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tithra

Poop question ; )

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MMs are unopened, got them maybe 5 months ago. Do you think putting him back in the regular tank is okay even though it is deeper (instead of keeping him in the shallow water)? I feel confident I can stay on top of water changes to make sure parameters are stable. But Ph and temp are the same in both tanks. If you think it is better to put him back in the big one I can do that.

I am not totally positive that those were worms... but they could have been, I just don't know. And I vacuumed my gravel every 5 days and there was only 1/4-1/2 and inch! :(

Do you think both need to be fed meds? I have no experience with meds, I will need step by step and hand holding :)

Okay, here are a couple vids:

Edie today:

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=DSCN0037-1.mp4

Puff top view:

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=DSCN0044.mp4

Top view pic: (you can see red in wen again here)

DSCN0038.jpg

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I don't think Puff is bloated, which is good :)

I was wondering, did you ever salt them at 0.3% AFTER he first showed the pop eye? I am a little nervous using salt in fish which could eventually dropsy, but it has worked well for pop eye in the past.

You say Puff hasn't grown much - his head/wen are quite large compared to his body. I wonder if maybe a month of Jungle AP fed 3times a week would be a better idea that MMs? Imo will let you know what she thinks :)

Also, if he is comfortable in the shallow water QT I would maybe leave him there. How are the parameters going?

Any Spinach poop yet?

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I wonder if the red in the wen is ulceration underneath the wen. If that's the case, I don't think I would go with either Jungle AP or MMs, but Medi-Gold, to treat for that and the popeye. However, I would wait for Imo, as I would like to learn what she would recommend, as well.

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I don't see the redness. But I am bad with wens :)

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I don't see the redness. But I am bad with wens :)

I don't see the redness, either, Fede. It's hard to see it on a dark fish.

Tithra, can you try to get some more pics and/or vids to show the red. I don't want to downplay what you saw, but it's better to get confirmation :)

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Has the non pooper been pooping today?

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I never salted for Popeye because I figured I was being paranoid and didn't want to bother you guys with my paranoia ;)

His wen and head do seem large to me compared to his body.

I also never tried to get pics of the red spot in his wen because it is so difficult, I was surprised to see it show up in these pics and on the video. I will try to get a pic tonight or circle it for you on the pic above.

There appears to be a couple really short but normal width pieces of poop in the tank this morning.

He was resting last night with his head jammed under a leaf, but his body was still floating above the bottom. So I think he just wanted to stop floating for a bit (as opposed to a complete bottom sit...although maybe he was trying to bottom sit and couldn't)

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Params in qt are 0,0,0 this morning, but I did a big water change last night.

I think I would like to keep him there for the time being. If you guys think it's okay. He seems to be slightly more stable in the shallow water, there's less for him to run into and injure himself in, and Edie can be a bully to him sometimes (I had to use a divider with them when I first got them!)

I'm very good about checking parameters and keeping up on necessary water changes ;)

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If he seems to have an easier time in shallow water and you can handle the increased water changes I'd keep him there until he was acting normal. Unless Imogen had some theories about them being treated together with meds. Have you been increasing the depth each day you see improvement or have you been keeping it at one constant lvl?

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I have not tried to increase it... I wasn't sure what the procedure was for that :) (increase every day or keep it level for awhile?)

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If he is happy where he is, not getting worse, handling the lower water better and there are ANY chances of bullying from Edie, (answer yes to all?) then definitely leave him where he is :)

Wow, Edie looks very good. Totally fine.

:clapping:

And you know Puff's behavior in the latest video looks more normal.The normal poop is truly excellent news!!

Let's just recap on the triggers for his getting spirally/floaty and also the bottom sitting. Could you just have an extra sensitive fish with a very heavy head and a slightly damaged or not working 100% efficiently swim bladder? :hmm It's possible the frayed tail was stress from bullying, deep water and CHANGE.

So....can you monitor exactly 1. when he is floaty (after which food/after or before w/c etc). 2. How many minutes/hours he head stands.

I would still hold off meds for a bit.

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Should I treat the pop eye now? Or hold off?

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Here is the redness I am talking about (I just circled it). It is only red in that one spot, and only noticeable when the light hits it just right because whatever it is is below the surface and not immediately visible. This has happened before (maybe twice before I have noticed it) on different spots of his wen and I have always just kept an eye on it and it has gone away on its own.

When I embed the circled spot goes away, so I am linking direct :)

http://i436.photobuc...n3/DSCN0038.jpg

http://i436.photobuc...n3/DSCN0036.jpg

I will start keeping a log regarding head standing, time of day, and foods fed etc.

Really, he is floaty all the time, it just gets worse at times, so I will try to pin point what triggers it to get worse. He never headstands for a long period of time, it is always a brief head stand, then he rights himself, then it will happen again etc.

And just let me know what I should do regarding the pop eye.

Edited by tithra

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Regarding the pop eye. Has he been in salt since e got it?

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Well, he was in .1% for a couple days when this all started, but I haven't added more recently, and I have not salted before this (besides when I first got them). His eyes have been like that for at least a couple months without any major change.

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I would try salt. From what I have seen it is good for popeye. I had one fish also have it for about 6 months. She got dropsy after 4 months of popeye n then passed. So treating it would be preferable

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Is the treatment amount .3% or should I do a lower amount?

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I always thought unless you were doing a salt dip you started at the lowest salt 0.1% and then increased if needed.

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I always thought unless you were doing a salt dip you started at the lowest salt 0.1% and then increased if needed.

That's correct. You can only increase salt by 0.1% every 12 hours, to prevent shock both to the fish and to the biological filter. In the case of popeye, salt needs to be raised all the way up to 0.3%.

Let's wait to get Imo's thoughts on the salt as well. Since it has been months with popeye, there isn't such a hurry to start immediately :)

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okay I will hold off for further confirmation on next steps.

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Regular salt can help osmote fluids from around the eye, even as low as 0.1%...although fluids there are pretty stubborn as the eye area is a completely cut off closed vascular system.

More important right now is the cycle in the QT. It's not 100% stable if you have seen ammonia at any level since setting up. So I would not go over 0.1% in the QT at this point. If you can manage 0.1% (it is the simplest dose : just one teaspoon per gallon of water you put in) and still keep that cycle (pH and temp too) stable then do it. It will help him. That's what i suggest you do next.

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Okay, I will salt to .1%, you know I looked back at the RG pics and he definitely did not have that fluid before :( I will try to let the water go a little and see if my cycle is stable yet (params were 0 0 0 today, but I did another big water change again just in case they changed while I was at work).

I tried to feed a little agar agar gel food today, and now he is floating like a cork at the top of the tank.

Here is a video update: http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=DSCN0045.mp4

Does anyone have ideas regarding the redness in the wen? Is that normal? anyone look at the pics I posted where it is circled? You can see it in the above video as well if you look (1:26 is a good shot of it)

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tithra, I've been following this post and I don't have anything to add. (you're in very good hands) But I felt so sad to watch poor Puff. And I know you do too. I'm sending healing vibes his way......

I can see the red. Again, I don't have experience with this, but I do think (and hope) it could just be growth.

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thank you kaytee, I do hate seeing him look so sad. And it is so confusing if there is something serious going on or if it is just that he is a sensitive floaty fish. It's frustrating. But I am thankful for everyone's help and support here :)

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Do you have those Metromeds handy? Are they fresh and unopened? After seeing he is not getting better and very listless, I think you should feed a course of those. The red sore place in his wen at very least should be helped with a course of Metro and oxytetracycline. If your fish has never had antibiotics, he has a better chance of them being effective too :heart Metro is also soothing on the GI tract if he has a lot of gas build up in there. It's not such a big deal and should be done while he still has appetite.

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