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Guest whotookmyusername

Ich->fin Rot? Is This Normal?

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Guest whotookmyusername


  • Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level= between .02 and .05 ppm
  • * Nitrite Level= 0
  • * Nitrate level= between 0 and 20 ppm
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)= pH 7.0, KH 0to 40, GH 180 don't know how to measure chloramines
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)= about the same
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Aquarium Pharm 5 in 1 strips
  • * Water temperature? 78F
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 gal. 4 years
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 Whisper HOB's 30-55 gallon
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Lately? 25% change daily. Usually? 10% once a week.

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 2 hours ago. 25% every day for the last 7 or 8 days.
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 Goldies (was 4) all about 2 inches long without fins and no more than an inch wide each (1 Ryukin, 2 Orandas)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Nova Aqua and AmQuel every change. Lately added Nutrafin Cycle to the tank and changes. Suspect cycle has crashed with meds or with the constant water changes. The changes seem to keep the ammonia at bay.
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Omega small GF pellets, sometimes flakes, and once in a while dried Hykari treats (I'm rushing, hope I'm not butchering the spellings too badly)
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? Yes. One black moor. He didn't make it. (No quarantine. I really, really regret this. I know better.)
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Every 24 hours for the first 4 days. Every 12 hours for the last 3 days. Fish are only getting worse.
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Gave the worst looking 2 fish their first 3 min salt bath today 1 tsp per gallon. Both still covered with parasites. No big changes in behaviors. Wonder if I did it wrong. Otherwise, just the Rid-Ich. Plus heat. I slowly heated the tank to between 78 and 80 degrees F. 80 made them more lethargic, so I've left it at 78 and they seem to do okay.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • Absolutely grains of salt. My two Orandas are covered head to tow. The Ryukin doesn't seem to have any visible.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? One Oranda and the Ryukin are almost exclusively hanging out on the bottom of the tank. The other Oranda is kind of bobbling along at the top. All become active when I feed them.

Not sure if this qualifies for the 911 section, but I may copy and repost this there. I have done two really stupid things in the last week. First, I added a fish without quarantine. Big stupid. Second, I missed one of the Ich treatments on the fourth day. Instead of a repeated dose after 24 hours, they got one after 32. That was the day where a couple of salty spots multiplied into three covered fish out of four. The black moor passed after only another 24 hours. Since then, I've been treating every twelve hours. Other than the salt baths I gave two of them today, I've been sticking to just the one med and heat. I've also been covering the tank for the last few days. I read that the meds get less effective with light. When I uncovered the tank today, I noticed that 1/2 of one of my Oranda's fins were gone, and what was left was all tattered. Also, what's left of his tail is tattered and red streaked. Perhaps the red streaks are a result of the crashed cycle, but half of his once beautiful tail fins are gone! It's turned into a horror show in there. I special ordered some medigold a few days ago. It should be here tomorrow. I figured I'd use that. Otherwise, is this Ich? I'll post a pic. Is it finrot too? Septicimia? Are they too far gone? Here's the pics

A18bk.jpg

P9Lt5.jpg

HNLbQ.jpg

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I would recommend upping your water changes from 25% daily to at least 50% or more. Preferably 75-80% since your cycling the tank again, and trying to get rid of ich. :unsure:

Also, you need to make sure when you do water changes to be vacuuming/cleaning the bottom of the tank really well.

It's good that you've brought the temps up and that you're covering the tank.

Do you happen to know the water turnover rate of your filters or the model name?

If it's the Whisper Power Filter 30, even with 2 filters, the tank is under filtered.

Edited by Tinkokeshi

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Absolutely agree on what Tinko says above. Crucial!!

But this is a very, very severe case of ich and the meds are killing your fish..pushing them over the edge. You need to get the meds out they are not working.

Go with salt it is sooo much gentler. The ich cysts have joined up and this makes the parasites even stronger. Your fish need to be in the dark at a steady temp with massive aeration and immediate 0.3% salt in totally ammonia free water.

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Guest whotookmyusername

Oh, I am so grateful for the quick replies. Should I do a big water change immediately? How quickly should I start salting the tank after the meds are gone? Also, should I employ the medicated food (won't be here until tomorrow). And, will the salt help with the fins problem? Am I dealing with multiple things at once. Will the salt alone address all things going on in the tank?

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Yes, the salt at 0.3% (see link in my sig for more on dosing) will deal with everything here I think. Basically you need to stop the ich fast and the rest of the healing will follow. Salt helps with healing. BUT it must be in ammonia free water.

You can start and should start NOW. As soon as the water is completely med free (that means a full water change). Start with 0.2%..that is 110 teaspoons of salt...a lot. Dissolved first in a cup of de-chlorinated water.

How stable is pH and temp now?

Are they still eating well? What med food do you have there?

You are going to have to monitor your water for ammonia/nitrites very frequently dealing with ich in a cycle crashed tank. (Yes, the meds will have crashed your cycle.)

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Salt is the best disinfectant and overall baddy killer. 0.3% like they said has always worked for me. As for the fins, They Appeared like that overnight? is one of your fish still active? If it is they will chew up sick fish that don't move much. If there is a stronger fish see if you can somehow seperate it. That should help the fin situation.

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In case you want something easier than 110 teaspoons, that's about 37 TABLEspoons. If you want to be precise, It's 36 TABLEspoons and 2 TEAspoons.

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In case you want something easier than 110 teaspoons, that's about 37 TABLEspoons. If you want to be precise, It's 36 TABLEspoons and 2 TEAspoons.

Thanks Tinko!! Much quicker & easier in tablespoon measures.

How are your fish whotookmyusername ?

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Guest whotookmyusername

Hello everyone! Good news! All three fish are alive! It still looks pretty dismal in there, but I think progress is being made. I suspected the same about the stronger fish picking apart Brutus's fins, so I picked up a tank divider. Did an 80% water change and put the carbon back in. Salted the tank using 37 Tablespoons and 2 teaspoons. They seem to be responding well. pH and temp are stable. They are eating. The Medi-Gold hasn't arrived yet and I'm still unsure if I should use it. I think the salt that is in the tank now is at .02% yes? Am I supposed to wait a day and up the salt? And again, thank you guys so much for your help. I'm off to work!

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Guest whotookmyusername

Looking back through, I realize I put an extra tablespoon of salt in there. Whoops. Thank you so much for the calculations and conversions! I also saw it's at .2% not .02, and that I can just cut in half the tablespoons and get that last percent in there tomorrow. (?) Last, massive aeration: how do I get this done? Bubble wands? Bigger filters?

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For the extra aeration, you could do a couple of things. You could add more bubble stones/wands, and you could also lower the water level in the tank by about 1/2 to 1 inch, thereby allowing more of a splash when the water exits your filter(s) :)

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