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tithra

Poop question ; )

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    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level 0
  • * Nitrite Level 0
  • * Nitrate level 5 ppm
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  • * Water temperature? 72 F
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40 gallons, tank is new but filters have been established for 6 months
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? AC 70 and Eheim Ecco canister (459 gph total)
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? every 4-5 days 50-80%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 5 days, 100%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2, 5-6 inches
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? 1-2x a day, gel food, veggies, bloodworms, hikari pellets
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Treated with salt/Prazi when I got them
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? no
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
  • no, just some swim bladder issues and gulping air at the surface.

Being my normal paranoid self I wanted to ask you guys about the poop I have recently been seeing, even though I'm sure it's probably just constipation and nothing to worry about, but it always feels good to have someone else confirm that there's nothing to worry about ;)

For the last 3-4 days I have been finding this weird spiral poop in my tank. It is very thin, has a normal round casing around it and then inside the casing there is poop (the color of whatever food I have fed) in a very tight spiral pattern (and it is very thin). I can't be totally certain, but I think it is coming from Puff (who is male). He has had a lot of floaty problems recently and has gotten into the habit of gulping air (I have been doing a fast once a week, peas twice a week, just started spirulina flakes and agar agar gel food). So, I am thinking this is just constipation, right? I tried to get a pic, but couldn't get a clear one.

I fasted him yesterday and just fed peas this morning. Just want to make sure that this spirally poop isn't a sign of anything else like internal parasites or something.

Thanks!

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Are you sure Puff, or whomever pooped it, is male? It makes me think of egg poop...

Edited by dnalex

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I know, I had that thought too... Edie is a female, and I can't be certain it was Puff, so maybe. I am fairly certain of their genders, Puff has had breeding stars in the past and has an inny and Edie has an outie, so... maybe it is egg poop. Now I'm going to be at the tank waiting for one of them to poop! : )

Egg poop is fine. As long as it's not a sign of anything else that is great :)

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Is it zigzag-y, or like crimped hair?

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it's not a zig zag, but literally a tight spiral (like curled hair) and only the inside of the poop is spiraled, the outer clear casing is smooth and round if that makes sense. It's weird. I have never seen poop quite like it yet.

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Could you try to take a pic of it if you are able? You know this forum just loves to look at fish poop pics :rofl

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lol... I just vacuumed the tank so now the poop is gone :( I will keep a look out for more and maybe try a video (it was too small to get a clear pic)

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I think Imo once mentioned sort of knotted poop to be a sign of irritated intestines? In normal casings... (?)

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^ yes, knotted is a good way to describe it!

I wonder why intestines would become irritated?

Does my course of action sound good? (peas... or could peas be the irritant?)

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I am not sure. I remember that Ingrid gets that once in a while when she is eggy. How about making veggie gel food with probiotics? And wheat germ. I would make sure that they get something nourishing.

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I feed agar agar gel food with acidophilus in it, I have not tried wheat germ yet, but can do that.

I have some jumpstart that I haven't opened, do you think that would be good to feed?

Edited by tithra

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alright! I will try it...

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UPDATE! :(

So, Puff has been bottom sitting all morning near the filter intake :( I am soo freaking out and worried right now. Okay. Here's the recent info:

- Changed 80% of the water last night, will do another 80% change right now just in case something happened last night during the water change

- Ammonia today = 0, nitrite = 0, nitrate = 0, Ph = 7.6 (tap and tank)

- I continue to find normal poop in the tank (which I really think is Edie's) and super skinny white poop (which I really think is Puff's)

- Puff has a history of swim bladder issues, and I think a lot of it is caused by gulping at the surface, which he habitually does

- Things I have changed recently: upgraded the tank (filters are the same, plants and substrate are the same), started feeding some jumpstart a couple days ago, started using koi clay (put some in the tank last night and soaked their food in it), started feeding agar agar gel food.

Please help :(

photo.jpg

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I'm sorry Puff is having issues :(

Let me just ask a few questions to clarify:

1. When did the bottom sitting start relative to koi clay & agar agar?

2. What brand of koi clay did you get? How did you add it to the tank? Did you pre-mix?

3. Does Puff react to you at all when you come hear the tank or bring food?

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I don't have any advice but I juat wanted to say that I hope Puff is ok. He is such a beautiful fish.

Maybe I di have some input. Does he swim around when you approach the tank? Martini sits in the same area quite a bit but swims around when it's feeding time or when I walk up to the tank. I was reading about this in the fancy goldfish book and it appears that it could be flukes kind of draining her energy. I too recently upgraded and doesn't stress sometimes bring out something that normally isn't a problem? I think I'm gonna prazi the tank to be safe. Sorry I'm rambling. Just thought that this might be what was going on with Puff.

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I don't have any advice but I juat wanted to say that I hope Puff is ok. He is such a beautiful fish.

Maybe I di have some input. Does he swim around when you approach the tank? Martini sits in the same area quite a bit but swims around when it's feeding time or when I walk up to the tank. I was reading about this in the fancy goldfish book and it appears that it could be flukes kind of draining her energy. I too recently upgraded and doesn't stress sometimes bring out something that normally isn't a problem? I think I'm gonna prazi the tank to be safe. Sorry I'm rambling. Just thought that this might be what was going on with Puff.

Molly, I totally agree with this, and that's why I was asking the questions in the post before. Even though upgrading to a bigger tank ultimately is much better, the stress of moving and being in a new environment could lead to the stress poop, or flukes getting the upper hand. I'm not sure if tithra treated for flukes before, but I have a feeling she did. The other possibility is something internal. Hopefully, this can all be sorted out quickly, and Puff can go back to being happy & healthy :)

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Thanks for the reply Molly! I'm so paranoid about them getting sick. He is probably fine, but bottom sitting/resting is not normal for him, usually he rests mid tank (or at the top when he is floaty). I think the bottom sitting combined with the poop I have been finding is concerning me.

He got up and swam around when I first put on the light this morning, but then went back to bottom sitting, and he did not get up at all when I was taking pictures or standing by the tank. :( He has gotten up to swim around a couple times since then, but goes back.

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Alex, I have treated for flukes in the past (when I first got them I did a full round) and (obviously) no fish have been added since then. I have added plants, but have always taken great care to bleach them.

So, just do a wait and see right now? Extra water changes? Do I need to QT do you think? (I would prefer not to set up my other tank, but if you think it is best I will) Should I treat for flukes again?

EDIT: he just at a couple pellets, but ignored the rest. He just looks mopey, even when swimming around.

- Also his gills look nice and red/look like what they typically look like

Edited by tithra

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Will you clarify on what you mean when you say a full round? The thing with flukes is that I don't think we can ever truly get rid of all of them on the fish. There will always be some sub-clinical number of flukes hanging around, and this number is usually kept under control by the fish's immune system. When a stressful event occurs, fluke numbers can expand. That's why some people actually treat their fish yearly, or every other year or so.

For now, let's leave him where he is. I can never say no to extra water changes lol.

Did he eat his food today?

Also, do you have Metro-Meds or Jungle AP on hand? I am not advocating medication at this time, but I think it's good to know what you have on hand, just in case.

Also, how did you add the koi clay to the tank?

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I did 5 treatments (5 weeks) of Prazi (added it after first water change, waited 6-7 days, did another water change and added the Prazi again for 5 weeks)

He ate two pellets and then seemed uninterested (granted those jumpstart pellets are pretty big)

I have metro meds and I have medi gold on hand unopened.

I soaked their pellets in a little water with about a teaspoon of koi clay last night, then I just dumped the koi clay water and pellets in the tank.

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Do you think it could be something with the swim bladder? Like instead of being float now he is being sinky lol.... idk, or maybe swim bladder issues are getting better and he's just not used to floating around all time. bah. darn fish.

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I think the first thing I would recommend doing is to do as big a water change as you can, taking care to make sure the temp & pH do not deviate much from current numbers.

I will have to find where I read it from, but koi clay can be very irritating to the fish, because when you add it to the water, the first thing it will do is expand 12x. If some of this gets into Puff's gills, it can be very irritating. This came to mind because when I first added the koi clay to my 55, I literally just dumped about little less than a teaspoon to the tank, and almost immediately, Ulquiorra sank to the bottom (which he never does) and stayed there. I ended moving him to a different tank, and he was better after that. So, I would try doing the WC first, and then go from there.

What I have taken to do with the koi clay is to pre-mix it in a gallon of water first, and then add the correct dosage to the tank from the pre-mixed clay. I know that Koko & Fang also do the same.

Do you think it could be something with the swim bladder? Like instead of being float now he is being sinky lol.... idk, or maybe swim bladder issues are getting better and he's just not used to floating around all time. bah. darn fish.

It could very well be this. Ulquiorra, who sank right after adding koi clay, also was a perennial floater in the months before that.

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^ oh! Good to know about the koi clay. That is a great idea to pre-mix it. I wonder if that might be what is going on, I definitely did not mix it with much water and I think they even ate a couple pieces lumps that hadn't fully dissolved.

- I will add the .1% salt right now as well.

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