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Smokey has a new white spot...what to do now :(


Kayla102968

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Yup. Tomorrow, give him blood worms again, but try to give him some peas...Cook them really really well, and smush tiny bit between your fingers and give him some the size of the small NLS pellets. Turn off the filters while you are feeding so as to minimize the food being sucked into the filter. :)

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Smokey had 3 meals of bloodworms today (about 20 at each feeding). He is still not really fast at it and still spits some out and refuses to eat them for some reason. I tried peas in tiny tiny pieces and he either misses them altogether (doesn't even see them) or just watches them fall like he couldn't care less. He tried one and promptly spit it out. He also won't eat spirulina brine shrimp or soaked pellets yet. It's bloodworms or nothing and he also chews them for quite a long time (maybe 3-4 at a time).

He is spending some time at the top of the tank, but less than before. Today was day 4 of the Melafix/Pimafix treatment. Should I still continue with that tomorrow?

I'm still loving the Seachem gold buffer and Elmo and Sparky are loving their new tank.

Thanks for all your help :).

Kayla

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Yes. The directions call for 5 days of treatment, I believe.

I'm really glad he's eating, and I am hoping the combination of the light treatment and sustenance will enable him to regain his strength completely. Please do the same tomorrow, except try some small bit of gel food. :)

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The directions say 3 days for new fish and 7 days for sick fish. Should I cut down to a half dose or stick with the full doses I've been using? I will try some gel food tomorrow along with his usual bloodworms :) .I'm glad he is eating too. He had normal looking poops today :) .

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Amy - thanks for stopping by...I am happy he is eating too :).

Unfortunately, he only ate two meals of blood worms today and would not eat the gel food or soaked 1mm pellets; the third meal of blood worms he spit them all out. I've also noticed a new symptom. His "skin" under his "armpits" (pectoral fins) looks bloody on both sides :( . I'll see if I can get a pic but it is very hard to show it clearly. He also is doing the shaking his head and opening and closing his mouth really fast again today. He is however not up at the top anymore as much.

I'm thinking the blood under his fins is not good though...do you know what that means?

Thanks,

Kayla

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Hi Kayla, I think that given his condition, which has not improved drastically, I am thinking we should go with the more aggressive approach, which is to treat with Prazi + Maracyn 2. Let me just detail the reasons why, so as to invite discussion among others, if any is inclined :)

- the spitting out of food is indicative of sores in the mouth or the gills. This can happen because of a bacterial infection, such as columnaris, or something parasitic, such as flukes.

- because we don't have the luxury of medicated foods in this instance, we will need to go with a waterborne formulation

- Maracyn 2 contains minocycline, a broad-spectrum antibiotic of the tetracycline family

- Prazipro is proposed for the external parasites etc.

So, tomorrow, I think we should go ahead with this...

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Okay Alex. Should I do a w/c tonight to get rid of the pimafix/melafix combination, or will it be gone by tomorrow if I don't add any more tomorrow? If I should do a w/c, what % would be good.

Do you have any idea what the blood under the fins means?

Thanks,

Kayla

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The blood at the base of the fins is a sign that the bacterial infection is internal, but we knew that.

I would do an 80-90% WC to get rid of all the treatments so far. You can do that either tonight or tomorrow. Then, depending on how tank parameters are, either daily 80-90% WCs are needed, followed by re-medication of both Maracyn 2 and Prazi, or WC every two days. Maracyn 2 dosing is every day, right? The other thing to note is that Maracyn 2 is photosensitive, so you will need to cover the tank.

Edited by dnalex
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Due to my tank and tap pH difference I can only do 50% w/c's at a time. So the water changes after adding the new medication, are just to keep down the ammonia and nitrate readings right? So if they are low or nothing, I don't have to do a w/c? I'm trying to determine if I have enough medication (Prazipro and Maracyn 2) to do it in the 45 gallon since I would rather just leave him where he is. I guess I'll see how it goes and how often I'll need to do w/c's.

So he'll be in the dark for the full treatment (no tank lights and the tank covered in a towel?). Can I still feed him bloodworms if he'll eat them at all?

Edited by Kayla102968
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Due to my tank and tap pH difference I can only do 50% w/c's at a time. So the water changes after adding the new medication, are just to keep down the ammonia and nitrate readings right? So if they are low or nothing, I don't have to do a w/c? I'm trying to determine if I have enough medication (Prazipro and Maracyn 2) to do it in the 45 gallon since I would rather just leave him where he is. I guess I'll see how it goes and how often I'll need to do w/c's.

So he'll be in the dark for the full treatment (no tank lights and the tank covered in a towel?). Can I still feed him bloodworms if he'll eat them at all?

In that case, I would do a 50% WC tonight if possible and then another 50% WC tomorrow before dosing in the new meds.

Yup. The WCs during this treatment is only necessary IF you have tons of ammonia and nitrites. However, I doubt that this will happen, since you are starting out with a cycled filter. The medication is likely going to kill your cycle, but that would take a few days, and you have the huge advantage of one fish in a 45 gallon. So, the waste build up is even less. The more and more I think about this, you may very well be able to go 2, 3, or 4 days even without doing WCs. Prime will also be helpful here. We'll have to check parameters each day and go from there, but I really think that the WCs will be minimal.

Don't you have to dose in new Maracyn 2 daily regardless of whether you've done WC or not? I remember vaguely that you do.

Of course you should feed him if he wants to eat :)

Yes, keep the tank covered with lights off most of the time :)

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His filter is not cycled :( . I had to replace the other AC70 due to a crack, and I threw out all the media anyway last time when he was treated with the Victoria Green (API fungal).

Oh, so if I have to do a w/c I can just do it before I add the new Maracyn 2 dose for the day and not add any more for the water I took out? Then I should have enough Maracyn 2.

I will most likely have to get more Prazipro though, but I have enough to get started. What is the schedule for Prazipro again...3 days on, 2 days off...and for how long?

This medicating is really confusing stuff, especially when dealing with w/c's.

Thanks for all your guidance Alex :).

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I have to check the directions for Maracyn 2 again later before giving you a definitive answer, since it's important and I do not want to give you wrong information.

However, even with an uncycled tank, being 1 fish in a 45 gallon tank has many advantages. Between that and Prime I think we can make it with fewer water changes.

My PraziPro schedule is a round every 5 days. Prazi is pretty much inactivated after 3 days, so the flukes have two days off to hatch before the next round.

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I did a 50% w/c last night and another 50% this morning on Smokey's tank. It still looks sudsy on the top though...I think the Melafix and Pimafix sits a lot on the top of the tank. So today I will start Maracyn two and Prazipro. I can do them both at the same time? Smokey ate some bloodworms this morning and had a good poop :). I have to start with adding 8 packets of Maracyn two to the tank today, and then days 2 through 5 I add 4 packets each day. I'm going to dissolve the Maracyn two powder in a cup of tank water and then add it to Smokey's tank.

I'm a little nervous, I hope he is able to handle the medication.

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Smokey is looking pretty good today. He's moving around the tank better and is quite excited about his bloodworm meals now. If the worms have any white at all on them, he will spit them out. Are the ones with white on them not good? I try to find him the reddest ones but occassionally the odd red and white one gets in, and he refuses to eat them so I just take them out with the "fish turkey baster". The water tonight was: ammonia: 0 to 0.25 (closer to 0), nitrites: 0 and nitrates: 0-5 (closer to 0). His water parameters yesterday were ammonia: 0 and then I did a 100% w/c (two 50's) and by tonight there was slight ammonia. I'm wondering if the meds cause him to release more ammonia.

Anyway, here is the video of Smokey from tonight:

Edited by Kayla102968
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Yay! :D

He does look pretty good! I'm really happy. It's actually really funny that he only wants the blood red ones lol. It's the black ones that you want to avoid. The white ones are just casings lol.

What are your parameters today? Would you mind posting parameters at least once each evening update during this treatment time so that I can know whether to advise you on what to do in regard to WC or Prime or both? :)

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