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gfish605

Fancytail Has Both Ich And I Think Swim Bladder Disorder

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[]Test Results for the Following:

[.25]Ammonia Level?

[0]Nitrite Level?

[5.0]Nitrate level?

[7.4]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[8.0]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[Api Freshwater Master Test Kit]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[72.8]Water temperature?

[36 gallons]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[Penguin Bio Wheel 150 and Aquaclear 70]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

[every other day, am treating for ich]How often do you change the water and how much?

[yesterday]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

[4: 1 black moor 1/4 inch, 2 commets, 1 inch, 1 fantail, 1/2 inch ]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[Prime, microbe-lift: Nite-Out II]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[started out with Wardley Golfish slow sinking Crumbles every other day, last two days, i fed them 2 x's a day, very sparingly. I fed them this morning and tonite i just gave them Hikari Krill. Oh and like three to 4 days ago i gave them a little shredded carrots. (I hope i didn't over feed them)What do you feed your fish and how often?

[NO]Any new fish added to the tank?

[API Aquarium Salt, but added kosher salt last night since i had to run to the store today to buy some more.]Any medications added to the tank?

[i added the salt when after I purchased the fantail started seeing ich. I have been treating her with salt and water changes for the last three to 4 days]List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank.

Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

[no, but i noticed that the ich started disappearing. I noticed a little reddish color around the gills around the other fish last night, but now it's reduced. my black moore has a little pinkish around her gills]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[she was swimming fine but started resting at the bottom corners of the tank every once in a while. She then developed a lot of ich and started resting even more and then when i thought she was dead, she sprang up and started swimming again. Sometimes I would find her on a plant lying on her side and then start swimming. But now it's pretty bad, she is on her side and is trying to keep alive so she looks like she is dead but she always floating around on her side. She started hiding in a little cave i bought as decor and hung out in there for hours. She ate this morning but she didn't eat tonite.]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Hi all,

It's me again. I know, as a new goldfish owner, i have gotten carried away with lots of stuff and now i am really learning the hard way but...anyway, i have new fish since the last batch of commons and commets died, due to inappropriately waiting for my water to finish cycling.

I have been cycling my new tank since July. I bought a two small commons two weeks ago, and bought two more fish (a black moor and fancy tail last week - 7 days exactly). Well, everybody is fine except for the fancy tail.

She started getting ich this past weekend with ich. I noticed she was all by herself in petco, and couldn't resist. Plus the sales guy gave me a discount. WHAT A MISTAKE. any way, by the next day, i saw she started getting the white spots, and knew it was ick. in fact, i saw it on the other fish in the different tanks in the store. but, anyway, my bad. I immediately researched in the internet and thanks to some folks here like Lynda and Ashlee gave good advice. So i took out the gravel. I kept the tank bare bottom cleaned the plants and decorations took cleaned everything with part bleach and water. Then I rinsed everything and placed in water with prime in bucket to sit before I put it back into the tank. Did a major water change, i took out half of the water and put some new water in. I conditioned it and put in Nite Out II. I started using the API Aquarium salt.

The salt in the water is confusing to me, i at first put in i would say 1 teaspon per gallon? i think. I don't remember, but I did put in like two teaspons. then the guy at the store said to put in at least 1 cup for the whole tank?! I was like wow, are you sure? so i did, i did 29 teaspoons for the entire tank. then i started doing 25% water changes every other day with 2 teaspoons for 1 gallon. I read it somewhere. anyway, and I did a 9 gallon change. I have no idea what i am doing. someone needs to help me with this, i really feel super confuse from all the threads i have read on here and everywhere on the internet.

okay, so the ich started coming off the fantail, and i noticed that she started resting more and more on the bottom of the tank. she wasn't doing the side thing yet. she just went into her little cave for a couple hours then swim around. but starting today, she has full fledge started lying on her side. she floats around and gets caught up in the decorations or plants. I found her near the filter, had to unglue her from there.

I freak out everytime i see her, she looks like she is dead. and then all of a sudden she starts swimming like nothing. then she starts laying on her side. I noticed it has gotten worse tonight.

Anyhow, so i am thinking, i wonder if she is going to die tonight, should i risk myself to buying tomorrow a quarantine tank? I should have one anyway. she is really trying to live and loves being around the other fish. she comes to life when i feed the other fish or when the other fish are swimming around. i wonder if she is gonna get depressed after i separate her and quarantine. i wonder if she will make it anyway.

Haven said all this, I need to know what the proper way to do a quarantine. I have looked at all the posts and threads but i don't get the part about taking the filter with bacteria and somehow placing it on the new aquarium? and second, what should i really do with her? the other three fishes are fine, so far. i noticed the black moor, had a little bit reddish pink on the bottom of her gills?

I also read somewhere on here that if this is swim bladder disorder, sometimes fancy tails are sensitive to high nitrates and this could be the cause of her disorder.

I don't have a heck of a lot of money and too much time to do all the stuff i need to do. but i am really trying to do the best i can do with this situation. good suggestions are REALLY APPRECIATED.

Thanks Much,

GFISH605

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A few things here. You probably already know that you are overstocked. The two commons alone would be a tight squeeze in your tank. You may need to consider rehoming some fish or upgrading. It is really better to keep commons seperate from fancy fish. They are stronger and can outcompete for food. Some people have them live together just fine, but in general it is best to keep them seperate. Keep in mind that those commons may grow a foot long a peice. Something to think about.

It sounds like your poor little fish isn't well and is getting knocked about a bit. A cheap option right now would be to keep her in floating plastic colander in the main tank. It will keep her safe from the filters, but in the main tank which you need to treat for the ich as well. You do need a QT tank, but I understand if you want to make that a purchase down the road.

I think you will want to start over on your salting. You will want to get a notebook so you can keep track of it. I would suggest doing a 90% water change, add conditioned water back to about the halfway level of the tank, then empty that again leaving enough water to cover the fish's backs and then fill the tank back up with conditioned water. Then you want to add 36 teaspoons of salt. Make sure it is dissolved well. In twelve hours add another thirty six teaspoons of salt. The next twelve hours add thirty six teaspoons of salt. That gives you three teaspoons of salt per gallon making it .3% salinity.

Every few days do a 50% water change (vaccumm well) and add fifty percent of the salt back in which is 54 teaspoons. Just keep track of your math which is why the notebook comes in handy.

I hope this helps.

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Hi Amy,

I am going to get a small gallon tank. i think I am going to have another quarantine gallon tank for them. How do i start a small 20 gallon tank? or can i use a 10 gallon tank? i read about getting fresh water and using some of the filter bacteria?

what would you suggest?

do you anything about how to heal the swim bladder disease?

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thanks amy!!!

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I think the problem here may not be swim bladder related. Just recently a few of my fish turned pink, especially around the gills. The problem ended up being ammonia. I think once you get the ammonia down to 0 that will help a lot. Plus salting a tank with ammonia present makes ammonia that much more toxic. Does your water conditioner bind ammonia into a non-toxic form? If not, I would suggest prime. Also, did you make sure that your kosher salt is 100% salt? Where I live, kosher salt has additives so we use morton's canning and pickiling salt.

Other than that, I agree with Amy's method.

As for qt, I would get a 20 gallon. The larger the better. Make sure you get a filter that does 200 gph. Or if you will be removing one of your filters, purchase one to take its place. Using a cycled filter is very helpful in qt. You just remove the filter and add it to your qt. Make sure your qt water is temp and ph matched so as not to shock your bb. Also, condition the water.

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Hi Ashlee and Amy,

My small fantail died and now the other three started getting the white spots on them, of course ick. I am a little worried now. I need to leave to go to work.

The salt i added was Morton's but now i have the API Salt for aquarium. I hope to try to save the rest. I read that you are not suppose to feed the fish for three days? is that correct? since goldfish are always hungry wouldn't that make them even go quicker?

i need all the advice i can get.

I will do what Amy said about the salt and water changes when i get home and keep a fish notebook. i'm just wondering if they will be able to live. THEY DIDN'T HAVE NO SPOTS UNTIL TODAY.

Thanks Guys. :cry1

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I think the problem here may not be swim bladder related. Just recently a few of my fish turned pink, especially around the gills. The problem ended up being ammonia. I think once you get the ammonia down to 0 that will help a lot. Plus salting a tank with ammonia present makes ammonia that much more toxic. Does your water conditioner bind ammonia into a non-toxic form? If not, I would suggest prime. Also, did you make sure that your kosher salt is 100% salt? Where I live, kosher salt has additives so we use morton's canning and pickiling salt.

Other than that, I agree with Amy's method.

As for qt, I would get a 20 gallon. The larger the better. Make sure you get a filter that does 200 gph. Or if you will be removing one of your filters, purchase one to take its place. Using a cycled filter is very helpful in qt. You just remove the filter and add it to your qt. Make sure your qt water is temp and ph matched so as not to shock your bb. Also, condition the water.

thanks for the tips. i have one that has been in my tank since July and the other one I purchased about 2 and a half weeks ago. Should I use the newer one? or the older one?

THanks!

i do use prime. i wondered if it was the plants doing the ammonia situation. I have them potted in gravel.

do i quarantine them all out of the tank? and clean the entire tank? thanks!

Edited by gfish605

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Thanks AShlee!!!

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I'm sorry you lost your fish. At this point you can QT them all together in the main tank as they all have ich. I am betting there was something in your morton's, so the first key is get that old salt out of there. Two big back to back water changes. Then you can use the API salt. Just make sure to dissolve it well. The plants weren't causing the ammonia....that is what happens in an overstocked newly cycled tank. That is why you need to keep up with your water changes. What kind of plants do you have? You may want to keep an eye on them while salting. Some plants don't hold up to salt well. Hang in there!

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hi Amy, i re-read the directions. I did buy a small quarantine tank. When I went over the directions. I got confused on your 3rd step.

Okay, so this is what i understood.

1. do a 90% water change.

2. add conditioned water back to tank until 1/2 full.

3. Empty the tank?? this is the part I don't understand.

4. fill up with conditioned water all over again?? also wondering..

5. add 36 teaspons of APi Salt well dissolved.

6. do this 12 hours later. add 36 teaspoons.(assuming it's for a 36 gallon tank)

7. every few days do a 50% water change.

8. do another water change with 54 teaspons?

anyhow, i went to the petco again. i got a small 10 gallon. i know. it's all i could afford for now. i did get a small heater to warm up the water to 80 degrees. i read on here that it helps kill the disease. also i read not to feed the fish for three days. okay, so please answer my question above. thank you SO MUCH.

GFISH605 :unsure:

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You really want to treat them all in the main tank right now. The small size of the QT will stress them more and allow ammonia to build up, plus this salt plan is for your 36 gallon. Ich is a parasite that is now in the main tank as well. The reason for doing a water change, refilling, then emptying again is to get all of the old salt out. An easier way to explain it is two back to back fifty percent water changes. You want all of that old salt completley gone so that you can start from scratch.

Then add the 36 tsps. of dissolved API salt. You can also raise your heat slowly.

After twelve hours add 36 more tsps. of dissolved API salt.

After another twelve hours add 36 more tsps. of dissolved API salt.

Then every day you will want to carefully test your water. If you read ammonia then you will want to do a 50% water change and add back 54 tsps of salt (replenishing the half you removed). Vacuum really well. If you aren't showing ammonia techincally you can do a weekly 50% water change, but I personally like to do it every three days or so to vacuum up any hatching parasites.

The only reason I fast my fish for three days and follow by three days of peas are if there are constipation issues. If there aren't and they are young fish I wouldn't not feed them.

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any updates on your fish?

can you post current water params if the problem is still occuring?

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Hi Stakos, the fancy tail died. But the two little 3 inch commons have survived everything so far. I bought some Malachite green for ich. Everything is good so far.

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In that case, as it is no longer an emergency I'll move this thread over to discussion/diagnosis where you can continue with anything else that comes up in this same thread. I am very sorry 2 of your fish didn't make it and wish the best for the remainder two. Don't forget malachite removes around 50% of dissolved oxygen from the waterso you do need to double bubbles when using that one :)

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