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Please help asap. Switching out new pump, filter problems.


DesigNerd

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Hiya. So my shubunkin 10 gallon tank (yes soon I'll update them to a bigger one) is cloudy. I made the mistake of not cycling the tank enough 3-4 weeks ago when putting them in there.

I did frequent water changes, 1-2x a week 30%-60% and just a couple days afterwards the water would be cloudy. I also was doing gravel cleaning. oops. I see that I cleaned too much now.

So 2 days ago the levels were this:

Ph: 7.0

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0.5

Nitrate: 160

Hardness: 180

Temp: 74 degrees F.

No water change. Cloudy. Pump at a trickle.

Today

Ph: 7.2

Ammonia: 0.25

Nitrite: 0.25

Nitrate: 80

Hardness: dunno, new testing kit doesn't have that.

Same mineral salt mixture and water conditioner. Standard recommended amounts.

No water change. Cloudy. Pump still at a trickle.

I just got back from the store with a brand new pump. My current one is about 3 years old, brand: Aqeuon 10.

New pump still in box is a AquaClear 30 with CycleGuard BioMax and I also bought AquaClear Ammonia remover filter insert for a 30.

Should I just yank out the old and stick in the new pump with it's new filters OR should I do something with the filters for the old bacteria???

Plus the new AquaClear pumps seem to be non-water resistant? The warnings in the label appear strange. Is it not a standard enclosed magnetic system?

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You will want to run both filters at the same time for at least a week (two is better) so that whatever cycle bacteria you had on the old filter can seed the new AC30. Don't use the ammonia remover. I don't think it will actually impede your cycle, but it doesn't help.

Please do two back to back water changes of 80% each time ASAP, provided that you match the temp and pH of the tank and the tap. You have detectable ammonia, fairly high levels of nitrite, and the beginnings of very high levels of nitrates. All of these combined aren't very good for the fish, so we want to get rid of them ASAP through the two back to back water changes. Then, once you finish the WCs, run the two filters, add more Nutrafin cycle. You can pour it directly over the media of the new AC30 :)

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Ah! Okay... I've got 4 fish in there. And I just set up the new filter and took pictures. Checking the time to see how long the water takes to clear. Um... I'll figure out how to get the old filter back on right now. brb.

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Okay I got both filters on and running. Also with the new AC I've also got an ammonia gravel system in it... I think I mentioned that. I want to wait an hour to do a partial WC and I'll check the chemistry immediately before & after that.

Thanks!

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hmmm on 2nd thought I'll take your advice and do the water changes right now. brb.

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Certainly, using a bigger tub is an excellent idea. Kukana, I saw where you were going when you asked for the number of fish, so I thought I would leave that suggestion to you, as that makes the most/best sense in this case :)

With the AC30 running along the old filter, you will have 250gph. So, it is certainly feasible to use a plastic tub to temporarily house the fish. Even if you move up to only a 29g tub, that will greatly help your fish, since more water means less longer time before the toxic ammonia and nitrites build up, along you to safely cycle :)

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How big are the four fish currently? Kukana's suggestion is a very important one because with 4 fish in a ten gallon, the amount of waste being produced is likely to be more than the single filter can handle, which would explain why you are still seeing ammonia & nitrites.

Do you have an idea of when you might me upgrading and what size tank you are planning on getting? With four single tails, that would require an 80 gallon tank or bigger to comfortably accommodate them for the entirety of their lives.

For the present, if you can get a clear plastic (Rubbermaid, for example) container to temporarily house your fish in, that would be great and will great relieve the space issue. It may not be very showy, but for the fish, it will be more than fine. Even if you get a 20 gallon tub, that's already doubling the water volume.

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I appreciate the idea of the tub but it would be on the floor and our cat would get them, he's really strong and already hates the fish with a passion. We'll be upgrading to either a 70 gallon or a 120 gallon in a few weeks.

So I've got both filters running now and did a 60% & 80% water change and waited about 30 minutes to test the water. It's looking much clearer.

Ph: 6.6

Ammonia: 0.25

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

Temp: 78f

The real test is what it'll be like in a few days. ;)

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You will want to check the parameters daily to make sure that ammonia/nitrites do not get above 0.5/0.25ppm, respectively. If and when they do, do a big water change immediately.

The other thing I am concerned about is the pH. At 6.6, it's too low. Goldfish do best at neutral or slightly basic pH. Also, you will want to have hard water to prevent a pH crash. Could you find out what the gH & kH of your tap water. Also, could you please check your tank ph tomorrow and post back?

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I'll post back often. I know the general hardness is pretty good. However I ran out of those strips and just bought a large testing kit (the drops) and it doesn't include hardness. Now that I finally have the drop tests instead of the insanely overprices strips I can check the water everyday.

Have no idea why the ph is so low. The color was between 6.6 & 6.8 so hopefully I only read that a little wrong.

Thank you for all your help and ideas.

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You can call the water utility and get the exact tap hardness. Also, you can get the API gH & kH kit, which is also a drop-based test, allowing you to measure hardness easily and cheaply. Lastly, you can bring the water to the LPS/LFS for them to measure hardness for you :)

Let's work on the pH issue alongside the tank cycling. We want to make sure that the pH is above 7 (closer to 8) and that it stays there :)

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So raising the ph... do I want to add a little bicarbonate soda?

Maybe we put in a tad too much water conditioner.

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What kind and how much conditioner did you use? Unless you overdose by a lot, I cannot see the conditioner depressing the pH down that much.

What is the pH out of tap? It may be that you already have low pH in the tap, so let's figure that out first before taking the next step.

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API tap water conditioner. I don't know how much he put in... said around 1mill but it's hard to get it exact.

I redid the tank ph: 7.0

Straight from the tap ph: 6.6

Perhaps earlier I read it wrong since the color difference is so slight.

I've also got a giant rose quart in the tank and rose quart pebbles with the pebbles and white sand. The tank looks less murkey.

As for the hardness, every test we've ever done for the last couple years shows around 180 so I'm guessing it's the same.

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My guess is that your tap has a lot of gases like carbon dioxide in it, consequently depressing the pH. After it comes out of the tap and being aerated, the gases get driven out and replaced by more oxygen, the tap pH then goes up. If I am right, then you didn't read the pH incorrectly earlier, but the rise from 6.6 to 7 is due to this effect. If that is the case, by tomorrow, your tank pH should rise even more. Would you please test the parameters tomorrow and post (including pH) so that we can see if this is the case and then come up with a suitable plan so that you can safely do WCs without subjecting your fish to crazy pH swings.

There is not so much to do now, as the pH is in the "safe" zone. If you have hard water, that would be excellent :)

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What type of aeration do you have in this tank any bubble stones connected to an air pump? Is it just the overhead from the pumps? Proper aeration helps bind H molecules and keep your pH stable. You can even use it to 'age' water before you put it in the tank at water changes.

What is your water change routine right now? (how much do you change and how often)

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Hun your in Portland right. Im in hillsboro :) I can tell ya you will need Buff it up or the other kind Alex uses (sorry cant remember). Our KH here is very low, meaning the ph will go down. The more it rains the more I see it go down :( I also keep a 1/2 cup of crushed coral in the tank to keep it stable. :thumb:

Also check your tap water too. Where I am I have .25 ammonia in the water, this will show up in the ammonia test up to 24 hours, then my tank consumes the ammonia. :thumb:

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What type of aeration do you have in this tank any bubble stones connected to an air pump? Is it just the overhead from the pumps? Proper aeration helps bind H molecules and keep your pH stable. You can even use it to 'age' water before you put it in the tank at water changes.

What is your water change routine right now? (how much do you change and how often)

I change the water 1-2x week about 60-80%. I don't understand about the water aging thing, could you please explain that to me more. I do however understand the air filtration and molecular bond of the oxygen atoms. As of last night this 10 gal tank now has 2 filters on it. The old aqeuon 10 pump with a polyfiber & carbon filter yet the motor was giving out (even after dismantling and cleaning it last week). So the new pump is a AquaClear 30 with an added ammonia buffer.

Koko, Thank you! You were totally right about the ammonia in the tap water. That's gross! Meck! I just tested it and it's .25pmm

So the tank this afternoon is as follows:

Ph: 7.2

Ammonia: >.25 it's between .25 and 0.

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 5

Temp: 74f

Very mild cloudiness.

Side note, the new pump isn't loud but the water crashing on the surface is. Woke me up from the other room. I changed the flow from + to - I guess that's max to min but it's still loud. I'll probably top the water off.

Thanks everyone for your help. :clapping:

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and your Ph will adjust too. I get buff it up from goldfishconnection.com , I would also see if you can go to the LFS and get some crushed coral. sometimes if you go to the mom and pop shops they will let you get a small amount and not the big bags of it. :thumb:

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What's LFS? I love the small shops. Usually I go to the Tropical Wet Spot down the road from me, they are on top of things there and always indulge me in my multitude of questions. I also checked out Family Pet up on Halsey, haven't talked to them really but I was impressed with how incredibly healthy their collection of fancies & shubunkins were with very little mutation problems.

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