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mold or fungus or velvet etc


coco

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:hmm nothing wrong with the PH???!!! my tap is 7.4, and my tank is 8.

Ok Im really starting to think the main part of this tanks problem is the PH going down. I would suggest a Buffer like (buff it up) or http://www.seachem.c...oldBuffer.html. Im thinking this is the reason they look like this and being sluggish.

Also Crushed coral will help too :thumb:

For sure the pH in the salt dip could have caused the issues. I have never had such an experience with caking. I think koko's suggestions are great.

:hmm nothing wrong with the PH???!!! my tap is 7.4, and my tank is 8.

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pH is on a logarithmic scale not a standard scale, so a jump of 0.6 can be substantial, it's not as bad for the fish when you're only changing a fraction of the water but when you're doing big water changes it can make quite a difference. The fact that your pH rises in the tank is a bit more unusual, usually it drops unless there's something carbonate based in the tank like crushed coral or limestone. You can help counter it by adding new water over a longer period of time so the fish acclimatise to it better each waterchange, I wouldn't mess with the buffers for that change but if your fish are off anyway and you do big water changes with that difference it will not be good for your fish. pH is notorious for causing slimecoat issues too.

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Sorry your right I read it backwards, but as DD stated even backwards can cause them problem... Do you have rocks or ornaments in this tank? have you tested to see what would the ph be in a bucket?

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@ devil duck & koko

I don't know much about Ph, but i know that unless its below 6.3 or its unstable (veering all over the place), only then wud i even 'contemplate' doing something about it. I know we have very hard water.

My tank is ornament & plastic plant & gravel free. I pretty much give them as much swimming space as possible, even though its a big tank (6ft). Over 3 yrs i learnt, the more i prettify it, the more place for crap&bacteria to hide, so i don't.

I acknowledge the 0.6 difference. But since my fishes are 3 yrs old, i assume they're use to it. but in future i will be alert that i must use the main tank water for treatment(assuming its clean), since the tap is a 0.6 difference.

Today i did a 2nd salt dip ( warmed with kettle water), they have less salt 'cake' over them.That slime stuff has not increased, even abated a tiny little, don't know whether thats cos after 1x salt dip, and 2x 90% water change.

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Last night, after googling and seeing other pics on the net, i figured out, he must have excess slimecoat?! And the cause is the fishes overproducing to protect themselves, protection from ph changes etc....which will explain why DD & KK are focusing on the PH.....but then i recalled that they had the excess slime beforehand it had been 1.5 weeks since their last water change (i was ill that weekend and missed that water change, since their water param were ok) and prior to my 2x 90% waterchange. I don't understand why the excess slimecoat?! If it is that....

Another sad & anxious day to begin.......

None has worked ;wormer plus, pimafix, pp bath, 2xsalt dip, melafix, 2 x 90% water change

the orange one has passed away yesterday....and my OH dismantled the Q tank & filter!

Beardy/the large black fish is the same.......all that white slime/mold

Unfortunately, after his salt dip yesterday, now the little black one has dropsy?! i don't have mm?! in the uk?!

The boiler can't be fixed til tues/tomorrow....

I haven't fully recovered from being ill

And i'm suppose to fly to the usa this thurs for 2 weeks.....noone will be able to see after them whilst i'm away

This is all too much stress.........................

What's the best thing to do for them in the next 3 days.

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I am sorry to hear your fish are not doing well, and I'm terribly sorry you lost one :(

Just adding my two cents here about the pH... I noticed you only tested using the high range pH drops? Have you also tested your tap water with the regular pH kit?

Even though this scale would lead you to believe that your tap pH is 7.4, it could in fact be even lower. This is because 7.4 is as low as this scale will go. Any time I test my pH and it is right at the bottom of that scale (or the top of the regular pH scale), I will use both tests to determine what the pH really is. And I would have to agree that the drop from 8-7.4 is a bit much for them to handle. It is not that 7.4 is an unbearable pH (because it isn't)... it is the sudden change that is extremely unhealthy for them.

I wish you good luck, and hope your fish feel better soon.

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Hi and thx, Yes the sudden change isn't good, its going from 7.4 to 8,and not 8 to 7.4 - i thought a downward swing would be worse than an upward swing.

Yes i've tested the low range ph and it was at the top, so between the 2 ranges.

The same fish has been with us for 3 yrs, and only now objects to the ph of the water tap & tank?! None of it makes sense.

This is what i'm reading,

"Be aware that the importance of pH is often exaggerated. A stable pH is more important than maintaining it in the ideal range for Goldfish. The process of altering the pH of your tank is likely to stress the fish more than the fact that it is not in the ideal range. The general consensus seems to be that altering the pH of your water is more trouble than it is worth. So you should only alter the pH if it is absolutely necessary."

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personally, i would ditch all other products and use just prime and fresh water. it's my gut instinct and feel the sitution will improve. you should be able to order it online. i have been monitoring this thread, but chose to sit on the backbench and observe. i am sorry you lost a fish.

fish change, just like humans do. there are products that during stages in life can be tolerated and later not. perhaps it's time for a mild change, even if it's just the water conditioner/dechlorinator.

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Hi and thx, Yes the sudden change isn't good, its going from 7.4 to 8,and not 8 to 7.4 - i thought a downward swing would be worse than an upward swing.

I'm glad to hear that the tap pH is really 7.4, that's great. I understand that the tank pH experiences an upward swing, but it also goes through a downward swing after particularly large water changes. Adding lots of tap water with a lower pH will result in a downward swing, then eventually the pH will rise again (which is the upward swing you are referring to). Just something to think about.

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That's a good point about the test kit. I am tempted to just let them be now. They have had tons of treatments. Just keep an eye on them and try to do smaller and more frequent water changes. So the pH doesn't jump so much. Wait on the meds for the dropsy fish. Maybe it is just a reaction to the salt which will heal alone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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"Be aware that the importance of pH is often exaggerated. A stable pH is more important than maintaining it in the ideal range for Goldfish. The process of altering the pH of your tank is likely to stress the fish more than the fact that it is not in the ideal range. The general consensus seems to be that altering the pH of your water is more trouble than it is worth. So you should only alter the pH if it is absolutely necessary."

Hello. I'm sorry that these issues are still unresolved and that the orange one had succumbed :(

I can't help more with this situation, but I would like to comment on what you've read of the pH. It is absolutely true that maintaining a stable pH is more important than maintaining it in the ideal range for goldfish. The ideal pH range for goldfish is rather large, and goldfish can happily live anywhere in the range of 7-8.5. The key here is to keep the pH stable, and with that we are not attempting to change the pH, but rather we are attempting to keep pH from ever changing at all. In your specific case, it seems that your tap may contain gases that acidify the water, and once the tap water has been aerated (such as being in a tank with air wands etc), these gases are driven out, and thus bringing the pH up to 8. So, to prevent further stressing the fish from pH shifts, you can just limit your water changes at any given time to 50% or less, which would mean that your tank will not have to deal with pH swings (up or down) of more than 0.5. You already mentioned that you had hard water, so there is actually no need to add any chemicals or coral. :)

One question for you - I know that you've been trying PP and salt dips etc., but has the tank been salted the whole time as well?

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personally, i would ditch all other products and use just prime and fresh water. it's my gut instinct and feel the sitution will improve. you should be able to order it online. i have been monitoring this thread, but chose to sit on the backbench and observe. i am sorry you lost a fish.

fish change, just like humans do. there are products that during stages in life can be tolerated and later not. perhaps it's time for a mild change, even if it's just the water conditioner/dechlorinator.

I agree, neither they nor i can handle anymore.

Edited by coco
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Hi and thx, Yes the sudden change isn't good, its going from 7.4 to 8,and not 8 to 7.4 - i thought a downward swing would be worse than an upward swing.

I'm glad to hear that the tap pH is really 7.4, that's great. I understand that the tank pH experiences an upward swing, but it also goes through a downward swing after particularly large water changes. Adding lots of tap water with a lower pH will result in a downward swing, then eventually the pH will rise again (which is the upward swing you are referring to). Just something to think about.

oh the yo-yo effect, never thought of that.

That's a good point about the test kit. I am tempted to just let them be now. They have had tons of treatments. Just keep an eye on them and try to do smaller and more frequent water changes. So the pH doesn't jump so much. Wait on the meds for the dropsy fish. Maybe it is just a reaction to the salt which will heal alone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree

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"Be aware that the importance of pH is often exaggerated. A stable pH is more important than maintaining it in the ideal range for Goldfish. The process of altering the pH of your tank is likely to stress the fish more than the fact that it is not in the ideal range. The general consensus seems to be that altering the pH of your water is more trouble than it is worth. So you should only alter the pH if it is absolutely necessary."

Hello. I'm sorry that these issues are still unresolved and that the orange one had succumbed :(

I can't help more with this situation, but I would like to comment on what you've read of the pH. It is absolutely true that maintaining a stable pH is more important than maintaining it in the ideal range for goldfish. The ideal pH range for goldfish is rather large, and goldfish can happily live anywhere in the range of 7-8.5. The key here is to keep the pH stable, and with that we are not attempting to change the pH, but rather we are attempting to keep pH from ever changing at all. In your specific case, it seems that your tap may contain gases that acidify the water, and once the tap water has been aerated (such as being in a tank with air wands etc), these gases are driven out, and thus bringing the pH up to 8. So, to prevent further stressing the fish from pH shifts, you can just limit your water changes at any given time to 50% or less, which would mean that your tank will not have to deal with pH swings (up or down) of more than 0.5. You already mentioned that you had hard water, so there is actually no need to add any chemicals or coral. :)

One question for you - I know that you've been trying PP and salt dips etc., but has the tank been salted the whole time as well?

Agree

No it was never salted.Why? My OH added 0.03% (not 0.3%), and it was for 24hrs, but my 2x 90% water change took it out. I worry about the effect of salt on the filter beneficial bacteria, and like i said, in the past i have been guilty of ignorantly oversalting them, thinking it was for their protection against bacteria.

Between this mornings post and now reading your replys, i've been trying to figure out why they have been over slimeing and why the Ph.......

I may have had a eureka moment......

in the past 3 yrs i have them in a similiar size but different shape tank ( it was taller, and 1/5 of surface area ( to current one),warmer, and no oxygen wand, just surface agitation), which i read this morning such factors (heat,lower oxygen) helps to lower the ph.

In the last couple of weeks, i change the shape of their tank, ( longer & shallower tank, lots of surface area & lots of air wand and surface agitation), which i read this morning(colder and more oxygen)increases the PH.

Until this morning i thought the ph could only be chemically altered, not varied by other factors(heat&oxygen).

i guess they must have been adapting to the change.

We are in summer to autumm phase and its been freezing. I guess if i had had the heaters in all along, it wud not have mattered, but the old tank shape didn't need it. Darn it.

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That's a good point about the test kit. I am tempted to just let them be now. They have had tons of treatments. Just keep an eye on them and try to do smaller and more frequent water changes. So the pH doesn't jump so much. Wait on the meds for the dropsy fish. Maybe it is just a reaction to the salt which will heal alone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too late,,,, he just gave a couple of shivers, and past away...........

oh god will the 3yr old beardy make it before i leave ....

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Yesterday was horrible,

but today.........a little hope......

beardy is hanging in there, dorsal fin is up,

he had a thick blob of white on his wen, with a cotton bud i cleaned it out, and an empty gap in his wen but no infection,and instead of a salt dip, i did a combo of salt & raw garlic ( anti viral&fungi), and dabbed the gap, and all his moldy bits (just like that youtube clip earlier). The mold thing is actually recedeing today, faint watermarks of it.

he's lost his dark colour on the tips of his tail fin, but not rot etc still healthy but without the colour.

If he hangs on til i get back, i'm gonna rename him to rocky!

My combi-boiler is fixed today.....hot tap water!

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I'm sorry for your loss and all the craziness that insued. I found your topic because I think I may be starting to fight the same battle and was hoping you could shed some more insight. Plus I'd like to now how your other fishes are doing after the epic battle of November.

I unfortunatly went too long without a water change but something mysterious happened after adding the pothos plant and another plant I do not know the name of. The back wall, I had been allowing algea to grow trying to get that green wall look, well it was less green and more white. The new plants, less the pothos and more the unnamed plant (from the LFS) had grown these small white balls of what I imagine was a form of mold...?

I learned after the fact that when adding new plants, they should've be treated with bleach. D'oh!

The tail fin on the all-white shubunkin had lots of those white marks and all the calico shubunkins had maybe only one or two of the same marks. I haven't seen any issues with scales falling off. Only them flicking a little throughout the day, maybe every couple hours. No visible marks, scales, or bites. *visible* being the opperative word.

I just did a water change and yanked out most of the plants. I'll probably just take out the other ones as well. I've not done *ANY* treatments yet; besides the basic mineral salts and dechlorinator.

If you were to start over knowing what you do now, in my situation, and no other obvious problem, what would ya'll suggest? Mind you, the strange white mold looking stuff was scraped and currently the last is being filtered away. Another water change tomorrow will follow.

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