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New Fish Came home sick


ypdmd

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Hi -

I just brought home 3 new fish, 2 of which seem to have some disease present. Unfortunately, I did not notice until I got home. The store is willing to take them back, but I was wondering if I could get a diagnosis and tx. options. I have not posted my tank ph etc, but these are new fish, so the water in my tank did not make them sick. Pretty sure the gold fantail has ick, but don't know what the black and gold telescope has.

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Welcome to Koko's. :) Those are some nice goldfish!

It is still a good idea to answer all the information above please. We can't advise treatment in a tank we know nothing about. :) Thanks!

Edited by Red
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  • * Water temperature?

Room temp - just added heater to 78

  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

30 Gal hex running 3 months

  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

Aquaclear 50 + undergravel

  • * How often do you change the water and how much?

not often

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
    N/A

  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?

7 feeders 1.5 to 2 inches long and three 2 inch fancy goldfish

  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Added coppersafe today

  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?

Tetra flakes 2x daily

  • * Any new fish added to the tank?

3 fancy goldfish

  • * Any medications added to the tank?

added coppersafe




I will try to get chemistry info tonight.

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OK. We have all been in your spot. We all had to learn that goldfish need specific conditions and care, tank size and good clean water to live their long (up to 10 years!) healthy lives.

Before you do anything else....your 30 gallon tank is majorly over stocked. At the very most you can keep 2 fancy goldfish in it. Also by your pics you have a lot of deep gravel. Under gravel filters are not good in a goldfish tank, and deep gravel is hard to keep clean. Goldfish are messy fish. You need to be doing at least a 50-75% water change EVERY week...this would be with just 2 fancy goldfish. As it is now you'll need them daily!! Size of fish is not important, fish produce ammonia through poop and through exchange through gills and skin.

I'd start by removing undergravel filter(Correction: your AC 50 is 300 200 GPH, add another AC 30 or 50 would be good too) UGF do not filter well enough for the HUGE waste load goldfish create, and will eventually cause more problems with junk building up under the plates . Also remove all gravel (bit by bit over a couple weeks), or at least only a thin 1/2 inch layer of gravel left. Do two 80% water changes to get Coppersafe out and get those fish fresh water.

Edit to ask...do you use a de-chlorinator? Most water needs it, even well water as it also neutralizes metals. Prime or AquaSafe are examples.

Oops, sorry, your AC 50 does 200 GPH, so you will need another AC 30 or 50 to provide adequate filtration. Goldfish need 10x the tank volume per hour. So 300 GPH at least for your tank.

Edited by Red
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I posted to this forum because I was looking for advice, and I certainly appreciate your feedback. I am surprised that I can only have 2 fish in a 30 gallon tank. The 7 feeders have lived in a 29 for about 2 years with no losses. (filtered with an old whisper 2 + AC20 all foam) I had no gravel and the water was crystal clear.

I guess I will set up the old tank and split the fish up.

The gravel is now only deep enough to cover the plate. If the UG is not effective I can try to remove it. (going to be a mess)

I usually dechlorinate by leaving the water stand, but I have used chemicals in the past.

BTW, any idea what is on the fin of that fish? Why should I get the coppersafe out?

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2 year old feeders (comets or commons actually) should be 8-12 inches long. :) If kept in large enough tank. Sadly, yours are now stunted. For single tail goldfish it is 20 gallons per fish minimum. They grow fast. Within one year a feeder should be 6-8 inches long with some good girth. For fancy/fantail, it is 20 gallons for first fish, 10 gallons for each additional. My fantail Boog grew from 1 1/2 inches to 6 inches in just under a year for example. He is in a 45G with 2 other goldfish (fantail & moore)

Edited by Red
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I would remove the coppersafe because we have no idea what you are treating yet. And if your params (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) are not perfect then meds can be toxic. With rare water changes I can guarantee your params are off.

Most fish ails can be treated with just pristine water and salt. :) Pristine does not mean clear. Water can be full of bad bacteria and ammonia, etc, but still look clean.

Edited by Red
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That looks like some water mold or fungus. You mean the white on the fin right? one of my fish gets it when he keeps his top fin out of the water too much. I think salt will solve that. As for the last picture, he just has a funky fin growth :) Nothing to worry about there.

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That looks like some water mold or fungus. You mean the white on the fin right? one of my fish gets it when he keeps his top fin out of the water too much. I think salt will solve that. As for the last picture, he just has a funky fin growth :) Nothing to worry about there.

The last 2 pics show the same spot on the same fish.

In the first two I was referring to the white spots on the tails

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2 year old feeders (comets or commons actually) should be 8-12 inches long. :) If kept in large enough tank. Sadly, yours are now stunted.

Now that they are stunted, is there anything to be done or are they always going to be like that? If that is the way they are going to be, I don't need to give them 20 gal. per fish, right?

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They are not necessarily permanently stunted...only in their current environment. I still think that you should consider the 20 gallon/single tail and 10 gallons/fancy stocking guideline. That guideline, along with 50% weekly WC, is designed to help promote heathy fish.

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They can benefit from the proper size tank and healthy weekly water changes, and may grow more, but maybe not to their full potential. Regardless of their size...quality of life will be better in a larger tank.

With proper sized tanks for your fish (7 comet/commons will need 150 gallon minimum, or separate into a couple tanks) and weekly 50-75% water changes, good filtration, eventually you will get a routine and it really isn't that much work.

Edited by Red
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ok - ph is high - 7.6

ammonia .25 mg/L

What method do you use for water changes? If you are changing huge amounts of water, doesn't that mess with you temp and chlorine?

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What method do you use for water changes? If you are changing huge amounts of water, doesn't that mess with you temp and chlorine?

I fill water straight from the tap, and adjust the level from my sink according to match the temp within 2 degrees. I'm not sure what you mean by messing with chlorine, but prior to adding back tap water, I add Prime, my dechlorinator of choice, into the tank in the amount enough for the entire tank volume. :)

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Awesome!! Keep us posted, and we are here to help. Oh, and we love pictures. *hint* :)

I seem to have a problem getting good shots again.

Looks like the tail spots are gone, but the dorsal fuzz is still there.

My ammonia is now 0.

The AC 70 is in and is blowing my fish away. Am I better off putting it on a lower setting or going back down to the 50?

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Any suggestions as to what the diseases are / were? That's kind of why I posted in the first place. The pet shop lady got in trouble with her boss when she told him the tank had ick. He said he didn't see any, and that something must have happened to my fish on the way home.

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Awesome!! Keep us posted, and we are here to help. Oh, and we love pictures. *hint* :)

Update: White spots on the fantail seem to be gone, whatever was on the telescope is spreading.

As you can see in the photos, the upper lesion on the dorsal fin goes right through the fin, and there is now a new one lower down.

There are also 2 white spots on the left tail fin and matching spots on the anal fins (as you can see in the bottom image)

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Awesome!! Keep us posted, and we are here to help. Oh, and we love pictures. *hint* :)

I seem to have a problem getting good shots again.

Looks like the tail spots are gone, but the dorsal fuzz is still there.

My ammonia is now 0.

The AC 70 is in and is blowing my fish away. Am I better off putting it on a lower setting or going back down to the 50?

You can baffle the output, by cutting the ends off a plastic soda bottle and slitting the middle so you now have a curl of plastic. Tape one end to the filter cover, letting the other end curl under the outflow lip.

Hard to tell what the white spots are. Please post the info again. Need all params not just ammonia.


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level
  • * Nitrite Level
  • * Nitrate level
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
  • * Water temperature?
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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sorry to hear that your fish aren't well.

what measures have you now taken to rectify the overstocking situation given that it's been 6 days since you initially posted? some great ideas were shared with you by other members re either splitting them into two tanks/tubs or rehoming a few. 30 gallons is really only enough space for two young to medium sized fancy goldfish and you have 10 goldfish in there. are the feeders single tails?

the tank has been established for 3 months i notice that you missed answering how often you change the water (please post what your maintenance routine for the 30 gallon is)

i take it the undergravel filter is gone now? in order to create space, you should look at removing the gravel also. all it does is trap nasty bacteria from fish waste and uneaten food. when you do a water change, do you siphon the gravel also?

PH in tank is great at 7.6.. from tap at 7.2 is not bad either. but what happens is when you add the 7.2 to the 7.6, it brings the PH in the tank lower for a bit until everything adjusts. at the moment, when you do a 50-70% water change, it will drop by a few points, which is ok. but if it dropped by more than that, it could harm the fish. everytime you do a water change, you will need to test both ph from tap and tank to ensure things do not become unstable. this can also create a PH crash (something you don't want)

coppersafe is not the best product to use. i recommend from personal experience particularly if ever the slightest bit of ammonia present (which you showed earlier) Seachem Prime. it does so much more than just dechlorinate water and bind Ammonia. have a read of this information on the product and decide for yourself http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Prime.html

now.. you are maninaining a temperature of 78F in the tank. that's great, fancy goldfish like warmer temps. but what about aeration and surface agitation? do you have airwands or stone discs installed in there? at 78F it's pretty warm and the air in the water dissolves pretty quickly. you need to replace the air that the heat is removing. in order to accomplish this, you need either bubble wands or stone discs positioned where the fish will most likely benefit from them.

i believe that the problems with your fish is mostly coming from the water quality (even though you mention that the fish are new, i get this, but pristine water would have prevented this or made it better already). i believe that you were not given correct information from the LFS and you have unintentionally taken a few bad steps as we all did. don't feel bad, we're here to help you correct your set up so that your fish can recover and thrive :)

i also believe that daily water changes of 80% will assist in these problems going, but if you don't take action to give your fish the room they require, everything will keep returning.

here is a pic i saw from your initial post and i ask, do you have a live frog in there? i see a reflection and am not sure if it's a live frog or ornament, but it definately looks like it's in the tank:

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