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tithra

Poop question ; )

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thanks Sakura :)

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I'm sorry about Puff! Get well, Puff.

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Thanks Shawnee! He has been looking perkier since I did a water change and added salt, I think it may have been the way I added the koi clay.

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i hope he continues to improve.. sometimes fish behave weird when changes are made :)

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i hope he continues to improve.. sometimes fish behave weird when changes are made

Thanks stakos. He seems to be doing okay now. My bf reported some bottom sitting during the day, but I haven't personally seen it again. I'm continuing to do extra water changes and just keeping an eye on him. Haven't yet tried the koi clay again.

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Hi! I was trying not to have to post again, but I am really concerned this morning. Puff had seemed to be doing well the last few days, except that my bf reported some bottom sitting when I wasn't home, and after I tried to put 1/4 tsp of koi clay in again (I diluted in a glass of water this time and let it sit for about 30 minutes) the other day he bottom sat again. I did a 50% water change and he seemed okay again.

I came home last night and he was bottom sitting, I did another 50% water change and he was up and about.

This morning he is really bottom sitting (if there could be degrees). He did not move when I turned the light on or tapped on the glass. When I touched him he moved, but wen right back down. I took video of this. I am about to do another water change.

He has been eating. I hand fed him peas the other day (so that Edie wouldn't get them), and I am now fairly certain the weird poop that I continue to find in the tank is from him because I found green colored spiral poop yesterday.

Any ideas would be welcome, I'm feeling a bit anxious about all this.

Ammonia - 0, nitrite - 0, nitrate - 0, Ph - 7.6, temp - 75f

I am working on uploading the video, will post it asap.

EDIT: I should say that I have been doing daily 50% water changes.

Edited by tithra

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I know you said you've treated with flukes, but I wonder if it may be a good idea to go with a few more rounds + salt.

Hopefully others will comment soon :)

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Here is the video:

http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=IMG_0373.mp4

He got up to eat, but went back to bottom sitting. I am thinking about setting up QT for him this evening bc I don't like the idea of him laying on the substrate

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ah! sorry it is sideways, I didn't know that would happen.

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I found a pic online of what the poop looks like. It has been white like this before, but the other day after feeding peas it looked just like this but green.

http://www.google.co...=1t:429,r:1,s:0

you still can't see much detail in this pic, but you can kind of see how the white poop inside the casing is in a tight curled spiral pattern, but the outside casing is normal.

Edited by tithra

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So, all day Puff has been swimming around for maybe 10 minutes or so and then bottom sitting for 30-60 minutes at a time. I put an extra airstone in the tank, changed the water, fed peas, and put in .1% salt.

He was staying in that one corner by the filter intake, but has recently started wedging himself in the plants (maybe he needs something to hold him down maybe because of his floatiness?). I also noticed he has a small tear in his tail :( ugh... this sucks. I hate worrying about my fish. I feel like there's nothing I can do.

I haven't gotten out the QT... I keep going back and forth on whether or not I should. I just wonder if another tank switch would be more stressful and not beneficial? Any input on whether you think I should just leave him be or set up the QT would be much appreciated.

Here is another video: http://s436.photobucket.com/albums/qq81/jegreen3/?action=view&current=IMG_0375.mp4

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Do you have Prazi around? I would do 2-4 rounds of Prazi, with this schedule:

- day 0, add Prazi

- day 4, big WC

- day 5, big WC, add Prazi

- day 9, big WC

- day 10, big WC, add Prazi

- day 14, big WC

Etc etc

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I wish I had some answers, but I'm at a loss. :( I think Alex's suggestion of prazi and maybe salt is a good thing to try.

I also think it could be possible that he has something internal going on that you might not be able to do anything about. But I'm hoping for the best. If you can move him in such a way that's as least stressful as possible, I think it would be good to do that. Just because there's the risk that Edie might start bullying him when you're not there to see it happen. Healthy fish sometimes have a tendency to pick on weaker ones.

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I do have prazi... I will start that tonight.

Okay, I will move him, Edie is always a bit of a bully, but she has been pushing him around a bit more I have noticed.

Thanks for the replies, it has been so up and down today.. one minute he looks fine and the next he looks absolutely miserable, it's a bit confusing!

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okay, Puff is in a 29 gallon QT tank (with a seeded AC 70 and an air stone), with .1% salt and prazi (temp is 73). He has been up and about in there so far. He is pretty floaty tonight though. I wonder if maybe he is just super constipated? Does it do any harm to just feed peas for a few days in a row?

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There is no harm at all. How many peas do you give him each time? For his size, he can easily handle 2 peas at a time. I actually feed mine more when I am trying to purge.

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I usually do 2-3 a piece (I'm glad to hear you say they can handle 2 because I was wondering if I was overdoing it). Peas it is! I would like to see what his poop looks like for certain now that he is alone.

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It is still possible that Puff is re-absorbing eggs. That spirally poop, could be a mix of eggs in a jelly casing...it's really tricky to identify unless you can get a pic of the poop actually coming out as there is a distinctive jaggedness not caught well in fallen poop.

The thing that strikes me is that your other fish looks absolutely fine..with the new koiclay and is having no issues at all and totally healthy poop. Yet they are both getting the same food and are/were in the same water/tank.

So I would be inclined to say this is internal. Since the floaty issues have been going on "for some time" (how long is that by the way..since you got her/him or about a month or..?).......it seems even more possible.

Have you seen any more poop? Has Puff been floaty since you got him/her as sometimes, as Alex mentioned a 100% water change and or major tank change like new substrate can shock a floaty fish into bottom sitting.

Frayed tail could also be stress.

Is your temperature very stable there?

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Thanks so much for stopping by Trinket! I am really pretty concerned. I had to turn the flow on my AC down because he seems to have very little control over his swimming right now and was getting pushed around by the flow.

I really think he is male (his vent is concave and he has had breeding stars in the past)... but I know people have been wrong before, but I just doubt the reabsorbing eggs thing because of that. I do however, strongly feel that it is an internal issue.

He did not have SB issues when I first got him, but he started getting a little light in the water soon after. I think SB problems have been going on for 3-4 months, and it has been getting progressively worse. He didn't used to gulp at the surface when I first got him, but does it absolutely all the time now. All day long he gulps at the surface, which I believe may be the primary cause of his SB problems. (I have never fed floating food, so I don't know why he would do this so consistently).

I will try to get a pic of the poop again. It has just been so thin that my camera could not take a clear picture of it.

I added the TMS to the tank before I upgraded and he seemed okay with it (no bottom sitting at that point), I upgraded my tank and moved its position a 2-3 (?) weeks ago, the bottom sitting started after this tank change. I have a heater going in the tank to keep temp stable. It's set to 73-75 degrees.

Any input or ideas of what to do next would be highly appreciated. I honestly really don't think it is flukes, but an internal digestive issue.

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Here's a video of "normal" behavior (this was taken earlier today while he was up and about, this is what he normally does)

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Okay I see. What a cutie.This really does look swimbladder related.

It's like he is irritated by losing balance and mistakenly assuming he can fill his swimbladder with air as he did as a baby (that is after alll how fry develop their airsacs by going to the surface to fill them). Then he tries to lodge himself in some place, and managed to finally sink solid on the bottom and find some peace there for a while.

I don't think this is egg related either after seeing the vid. Egg bound fish and fish re-absorbing that i have witnessed do not behave quite like this. I'm thinking his insides are damaged somewhere, either the airsacs are not working well as they should to expel gases ("lighter in the water" symptom) or his GI tract is swollen, infected or damaged and he is having digestion problems. Or both.

How much is he eating? How is his appetite?

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His appetite seemed a little off the first day I posted a week ago, but has been fine since. He gets excited to eat (comes to the glass and wiggles). This is how i got him off the bottom yesterday was by putting food in the tank. I have had to hand feed him some bc Edie is very quick and pushy with food, but I always put my hand down in the water below the surface to do this (to avoid the surface being related to food).

Do you think just peas for awhile is a good idea? How can I stop him from gulping? (million dollar question right?) ;)

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I should also add that while Edie has grown in both length and width since I got them, Puff seems to not have grown much either way.

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Have you ever done a low depth treatment to deal with the swim bladder? I wonder if there was less struggle while he was moving then he would maybe focus on healing for a bit.

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^ no I haven't but, this would be the perfect time to try it since he is in QT! The one question I would have about that is how do you make the filter not splash like crazy if you lower the water level a lot? Just a piece of padding in the output?

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