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Smokey has a new white spot...what to do now :(


Kayla102968

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There is a pinned thread of gel food on the forum, and many more.

I my sig, there are also two threads (agar agar and koi clay) that also contain info on making gel food.

There is another one here

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/34248-the-perfect-gel-food/page__view__findpost__p__382221__hl__perfect+gel+food__fromsearch__1

To be honest, since they are single tails and not likely prone to developing swim bladder issues, I would go back to pellets and blood worms and fresh veggies after Smokey eats normally again. :)

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The tank temp is up to 58 degrees and my 3 little piggies are smacking at the top of the tank, and wiggling away anytime I get within 5 feet of the tank...it's so sad. They haven't eaten since Thursday morning...but you think I should wait until tomorrow morning to feed still right?

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With the gel food, I added one 5 oz can of low sodium tuna and two 4oz baby foods. Should it have been two 8oz baby foods? I just want to make sure I get the right proportion of protein to veggie.

If I wanted to replace the baby foods...could I just add 8oz of real veggies and the 5oz of tuna?

Also, if I wanted to add in some regular pellet food would that hurt? How much would I add in to a batch the size you had me make?

Smokey wasn't too happy about the pellets this morning, so I did give him a piece of the gel food (it smelled fine...he just looked so hungry). He went nuts for it and just sucked it back. I really think this is a good way to get some food into him. I'm going to make some fresh gel food today now that I know he'll eat it. Before I do though I wanted to find out how much protein to how much veggie volume I should use. They have the stage 2 baby food in two different size jars...a 4 oz and a larger one. Which size baby food should I use? If I add regular crushed garlic...do I keep the same amount as the garlic powder?

It was 64 degrees in the tank this morning...they are all looking well. I just can't wait til Smokey gets filled out a bit more and I know it will be safe to put him into the big tank.

Thanks,

Kayla

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Yay! All great questions. I see you making tons of gel food for your babies in the future, as well lol.

Ok, since we are on the topic of food, I'll add more things to consider:

- yes, the 4 oz jars are correct. You of course can substitute fresh veggies to the recipe. Just remember that it's not 8 oz of fresh veggies, but more like 4oz fresh veggies and 4 oz water to give you 8 ounces after blending

- garlic is great to add. For that size batch 1/2 teaspoon is about perfect. Some people think that garlic is a great immune booster. At the very least, it's a great attractant for the fish.

- you could add some koi clay to the food for them as well. I'm a big fan of koi clay, and there is a link in my sig about it.

- you can definitely add crushed pellets to the mix. For that size batch, 1/8 of a cup is plenty. If you add too much, your gel won't hold.

- you can also add some frozen blood worms to the food :)

I'm glad Smokey is eating. Gel food is great :)

Edited by dnalex
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Thanks for all that info Alex...it is much appreciated :)

Everyone is looking great. There is a bit of white poop going on...probably from the stress, but other than that they seem to be doing well. Smokey's side looks much better, it now looks like there are just a few scales missing. His lip spot is getting smaller and less noticeable too...yay! Elmo looks pretty chunky and she is definitely becoming more white in colour. Sparky is growing too.

Do you think that they will soon be able to go in their new tank? Should I wait awhile to see if they need Prazi'ing again?

I wanted to make sure and thank everyone for all their help with Smokey (especially Imo and Alex). I didn't think that Smokey would make it...but he really is doing well :)

Here is tonight's video:

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Looks great!

Did Smokey eat more gel food?

I think you can move them over anytime you like. I looked very carefully at the video, and I don't think there's any hint that they might need additional Prazi treatments at this time :)

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Here is the video...it is really hard to see, since they swim so fast...but it definitely looks more defined and white again (it was smaller and black in colour just yesterday). I'll check the water when I get back from picking up my son at preschool and do a w/c. Last night the water was okay (ammonia: 0-0.25 (closer to 0), nitrites: 0, nitrates: 10 - 20, pH: 8.1)

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Alex - I meant to ask you how big of a cube of gel food I should be feeding my bigger single tail goldfishies? I have a feeling I am overfeeding since all of my goldfish (except for Smokey) are looking more like fancy goldfish with rounder bellies :). They just always look like they are starving to me...they splash at the top of the tank and it is like I'm feeding piranhas even though they were fed just 3 hours before. Lately I've been doing w/c's every second day since my nitrates get up to 30 or even 40 and my ammonia is between 0 and 0.25. The day I skip the w/c I still put a dose of Prime in.

I'm feeding small pieces of gel food for Smokey's benefit...plus they all seem to take a long time to chew it even though it is soft.

Anyway...I want to get into a feeding schedule and thought I would feed 4 (maybe 5) times a day. Can you give me an idea of how much gel food and how much pellets (NLS - 2mm) I should try feeding per fish?

Thanks,

Kayla

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Can you take a pic of the amount of gel food you are feeding them at each sitting? Also, how is Smokey? May we see a pic or video of the fatties? Lol

- have they moved?

- what are your parameters today? when was the last WC?

Edited by dnalex
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I feed them each about four 1/4 inch cubes, 4 or 5 times a day (gel food). Smokey can now eat the 2mm NLS pellets without spitting them out, but he doesn't go after them once they've sunk to the bottom, and he is too slow getting them on the way down; however, he is great at catching the gel pieces as they float down to the bottom (he moves quickly for these). Smokey still has the white spot on his nose (I'm starting to wonder if it is from the BIU getting stuck on an injury...lol). He seems to be doing well but swims kinda with his tail down (not level in the body like Sparky and Elmo). I think he still looks rough around the edges...his fins just don't look quite right. I am glad he is eating though and not spitting it out.

I did a w/c this morning...last night the readings were: pH: 8.0, ammonia: 0-0.25, nitrite: 0 and nitrate: 30. The last water change was the day before those readings.

I haven't moved them to the new tank yet since I'm still concerned about Smokey and I don't want to move him and then have to move him again to quarantine if he needs some other treatment. Also, I'm concerned about how much BIU I'm going to have to have around on hand for w/c's....since BIU only comes in one size container and I'm going to require 25 teaspoons the first time I fill, and every 50% w/c after that I'm going to have to add in another 12.5 teaspoons. With the big tank will I still be doing 50% w/c's? I was reading somewhere about the water pressure being difficult for them in a larger tank when you do larger w/c's...and of course I have the difference in pH between tap and tank. I was thinking of trying Seachem Gold Buffer and see if I can get the kH up without the subsequent rise in pH of the tank. I'm not sure how to do that while I'm already using BIU though (except with a large w/c, but then my pH's are too different).

Here is a video from today...you will notice the under belly shots of Elmo are quite large :) ...and she is also wide in the girth. She looks like this barrel with a tiny head and tiny tail :) . Sparky was a lot chunkier in the girth before, but seems to have lost some of it after the power outage. Smokey looks like I would think a single tailed fish should look...but maybe he's a little skinny?

Thanks for all your help,

Kayla

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Kayla, they look wonderful! :)

I think your feeding schedule is fine. The only thing I would suggest is that make sure to check your parameters to see that the cycle holds and that your nitrates never rise above 20ppm. Less than 10ppm is even better :)

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I wanted to ask one other question as well. Is it normal for single tailed fish to break the surface of the water quite often? I'll be doing something in the kitchen and I can hear the water at the top of the tank splashing loudly in the living room (around 10 feet away). When I open the top to feed them, I usually get splashed with water since they jump when I approach. It's like I'm living with killer whales breeching in the ocean :) . I see both Smokey and Elmo like to break the top of the water with their dorsal fin and then scooch (wiggling) along the top causing wave action. It's almost like they are scratching their backs on the surface. I hope that isn't a sign of parasites.

I think I'm overthinking this whole bigger tank idea. Maybe I'm just a little nervous about moving any of them, since I know it can distress them and cause problems for them.

Maybe this weekend.

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Quick update: Smokey still has his white spot on his lip but is eating the gel food well. My tank is driving me crazy though (the 45 long). I did a w/c yesterday morning (high nitrates) and then by the evening I tested again and the nitrates were fine but it was 0.25 ammonia. I put prime in and will do the w/c today. What concerns me is that I want to move them over to the 125 gallon, but I'm not sure that is a good thing to do. If I have to do daily or every 2 day w/c's I'll be going through way too much Buff it up. A small container costs almost $20 (with shipping) and I will have to replace 9 teaspoons every time I do a w/c.

The other day I cleaned the older AC110 sponge really well with tank water (it was very dirty) since I thought that might be causing the high nitrates. But now I'm getting ammonia readings. Right now in my 2 AC110 filters I have the sponge and the ceramic beads and that is all. Is it important that I have floss in them as well...that I change monthly, weekly? Could I just put more sponge in them...or is that not fine enough for catching all the waste?

I welcome any thoughts/suggestions about whether I should move them over to the 125 gallon or whether I should wait and try to build up my good bacteria in the smaller tank (where w/c's won't require as much Prime or BIU)? Should I try adding some Nutrafin cycle in? I don't want to end up getting overwhelmed with the 125 tank if I'm constantly having to do w/c's with it (like once a day).

It seems like such a battle to keep the water clean. My husband thinks I'm crazy with the amount of water testing and w/c's I do...lol.

Thanks,

Kayla

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I think you are much better off in the 125, since more water volume means less ammonia and other toxins building up. You are more than likely seeing ammonia because you are feeding them more, and perhaps the filters are still trying to catch up to this increased waste load. Also, when do you measure ammonia. You should not check for ammonia within 2 hours after any feeding, as that may give you a temporary spike.

I use Seachem Gold Buffer because I can get an 8.8 pound (4 kg) bucket for relatively cheaply ($60). I also only use 1/4th the recommended dosage, which is still plenty to keep my pH rock stable from one water change to another. This is really all you want :)

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I did test water just after feeding...oops...never thought about that. Thanks Alex, I always appreciate your recommendations :) . I have ordered some Seachem gold buffer and I'll give it a try. I want to try it in the old tank though, so I think I will wait to move the fish over until I've done the trial run. I would rather have them in the same tank to do comparisons on the two products (BIU and seachem gold). I'll be moving them over as soon as I can.

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I tested the tank 3 hours after they ate and it was still 0.25 ammonia :( . My tap water is reading 0 ammonia. Then while I was doing my w/c my thermometer stopped working (it wouldn't move past 66 degrees). I had to head to Walmart to pick up a new one in order to finish my w/c. My husband says I'm spending too much time with the fish. He says he doesn't think I should move them to the big tank until I can handle them in the small tank. He's worried that all my problems I'm having with cycling, pH correcting etc. is just going to be magnified in a bigger way with the big tank.

Anyway, I plugged in the lights on the big tank and they both started flashing on and off. Does this mean I need new bulbs? I have 2 36" ones I'll need to get. What type/brand do I need for goldfish? I've never bought bulbs before.

I'm also trying to decide what kind of bottom to have in the big tank. I think I would like something. Is TMS hard to upkeep? How much would I need for 125 gallon tank?

I'm going to put some Nutrafin cycle in the 45 gallon and see if I can boost up the good bacteria. I've also cut the fishies to 3 smaller feedings a day to try and keep the ammonia and nitrates down.

Smokey still has the white spot on his nose, but he is very active and looking well. He can now eat the NLS pellets again so I'm sticking with only those for awhile. I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with the fish right now. I want to take good care of them but it has been very hard lately to juggle family life and fish :( ... I worry about Smokey too and what his white spot is, and why it continues.

Hopefully things will get easier soon.

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Some people on here believe that your tank may always register slightly positive for ammonia, but this is OK, especially because it's under 0.25ppm, because most of that will be harmless ammonium. Moreover, Prime will detoxify the rest. For now, this is my suggestion. Unless it's your scheduled WC day, don't change the water unless the ammonia reads 0.5ppm or higher. Otherwise, add it 1 dose of Prime every 48 hours.

I know you care very much for your fish, but keep this in mind...most of the time we worry to much for them. Let them be. Just give them good water, food, and let them take care of the rest :)

I think other members will agree with me when I say that it's much less stressful and easier to take care of a larger tank, especially when you are understocked :)

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Here's my disclaimer: I really like moon sand. I think it works very well for me, so I am not unbiased. I prefer the TMS over any other gravel.

Having said that, I have to say that bare bottom tanks are best in terms of maintenance. TMS may also get into your filter, and so you have to shorten the intakes to about mid-tank level. You only need about 1/4 inch layer of TMS.

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So would a 1/4 inch of rounded natural gravel be okay as well? If so...what is the best size (too small to choke or too big to pick up)?

I find with the bigger river stones the goldfish poops get caught up under them and don't make it to the filter :) .

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