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Very Sick Black Moor


Summer4

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Yesterday I did a 25% water change, and then later in the day I noticed my black moor missing. I found him stuck to the filter. I shut off the filter, and he was still alive so I moved him a goldfish bowl. I know that is really bad, but I did not have a quranteine tank set up (which I plan on doing now). I didn't want to leave him in the big tank, and get sucked back up onto the filter. I noticed he had a big patch of white fungas growing on his back. I only had jungle lifeguard here at the house, and treated him with that. He was still sick after a couple hours, and was at the top of the water in an arch. I added a little aquarium salt to the tank, and a few hours later he was swimming around! By this morning he was swimming around, and the big patch of fungas was gone. He did still have a tiny bit on his bottom back fins. He seemed really happy, and back to himself though. I went and got some pima fix and melafix, and I dosed my 56 gallon tank, and put him back in since he seemed to be doing great. I didn't want to leave him in the bowl any longer. He was ok at first, but about 30 min. later he started laying on the bottom of the tank. I added 10 tsps of salt to the tank, and he is currently still sitting at the bottom. Is there anything else I should do?


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (Can't remember the exact values for the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, but I did just check it yesterday and they were all within normal ranges on my API kit)
  • * Nitrite Level
  • * Nitrate level
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  • * Water temperature? 72/74
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 56gallons. Has been running for 5 months
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 Marineland peguine 200 ( I know I need more filtration)
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? 25% every week

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday 25%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 4 goldfish (1 fancy, 2 red cap orandas, 1 black moor) all 3 inches or less
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? flakes or pellets...once a day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? pimafix, melafix, salt
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. none before now
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? he had fungas. most is gone, but still has a tiny bit.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? since adding back to tank he is not swimming, and staying on bottom of tank.

Edited by Summer4
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Would you please re-do the tests for pH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates? I understand you say that it's in the normal range, but just so that we are on the same page, could you please test and post the numbers? Thanks.

Also, is it possible to take a pic of this patch of fungus? I am more inclined to think it's something else, like a bacterial infection that resembles a fungus, or overproduction of slimecoat. True fungal infections do occur in goldfish, but this is one of the rarer events.

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Would you please re-do the tests for pH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates? I understand you say that it's in the normal range, but just so that we are on the same page, could you please test and post the numbers? Thanks.

Also, is it possible to take a pic of this patch of fungus? I am more inclined to think it's something else, like a bacterial infection that resembles a fungus, or overproduction of slimecoat. True fungal infections do occur in goldfish, but this is one of the rarer events.

Yes, I can redo the tests. The big patch of white came off last night a couple hours after I added the salt. I just looked at him, and now I cant see anything on him. In the meantime...should I leave him in the big tank? I don't understand why he was doing so much better in the goldfish bowl, and then got sick when I moved him back. All my other fish are doing great right now.

Edited by Summer4
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My readings are Ammonia 0, ph 7.6, nitrite 0, nitrate 0. He is starting to swim around now. Hopefully he is feeling better, but I would still like to know what is going wrong. Right before this....I did have an algae growth in the tank. It is a little too close to a window, and I think that caused it. I am attaching some pictures...but I can't see anything on him now. Last night it was a big patch of cottony white on his back.

IMAG0263.jpg

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IMAG0260.jpg

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IMAG0256.jpg

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Edited by Summer4
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I have a few questions:

Have you ever treated for flukes? Changes in slime coat could be the result of pH shifts, or it could be external parasitism. If you have never treated for flukes, now is a good time :)

What is in the tank water right now? From what I gather, there is Melafix, Pimafix, and a little bit of salt. I think that's a lot of stuff in there. I would recommend doing a HUGE (80%) WC to take out all the chemicals and then just salt the tank to 0.1%. There are two links in my signature about salt, what kind of salt to use and how to salt.

Should you have any questions after that, please post :)

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No, I have never treated for flukes. What are they? My ph is normally 7.6...so no major changes there. Yes, my tank currently has pimafix, melafix, and salt in it. I don't have a python or aqueon water changer.....so an 80% change sounds aweful right now. I can go get one though. I did have an algae problem before my water change yesterday. A few weeks ago it was brown algae, and then recently it was green. Although, as you can see on one of my bubble wand suction cups it looks black...but I scrubbed and can't get that off. Do you think too much Prime could have caused the problems he experienced? I put in two capfuls on accident. I thought I didn't do it at the beginning, and them remembered I did.

Edited by Summer4
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A double dose of Prime should not have had any negative effects, as this is well within the recommended dosage range.

Because we don't have parameters from when there was a problem, there was no way to know if the pH had fluctuated. Do you know if you have soft or hard water? Your water utility knows this, so you can call them and ask instead of buying a test kit to determine the values.

Having a python is one of the greatest joys in fish keeping lol, especially when you have a larger tank. We normally recommend that people do at least one 50% WC weekly, if they are understocked or at stocking level, and much more if they are overstocked, while they are trying to correct the stocking issue.

May we see the full shot of your set up, please?

Here is a link to a very good article by Koko on flukes :)

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44861-flukes-diagnosis-and-treatment-options/

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I just looked up flukes, and that doesn't sound like what my fish had. It was a cottony white growth on his body & fins. One big patch on his back, and two small patches on each of his back fins.

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A double dose of Prime should not have had any negative effects, as this is well within the recommended dosage range.

Because we don't have parameters from when there was a problem, there was no way to know if the pH had fluctuated. Do you know if you have soft or hard water? Your water utility knows this, so you can call them and ask instead of buying a test kit to determine the values.

Having a python is one of the greatest joys in fish keeping lol, especially when you have a larger tank. We normally recommend that people do at least one 50% WC weekly, if they are understocked or at stocking level, and much more if they are overstocked, while they are trying to correct the stocking issue.

May we see the full shot of your set up, please?

Here is a link to a very good article by Koko on flukes :)

http://www.kokosgold...atment-options/

We have very hard water. It eats up our metal faucets, and leaves a bad residue everything. My tank at the top, and by the filter has a white residue from the hard water. Here is a pic of my tank. I am ordering two aquaclear 70's today....and an aqueon water changer from amazon.

IMAG0264.jpg

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Your description leads me to think that it's columnaris, which is a bacterial infection that is often confused for a fungal infection, as it can present with white cottony patches of growth.

What I would suggest for you to do is to do the recommended WCs, then add dissolved salt to 0.1%. Then tomorrow, add another 0.1% of salt to the tank to make it 0.2%. We should maintain salt at this concentration for at least one week, to make sure that there is no recurrence or occurrence on any one.

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So would it be 55 teaspoons of salt to get it to .1%? That sounds like a lot. That would be 18 TBSP's.

What salt are you using? Is it very fine grained or larger grained? For a 56 gallon tank, I would assume 51 gallons of actually water, or 51 teaspoons/17 level tablespoons to make 0.1%

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It is jungle aquarium salt, and it is large grained. I am going to do the water change right now. What is the best way to get salt to dissolve?

Edited by Summer4
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I always just put some tank (de-chlorinated) water in a pot, boil/heat the water, and then add salt to dissolve. I let the water cool down to the same temp as the tank, and then add :)

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LOL. Because as I explained before, it is a very rare occurrence to get a fungal infection in our tanks. It's possible, but the fish have to be very severely compromised. On the other hand, columnaris gets confused for a fungal infection all the time :)

How is your fish doing? Keep posting updates/questions anytime, please.

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LOL. Because as I explained before, it is a very rare occurrence to get a fungal infection in our tanks. It's possible, but the fish have to be very severely compromised. On the other hand, columnaris gets confused for a fungal infection all the time :)

How is your fish doing? Keep posting updates/questions anytime, please.

Ah....ok. He goes through periods of swimming around....and then goes and sits in the bottom corner again. I am just now going to go do the water change because i got busy with dinner and stuff. Wish I had my aqueon water changer......wish me luck, LOL.

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I just went to go start the water change, and I noticed my black moor now has little white spots on him. They were not there earlier.

IMAG0268.jpg

Edited by Summer4
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So.....last night before I did the water change my black moor was all swimming around and looking good. I did about a 75% water change, and added salt to .1%. After the water change he was still swimming all over and seemed happy. This morning he is back in the bottom corner....laying on the bottom pretty much not moving. I wonder if the pimafix and melafix were helping him before......he seems worse now.

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You can add Melafix back if you like. The thing you will want to be really careful when using these products is to make sure you have lots of aeration in the tank.

Let us know how he does. Has the white patch come back?

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