaked Pro-Gold pieces. Other than the small white spot on his nose and not eating pellets, he looks and acts great. I am so happy to see him away from the top of the tank and acting like his old self again :)

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Great news! His mouth is probably still healing, and so far still isn't quite able to handle pellets. Soon, though, I hope :)

Yes, definitely do another half dose of Prime.

I had an empty-headed few days lol regarding the cloudy tank. This is to be expected with the Prazi treatment as well.

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I could never even imagine keeping up and helping as many fish/people as you do on this board :). Great to know that Prazi causes a cloudy tank...I was worried it was from the Maracyn 2 still.

Thanks again for all your help Alex.

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Koko - I agree...the forum is awesome and the people who are a part of it are awesome too :). Helpful and friendly.

So I ended up doing a 50% w/c tonight (end of day 3 of Prazi). Somehow the ammonia level got to between 0.25 and 0.5 (I'd say closer to 0.5), nitrite and nitrate were 0. I can only do 50% w/c's at a time due to the pH difference between tap and tank, so I will test tomorrow and see what it reads. I did not redose in any Prazipro since I figured by the end of day 3 it was probably mostly inactive anyway? In good news...Smokey eats everything now. I was thinking maybe he wasn't eating the pellets because I soaked them in fresh garlic juice and that it might be irritating his mouth. I put in some unsoaked 2mm NLS Thera A pellets and he ate them...no problems at all. Then I tested with a ProGold pellet soaked in garlic juice and he ate that too...lol. So he is back to his old eating habits and constantly begging for food.

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I'm so glad that things are well. I think you can stop with the Prazi treatment as well now.

Keep him in QT for about two weeks or so (more if you aren't in a hurry to dismantle the tank), and then he can move to the big tank :)

:Congrats:

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Alex and Koko - Thanks...I'm very happy he is doing so great too :).

Right now Smokey is literally in the middle of the living room with his 45 gallon tank. My husband wants him moved as soon as possible :). Not next weekend but the weekend after, we are going away for 3 days. Smokey's tank has been really hard to keep the kH up, as well as keeping the ammonia levels down. Maybe I'm feeding him too much...but I don't think so. I did a 60% w/c last night and today there was still 0.25 ammonia. Anyway, I think I would feel a lot more comfortable having him in the big tank with the others while we're gone (less likely for water parameter changes); however, I also want to be around to see how he does in there before I go. I'm thinking of moving him over to the big tank next weekend so I have a week to watch how he is doing with the others. Also, just this morning my 4 year old tripped over the aquarium light cord (I told you it was right in the middle of the living room :) ) and broke the ballast around the light so that I had to remove it since it wouldn't hold the light up anymore. Now Smokey only has light on one side of the tank. That aquarium he is in was really old, and we only paid $40 for it and the stand together. I may keep just the tank as a QT if I need it in the future.

Anyway, I hope that Smokey will be okay with the white spot on his lip...I still don't know what it is, but today it looks smaller again. I think getting him in the big tank with lots of clean water might help that as well. I would prefer he was in the tank that is closer to being fully cycled.

What do you think? :)

Here is a pic of his nose with the white spot: http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_4143.jpg

Edited by Kayla102968
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Given how long he's had the issues, and how they recurred, I feel much more comfortable observing him in QT for a while longer. However, I do understand. So, it's really up to you.

As for the kH, I'm a little confused. Of course it's going to go down over the course of the days between water changes. It's supposed to. The idea is to increase the kH high enough so that the pH stays flat and stable during the course of your time between water changes. To that effect, a kH of 11/150 (or higher) should suffice. If you feel that the kH is dropping too fast, try adding more buffer.

I'm glad he's doing better, and I'm sure everyone is looking forward to seeing him in the big tank.

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When I started...I put in 1/4 of the recommended dose for the full tank (kH was around 8-9). When I did a w/c five days later, I added 1/4 of the recommended dose for the water I was replacing and the kH remained at 8-9. Then I checked 3 days later, and my kH was 4. At this time...the pH was 7.9 or 7.8. I added 1/2 of a teaspoon more to get it to kH 7. The next water change (the next day) I added in a full teaspoon (1/2 the recommended dose)...tested the tank water later that night and it was at 5. I added in 1/4 teaspoon more and got it up to 6. I tested the pH and it was 8.3. Now I'm nervous to add more buffer since I don't want the pH to go higher than 8.3 right? Does adding the buffer increase the pH even when the pH is at 8.3? In the big tank I have not been having these issues with the kH and am still only adding 1/4 of the dose to get the kH to 7 (pH is 8.2 - 8.3). I'm going to have to start writing the readings and amounts I add down so that I can look at the dosing more closely. I guess I need to be increasing the amount of buffer I add to the tank to hold the kH up enough so that it stays within the acceptable level til the next w/c. Okay...I need to be more diligent in writing down the readings and how much I'm adding so I can figure this out better.

Thanks Alex...all this buffer stuff really can get confusing...I always thought that as long as the kH was over 5, that it wouldn't allow the pH to go down. What I didn't realize is that the kH is decreasing between w/c's and can quickly get to an unacceptable level if you don't have it high enough to begin with (10 or 11).

Probably the reason I don't see the drop in kH in the big tank is because it is a lot more water so that the kH doesn't go down as quickly as in the smaller tank?

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I like how I write a giant novel of my whole confusion, and you can solve it with one sentence...."you can add more buffer". lol...gotta love it. I'm adding more buffer right now to both tanks...and writing it down so I don't forget :).

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LOL. I'm on my phone, so by necessity I have to limit my words, or I will be typing forever :rofl

Try to order the 4 kg tub of Gold Buffer. It's the best thing I've done in a while. :)

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Well I weighed the pros and cons of moving Smokey to the big tank this weekend (since next weekend we'll be gone for three days) and decided to move him today. The ammonia levels in the smaller tank would reach 0.25 by the next day (not even 24 hours since a 50% w/c) and I was also concerned that there was more of a possibility that nitrites would show up in the smaller tank (due to beginning of the cycle) while I was gone for the 3 days. Consistantly the bigger tank has shown lower levels of ammonia and the nitrates are still under 20 by the end of the week. Smokey still had the white spot in the smaller tank and I figured that cleaner water (less ammonia) would be best for it while I'm gone, and if things go south...I can always move him back into QT later. Yesterday Smokey stopped eating pellets for the day (in the smaller tank)...but still would eat peas and gel food and goldfish crisps. Now today (before moving him over to the big tank)...he is back to eating everything again. Smokey hasn't been spending any time at the top of the tank at all...except at feeding...so I know his gill function is better. When I put him in the big tank (same pH and 2 degree temp difference from his smaller tank)...he just started swimming around and following Elmo and Sparky...it was so cute. He is also loving the sand in the tank...It keeps him very busy searching. He does look darker in colour in this tank...I'm wondering if it is because I don't have strong lights in the tank, or if he is like a chameleon and the moon sand is making him look darker :). I really hope he stays well and continues to improve so he can stay with his pals.

Here is a video of when I first put him in the tank today:

I'll keep you updated...thanks for all your help.

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