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Very Sick Black Moor


Summer4

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My betta seems ok now. Maybe it was just shock switching him from the container back to his tank. I still do not know if I should put my moor back in the big tank. I would have to keep him in the colander because he is so weak, but my two filters current is so strong I don't know how I would keep the colander from being pushed all over the place. I am wondering if he has a bacterial induced swim bladder disease. Would meds help....or should I just put him back in tank and keep tank water clean? But.....what if the big tank is what made him sick in the first place...won't it hurt him to put him in there? Right now he is still in a bucket w/air stone.

Edited by Summer4
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I'm very sorry your fish is sick. These folks are giving you great advice and I hope he pulls through. I just wanted to add a little info.

I had that exact same bridge decoration in my bare bottom tank and it grew nasty things inside.

One day during a water change, I dumped a bucket of water into the tank near the bridge and chunks of slimy stuff came out of it.

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Thanks mary-beth for your input. I don't know the ornament but there have been countless threads where fish have become floaty and returned to normal once gravel and ornaments were removed. You just never know. Plus some fish are more sensitive than others. Just like people. One is allergic to strawberries, another to incense sticks or whatever. I have had my own fish covered in "fungus" -floaty, flippy -countless times from plastic plants, bamboo -to name a few.

My three goldfish in the main tank are acting unusually hyper and swimming around fast.

This is absolutely normal. When a fish has new surroundings- give or take, they will become hyperactive and curious.

Obviously I am a really bad fish owner :(.

You are absolutely the opposite!!!! You came here for advice and we are trying to help as best we can. We have all- every single one of us on this board I can guarantee- made small mistakes or large ones and lost fish ourselves. Nobody is the perfect fish owner and you are in the top 5% of good goldie keepers for the very fact you care enough to be here and getting help. Please do not blame yourself in any way. Goldfish are extremely difficult pets to manage. One of the hardest of all.

Should I put him back in the big tank? Will my other fish be ok? They seem to be doing fine. I think they are still spooked because I haven't put an plants back in.

I'm going to give you my opinion. Whether you take my opinion and act upon it is entirely up to you. You must decide.

I think that your fish is suffering from a combination of malfunctioning sb and has also absorbed some anaerobic bacteria that are in all gravel tanks. These bacteria are very difficult to treat once the swim bladder has been damaged and medicating often pushes the fish over the edge because he is in such a weak state organ wise. Organs need to be functioning (kidneys and sb to expel waste). for medication to work.

All your fish have been exposed without a shadow of doubt to the very same bacteria, because it only takes a few seconds for bacteria to pass into water and multiply and because these bacteria are the very ones that are living in the gravel and around all tanks. Their ability to deal with these bacteria will either make them stronger or they will in some weeks or months down the road also succomb to the same bacteria (far less likely if you reduce the amount of bacteria via large water changes and more gravel cleaning to keep viral and bacterial count low).

So, if it was me I would return your moor to the main tank IF you could manage some way for him to be safe and secure and not bothered by current in there.

My betta seems ok now. Maybe it was just shock switching him from the container back to his tank.

I think so.

I know how horrible this is, I know it is heart breaking feeling so helpless but really, talking this through, getting opinions and trying your best is all you can do :heart

How is he behaving in the bucket now? The same?

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Thank you so much....I really appreciate it. I will try to find a way to get him in there safely....but at the moment I am not sure how. It sounds like he won't recover from this :(. Is there a way to prevent this in the future? Do I need to do better gravel vacuuming?

ETA: He is doing to same. I put a mashed pea in his colander and he *might have eaten a little.

Edited by Summer4
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The best you can do to help next is try for some stabilty.

Some good aerated water that won't disturb him too much. Stable temperature and pH.It may be that after a few days in stable conditions without the shock of more moving- he may regain his appetite. Peas and strong smelling food like krill are very good to entice him but should be removed after 10 mins if he wont eat it as old decaying food makes a sick fish lose his appetite farther.

The curved shape is a sign organs are malfunctioning. It is not good but there have been fish that have recovered from this too.

Don't give up on him. Stay calm and know you are doing all you can.

How are you going to be able to do water changes in the main tank with a collander attached?

I have some ideas if you need some...:)

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How are you going to be able to do water changes in the main tank with a collander attached?

I have some ideas if you need some... :)

I was going to plan on moving him to a bucket with his colander, and do the WC quickly. My aqueon water changer is coming tomorrow, yay! But, if you have a better way, I would love to here!

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When I had my pleco fry in a collander in the trop tank, I didn't want to move them because of the temp issues with matching the temp..so I would have one of my kids hold the collander in the water -lowering it slowly- while I did a big python vacuum and water change :) I seem to remember this went along with a small bribe of candy or a few coins....

I attached the collander with large plastic laundry clips and some clear selotape to keep it stable and had to redo all that each change. However it was worth it as it avoided moving them out of the water even for a second and also avoided any shock.

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Should I be salting my main tank? If so, should I wait until this afternoon when I do a large water change. He still looks really really bad. Just laying in the colander in a curve. :(

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Before all of this....I noticed all my fish yawning a lot. Could that be a sign of something? There is plenty of oxygen in the tank.

Flukes!

How do I treat flukes? With prazipro? I wonder our pet store will have that. Could flukes have caused or contributed to my moors problems?

He seems worse. He doesn't try moving anymore...and is barely breathing. I wonder if Maracyin-Two would have helped him. He got better twice, and got worse both times I put him back in the main tank. I can't help but think there is more I could have or should be doing.

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I just read something only about using API's EM Erythromycin, and it talked about using it to treat cyanobacteria. It said cyanobacteria presents itself as blue/green algae. I said I had a really really bad algae problem before this. Growing on my rocks, bridge, plants, and started on the walls. It was mostly green, but on my bridge there were bluish/blackish areas. This was right before he got sick. I have read cyanobacteria is toxic. Could it have been cyanobacteria? Could this be what made him sick?

Can prazipro be used with API's EM Erythromycin or Maracyn two?

Edited by Summer4
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The Maracyn 2, being an antibiotic, won't be helpful in this case. For now, my recommendation is to follow Trinket's excellent advice :)

As for flukes treatment, it is usually done with Prazipro. I've always had to order mine online, since my LFS does not carry it. Excessive yawning is a sign of gill irritation and the fish's attempt to clear it. This could happen because of toxic gases, as Trinket had said, or external parasites or bacterial gill infection.

Edit: it may be that cyanobacteria could have produced toxins that contributed to the problem. In any case, I would wait to see what Trinket says :)

Edited by dnalex
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The Maracyn 2, being an antibiotic, won't be helpful in this case. For now, my recommendation is to follow Trinket's excellent advice :)

As for flukes treatment, it is usually done with Prazipro. I've always had to order mine online, since my LFS does not carry it. Excessive yawning is a sign of gill irritation and the fish's attempt to clear it. This could happen because of toxic gases, as Trinket had said, or external parasites or bacterial gill infection.

Edit: it may be that cyanobacteria could have produced toxins that contributed to the problem. In any case, I would wait to see what Trinket says :)

So just keep him in the main tank and do nothing? I feel like I am running out of time :(.

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I absolutely understand, and I am the same way when I have sick fish. However, I am sure Trinket will be on soon and can give you suggestions on what's to be done next. Since the fish is already weak, we definitely don't want to do something precipitous that may end up making it worse.

Hang in there!

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I absolutely understand, and I am the same way when I have sick fish. However, I am sure Trinket will be on soon and can give you suggestions on what's to be done next. Since the fish is already weak, we definitely don't want to do something precipitous that may end up making it worse.

Hang in there!

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

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Have you ever treated your fish for flukes? That is something that needs doing. All your fish.

0.3% salt will also help your fish a lot with breathing but you need to take the salt up slowly so as not to crash your cycle or shock him more.

Prazi and salt done slowly would be less harsh than an antibiotic and if you have never prazid this fish I would definitely do that.

Again, personally I would not medicate with antibiotics a fish this weak but if you decide to, then you do need to separate him into a tub (you could use the bucket).

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Summer, I am so very sorry :(

The video is so sweet and really he looked so happy and very fine back then.

I wish we could have helped sooner. When you started this thread, the first thing you wrote was "my goldfish is stuck to the filter". This is a very serious condition.It is a big alarm bell in goldfish health. It is almost as serious as the C shape. It indicates permanently damaged organs.It is extremely hard to treat a fish with damaged organs. Not impossible always but a very tricky thing. Please understand we tried to help you and your fish!! :(

As Mods and helpers here we have to weigh up the situation in each case, very carefully ;using our experience (thousands of posts similar that we have read and watched fish with the same symptoms and what worked or didn't) and try to give the best needs focused advice possible.

Many, many fish in this condition have died immediately in antibiotic medication. Period.Antibiotics, all meds in fact work best when the fishes organs are functioning (NOT flipped) in a cycled tank.

Most of the bacteria that get inside fish and cause damage are bacteria that are in all aquariums (cynaobacteria is indeed one, as I saw on the plant in your vid,I have also had it in my tanks many times-blue algae as it is often called is not toxic to fish in aerobic conditions). Ordinarily these bacteria do not affect the fish.The fish develop immunity to them. Stress factors in the tank build up to compromise immunity and the compromised fish (only) will succomb. Your fish was first compromised by something that damaged his swimbladder. This made him floaty and sticking to the filter and then in that very final curved shape. Based on what I have seen over 7 years helping in diagnosis forums here at kokos and my own medical research I want to tell you that you did what you could for your fish. In spite of feeling you could have done more :hug.

I am really, really sorry, your fish was clearly well loved and it is a horrible gutting experience to lose him like this.

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Thank you Trinket. You all were so helpful, and I am very grateful. It is weird because I never saw him acting wrong or looking wrong before I found him stuck to the filter. It is even weirder to me that two times since I first posted here he completely came out of it and was swimming around and eating normally. Once in the golfish bowl w/salt right after I found him stuck, and then when I put him in the sterilite container to do the deep vacuum of the gravel. It was like something in the main tank WAS toxic to him, because he immediately improved once in the sterilite container...and almost immediately got worse when I put him back in the tank. I stirred up a lot of stuff when I did the deep gravel vacuum, and I only emptied it about 60%. I feel like that is were I messed up. I should have emptied the tank 90%.

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Never mind hun :hug. You did great. Please don't blame yourself. He is at peace now.

It's funny what you say about that sudden recovery and then retreat.

When one of my fish was gravely sick once after a parasite outbreak, he floated badly and felt light. He was at death's door I knew.But the day before he died he did something amazing. He swam around the tank all perfect looking, like a last goodbye to his tank mates or life. He died the next day. Don't want to get all heavy or anything but they say with terminally ill patients, the very same thing can happen. A last final spurt of immune strength to give them a final moment of health before passing on :(. Quite weird but not unusual at all.

I wish all the strength in the world to your remaining fish. They are so cute and need you too :heart

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