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Poop question ; )


tithra

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You would want two use a sponge filter or two. You can remove the filter media and secure the filter floss around the sponge filter with a rubber band, and place the ceramic rings on top of the sponge filter to help seed them. :)

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Lowering the water level sounds like it would help him. For true swim bladder disorder it really does.

Just to quickly explain true swimbladder malfunction (as oppose to infection/constipation/gas/egg issues or swelling of GI tract)

There are basically 3 parts of the airsacs that can malfunction. The gas gland that is responsible for releasing gases like carbon dioxide, the 'rete mirabile' which is the tiny pumping device allowing gases to always be in perfect balance and the pneumatic duct which is the tube connecting the swimbladder airsacs to the air passages involved in fish ''breathing'' through their gills and mouth. It depends which is infected or malfuntioning whether the airsacs just simply deflate or stay so inflated that farther gases cannot get through well and poisonous ones build up.

Since the expelling of gases in the water -in all water- and taking up of others-is what the swimbladder does in order to allow the fish to remain straight and swim straight....surface bubbles are extra important for sb impaired fish. Compared to bubble wands, the oxygen available to be dissolved down into the water column are more effective on the surface of the water, and in fact via force from above, so surface ruffle caused by lower water level may in fact be very helpful for Puff :). The more oxygen he can get into his airsacs/swimbladder the better his chances of exchanging it for the toxic gases.

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I went out looking for sponge filters today, but no one sold them. So, I rigged up the filter with a piece of padding that hangs down. I have my 29 gallon about 40% full right now, Puff is still very floaty, but seems slightly more in control. Should I try to decrease the water level even more?

I fed peas again today... I haven't seen any poop in the tank yet, but I also wasn't home all day so it may have gotten sucked up already. I also have not seen any bottom sitting today. I'm not sure that he could even if he wanted to right now. But, interestingly, I did find Edie bottom sitting today in the same spot in the main tank that Puff had been. She did not immediately get up when I came over, but did after a couple minutes and I haven't seen her do it again since (she has never bottom sat before and has never had any swim bladder issues... she moves like a single tail fish!).

Am I doing everything I should be doing? Is lowering the water level in the QT a good idea, or no?

Here's a video of the QT tank right now and Puff's behavior today:

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=IMG_0377.mp4

here's Edie bottom sitting:

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=IMG_0376.mp4

EDIT: we posted at the same time :)

Edited by tithra
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Okay, thank you for the explanation Trinket, that is helpful to understand. Would you mind looking at the video and let me know what changes you would suggest to the set up? Is there enough oxygen in the water do you think?

Also, should I fast him? feed peas?

Thanks again for your help! I really appreciate it :)

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The setup looks great, and I would try decreasing the water level to about 25%. If the filter will still works at that water level, that is. Can you get a close-up video or photo of Puff's eyes? From the video they almost look pop eye like, but it could just be my eyes playing tricks on me. :) I think fasting Puff for a few days and then feeding peas would be good, but I'm interested to hear Imo's opinion about that as well.

That's so strange about Edie bottom sitting. Let's hope he's just a little freaked out by the removal of Puff, and not ill.

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Thanks Sakura. Okay, I will decrease the water level a bit more. I will try to get an up close pic/vid of his eyes tomorrow. I have thought in the past he might have pop eye as well, but they seem to always look like that a bit, but I would love some input on that.

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Eeek, I can't see the vid tithra. It says "not available"

It is a bit concerning if Edie is now bottom sitting. He looked so healthy and sprightly in the last vid..

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I just wanted to share my observations with my fish. I have had a few cases where dropsy followed the appearance of floaty problems in fish. If your fish has fluid in his eyes too, I would maybe consider feeding him MMs. That is just my opinion as I find that if you feed them early enough, to otherwise healthy fish, you have very good results.

Also, maybe you could replace the bubbler in the QT tank with a sponge filter? Or something else which adds oxygen without stressing the little guy out when he swims by it :)

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Here are the links again:

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=IMG_0377.mp4

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=IMG_0376.mp4

I haven't seen Edie bottom sit again since that one incident.... and I actually got a little crazy last night and removed all my TMS. I was nervous about adding it in the first place and with this weird stuff going on now I am heading back to bare bottom.

Thank you for your input! I will get a pic of Puff's eyes when I get home from work today.

I have MMs on hand if you guys think it is a good idea, but I would definitely like some direct "yes do it" before I do it. The meds make me a little nervous, but then again so does dropsy!

I can order a sponge filter online. No one had them locally! I went everywhere last night!

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I managed to see the video finally thanks. I cannot see the eyes well enough but if you and Sakura suspect pop eye, and your other fish has suddenly started bottom sitting then the situation is very different from just airsac malfunction. And med food maybe the next step.

I see you say that you removed the gravel...I would have done the same.........and I'm still tempted to say wait and see how Edie goes without that and if he bottom sits again.

Have either of your fish had any antibiotics before now? Water or food?

Have you seen any recent poop?

You say gills are very meaty red and healthy?

No visible tiny red spots around his chin or on his belly (Puffs).

No other symptoms at all as of now except the spiralling/floatiness... which seems to be worse in this vid doesnt it?....

Is Edie bottom sitting in the new tank set up?

Really important is "if things are getting worse" this is key..

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I have not recently been concerned about pop eye, but did wonder if he had it a couple months ago, but the rings never got any worse so I just assumed that's what his eyes are like naturally.

I did not see any poop in the qt tank this morning. There was some from Edie in the main tank and it looked normal. Puff was resting in a normal mid tank position this morning. I have not seen bottom sitting since I moved him to qt. I don't see any red spots on his belly or anything weird like that, and the floating and spiraling you see in the video is at its worse, and it seems like it gets worst at night (after feeding time I suppose).

I will grab another video of him and his eyes tonight.

Thank you again for your input and help, it is so appreciated... I am very attached to these guys!

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Okay, things sound manageable for now. Not like anything is going to change overnight. That sand may well have been a trigger in some way for them both.

Are you confident that the QT cycle will hold with transferred media?

I think I would wait a little. If you can get another video up and a zoom in on his eyes that would be good.

And watch out for any poop at all and update on that, as it is also a clue.

A dark cover on one half of the tank would give Puff a destress quiet zone. Did you say he was eating well? I maybe missed that.

I have to get to bed here in this time zone but I'll check back on y'all tomorrow :heart

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I agree, you should wait.

You say the floating is worse after food right? And you have been feeding peas? I have issues with peas for my floaty fish. Einstein has not had any floaty probs in almost a year off commercial foods. But he will float if I feed him peas. I think it is because they have a high carb content. Do you have something like spinach or zucchini on hand? Those are much better I have noticed.

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He has been eating well. I haven't been feeding pellets to him for awhile besides the jump start pellets that I started feeding right after this started (I'm not feeding them now). I do have spinach and zucchini I can try.

No, I'm not confident that the transferred media will hold the cycle. I've had .25 ammonia already, but I transferred quite a bit so I'm hoping it will stabilize soon. I am testing water in both tanks 2x a day just in case of a bump. Also using 2x prime in the qt. I changed the water last night bc of ammonia, no ammonia this morning when I tested.

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How big is his QT tank? You can always do daily water changes or every 2 days. I like doing frequent water changes when my fish are sick. It seems to help a lot.

JumpStart also makes my fish float. Just a thought :)

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Qt is 29 gallons (but not filled up all the way of course). I have been doing at least 50% daily water changes since this started, I have no problem keeping up with this schedule :)

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Okay, I have not seen any bottom sitting again today (from either fish), which makes me feel a million times better. I lowered the water level in the QT tank some more. I also have not seen any poop in the QT tank, which makes me wonder if Puff hasn't pooped in two days despite being fed peas (I fed spinach tonight).

I took another video of what he's doing today and tried to get a close up on the eyes. I want to note that there is some red in Puff's wen in one pic, this is not a trick of the camera, it is there in real life when the light hits it just right. He has had this before, but it always has gone away on it's own (I have always assumed maybe it was color change starting or just blood vessels under the surface idk). May be nothing, but figured it might be worth pointing out.

He has been active tonight (gulping air and trying to swim around!). Gills look red and meaty as far as I can tell (but I also don't have much to compare it to so who knows, they look red to me! :) )

VIDEO: http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=DSCN0030.mp4

DSCN0036.jpg

DSCN0034.jpg

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I do think r has pop eye :( I have fish who have had internal issues and the pop eye is really the first thing to come and last to go. How long has he has it? Can we have a top view pic of him?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I first noticed it, I don't know? maybe 2 months ago? I just figured that was what his eyes looked like! eek!

Okay, I took some pics and a video top view... I am waiting for them to upload. I check the top view every day and haven't noticed any lifting scales yet (that I can tell anyway).

Also, Edie started twitching tonight... maybe I am just being paranoid, but I have never seen her move like this, weird quick twitchy movements, like she is trying to flick her tail. ugh. She has also been super skittish (freaking out and running into things when I turn on the light, but this may just be due to her tank mate being gone and the new aquarium setup).

I also want to mention that when I was taking out the gravel I thought I might have seen some tiny worms... really short and really thin and white. But they didn't look alive at all, so I thought maybe it was just stuff from the plants or something. But, now I am thinking what if it is pin worm or something like that!? I just have no idea. So, figured I'd throw that out there too.

I will upload a top view of Puff and Edie twitching soon. Thanks again for your help :) It's nice to have people who understand you being worried about your fish (everyone else thinks I'm crazy for thinking anything might be wrong).

what should I do for the pop eye?

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Are both tanks temperature and pH same?

If so i would putt Puff back home. Any water probs in teh QT water are going to make everything worse.

Then, let's think about meds. Does look like fluid around the eyes and the tiny worms indicate at some point organics got high which can be the cause of that fluid build up.

How old are your MMs? Are they still unopened?

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