Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Acro

Oranda's Wen Looks Unhealthy

Recommended Posts

I will stop here, as you clearly have chosen a side. I don't believe a member of the mod team should have done that, and I am very disappointed, especially now that Martha has decided to attack me.

Martha, I don't believe I throw Ken's name around. Also, would you please compile some evidence about this shortening of lives that you are talking about? I would love to learn more about this.

I also don't believe that you have any rights to say that anyone puts anyone's pets in jeopardy. Last I checked, there is a mod team, and they do patrol the boards. Please correct me where/when I am wrong or when you disagree with me please say so. Otherwise, kindly refrain from making such derogatory statements. It ill becomes you when you make these attacks on people. Thanks.

I have stated more than once that I simply asked for an explanation, since Martha's post seems to dismiss a treatment plan without much reason behind it.

In any case, many apologies to the OP. My intentions have always been to give you a range of choices and the reasons behind them. Best of luck with treatment. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

alex,

no-one has chosen sides, and it's sad that you see it that way.. had martha recommended PP and HP baths, i would have decided against her here.

fact is, and it is known that this treatment as martha has said and it's been said before in threads that yes, it does shorten the life of fish. this adivice when "giving all the options" to the OP is serious enough to be mentioned. ie, when you get a presecription from your doctor, and you go fill it at the drug store, you also get a "facts" sheet...

that important "fact" was missing from this thread..

may i also remind you that a 6 page 911 thread, a valualble piece of advice was missing from ALL members experienced and non expierienced who had contributed, the simple fact to remind the OP that salt needed diluting..

i atleast brought this to your attention and others involved via PM as to not finger point.. and i chose not to be active in it for obvious reasons.

it appears that finger pointing is plenty with a few memebers and i call for it to stop.. it is unecessary and useless to these particular forums..

i guess what i am saying is that if anyone is unhappy about someone's posting, it should be mentioned to them behind the scenes rather than on the forums. let this be a wake up call to all.. we have a PM system and venting should be done there. and if needed, reported to admin.

these forums are becoming an eye sore with behavioural issue posts and it must stop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love you guys, your so smart and you make me laugh!

So I went to two pet stores tonight and they didnt have the nitrate test kit (Really?!?!?). I will have to hit a few other pet stores and pick it up in the morning.

Right now, I am going to do a big water change, maybe around 70%.

I picked up the "Morton canning & Pickiling salt" and Kosher Salt (not sure why both, but if I dont use it, I can cook with it). I will add that to the water after the WC. This should be fine mixing with the Aquarium Salt that is already in the tank right?

And thats the plan for right now. Keeping the water changes up and the salt.

So the long term plan is: first the salt for a week, maybe two or three. If that does not work, then plan "B" is the medicated food. Then plant "C" is the HP (but that freaks me out, ever have that in your mouth? Its like all "FIZZZZZZZ" can't imagine putting my fish in a bath of that! But if it will help, I am all for it.

Please let me know if that sounds good and if you can think of anything else. Also, has anyone seen this before? amynmitchell, is this what your fish had, or something like it?

Krang and I thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes., salt 0.1% 12 hours later again, and 12 hours later again.. so that you are adding 3 x 0.1% in 12 hour intervalls..

you can have the fish in that for the next 2 weeks and begin to see some improvement. if no improvement, then plan be.. but everything must be taken in slow easy steps, ok?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I was typing my post and when I finished, there was like 4 new posts written that I didnt even read! So now Hydro-Perox can shorten a lifespan? Wait, dont respond to that, if salt and med-food dont work, we can get to that issue later.

Thank you all for the help, however this negative talk is making Krang sad. And as we all know, it is difficult to help a sad fish get well. However happy fish heal faster, so please lets keep this happy and help Krang have a healthy head!

Much love all, Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love you guys, your so smart and you make me laugh!

So I went to two pet stores tonight and they didnt have the nitrate test kit (Really?!?!?). I will have to hit a few other pet stores and pick it up in the morning.

Right now, I am going to do a big water change, maybe around 70%.

I picked up the "Morton canning & Pickiling salt" and Kosher Salt (not sure why both, but if I dont use it, I can cook with it). I will add that to the water after the WC. This should be fine mixing with the Aquarium Salt that is already in the tank right?

And thats the plan for right now. Keeping the water changes up and the salt.

So the long term plan is: first the salt for a week, maybe two or three. If that does not work, then plan "B" is the medicated food. Then plant "C" is the HP (but that freaks me out, ever have that in your mouth? Its like all "FIZZZZZZZ" can't imagine putting my fish in a bath of that! But if it will help, I am all for it.

Please let me know if that sounds good and if you can think of anything else. Also, has anyone seen this before? amynmitchell, is this what your fish had, or something like it?

Krang and I thank you!

Hi, Acro, thanks for your understanding. While you are shopping for a nitrate kit, may be you can bring a water sample to the LFS for them to test? Most will do it for free, so at least you'll have a result right away. :)

I've used Aquarium salt and then added the Morton's Canning & Picking Salt before when I ran out of Aquarium salt. There were no ill effects, but I didn't anticipate any, as both are pure sodium chloride without additives or anti-caking agent. The only difference is the size of the salt crystal. Make sure that you do dissolve the salt before you add to the tank, as I've indicated before.

Best of wishes to Krang, and please update us. Hopefully, the salt and good clean water will be all he needs to heal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks very similiar, though my fish's wen is red, so I can't see if there is coloring beneath it. It looks dry and cracked if that makes sense. When there is an issue in a tank (water quality, dirty gravel, or the like) often you will see it in the wen first. It is the easiest tissue to start to get affected. And I find my white fish shows me first if something is off in the tank. I really think you will find that this clears up easily for you with better routine maintance and salt.

Remember, to only raise the salt .1% at a time, to make sure it is disolved and not pour it directly over your fish. I do think considering removing gravel slowly over time is a good plan and remember to clean your filters regularly.

On the other stuff, my feelings are not hurt in any way that folks disagreed with me on the HP bath. I was only explaining what has helped in my case and to be honest very little has helped, including metromeds. This looks very simliar with the slightly sunken in look to the wen and face and the tear in the fins. I appreciate that everyone is offering their opinions and advice. But this thread has taken an ugly turn...I'm not even sure how it did that. That isn't the koko's spirit...it is about offering kindness, advice, and personal experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So 3 days to get to the full salt level, I can do that, and I can do the "slow easy steps" for sure. When people get all freaked out, thats when mistakes happen. Ive been there.

Nah, I wont trust the pet shop people with testing my water. Ive seen them do so many dumb mistakes before. This one time, I remember seeing a guy dump the tested water (with all its chemicals) right back into the fish tank!!!

Yeah I dissolve the salt, I normally put it into one of those plastic floating "breeders", near the filter's outflow. It goes out all shimmering, looks so cool yet scary at the same time (scary that it is now in the tank water!) .

amynmitchell, Do you have any pics (or a link to them) of your fish's wen? How is the fish now? "Dry and cracked" totally makes sence, goes along exactly with my "chapped" discription. As for the gravel, It really is just enough to cover the bottom glass, if you look at the pictures, you can see a few spots where the aquarium glass is uncovered, not really any place for nasties to build up.

But yes, I am now off to help my Krang fishy! I'll update tomorrow!

Thanks again everyone!!!!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no, not 3 days.. 3 x 12 hour intervals.. so every 12 hours, you are adding 0.1% salt which is 1 level TEAspoon per gallon until you do this 3 times and stop there.

and please remember to make a huge preferably 100% water change now to start with as clean as possible water..

also, when you are making waterchanges after this first one, you need to be replacing the salt that you removed with the old water to maintain the 0.3% salt.

does this make sense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wanted to chime in real quick. A while back I called Mortons about their canning and pickling salt since I was having problems salting. I talked to a guy that actually knew about fish keeping and he pointed out that using 1 teaspoon of the c&p salt is more than 1 teaspoon of AQUARIUM salt. He helped me calculate be weight that one teaspoon AQUARIUM salt is equal to 3/4 teaspoon c&p. So the problem I was having was that I was overdosing my tanks. So I ended up adding more than 13 extra teaspoons when salting. Times that by 3 and I had my tank at over 33 teaspoons too much.

So please keep in mind, 3/4 teaspoons per gallon if you are using the canning and pickling salt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wanted to chime in real quick. A while back I called Mortons about their canning and pickling salt since I was having problems salting. I talked to a guy that actually knew about fish keeping and he pointed out that using 1 teaspoon of the c&p salt is more than 1 teaspoon of AQUARIUM salt. He helped me calculate be weight that one teaspoon AQUARIUM salt is equal to 3/4 teaspoon c&p. So the problem I was having was that I was overdosing my tanks. So I ended up adding more than 13 extra teaspoons when salting. Times that by 3 and I had my tank at over 33 teaspoons too much.

So please keep in mind, 3/4 teaspoons per gallon if you are using the canning and pickling salt.

:goodpost

Thanks for pointing that out, Ashlee. Because salt is so often used as a first defense treatment after clean water, but because too much salt can be detrimental as you pointed out, I no longer use teaspoons/tablespoons for salt. Instead, I weigh it out to ensure accuracy.

However, I will keep this in mind in future suggestions of Morton's to use 3/4 teaspoons only per recommended teaspoon. Thanks again for this important info.

Acro, when you see this, would you please let us know how much of which salt you've added to your tank and where you are at in terms of the salt percentage? If you want someone to double check numbers with you, I'm happy to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amy, do you mean 1 part hp and 10 parts water? Not 1 and 1?

Thank you so much for catching that...that would have been incredibly dangerous. I changed it on my post as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For whatever reason my phone won't let me get to the next page but I wanted to point out to OP to check out the medication sticky. Salt is mentioned and it says which ones are safest. Ones I know you DO NOT want are salts with iodine or anti caking agents in them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just wanted to chime in real quick. A while back I called Mortons about their canning and pickling salt since I was having problems salting. I talked to a guy that actually knew about fish keeping and he pointed out that using 1 teaspoon of the c&p salt is more than 1 teaspoon of AQUARIUM salt. He helped me calculate be weight that one teaspoon AQUARIUM salt is equal to 3/4 teaspoon c&p. So the problem I was having was that I was overdosing my tanks. So I ended up adding more than 13 extra teaspoons when salting. Times that by 3 and I had my tank at over 33 teaspoons too much.

So please keep in mind, 3/4 teaspoons per gallon if you are using the canning and pickling salt.

^^ This is nice to know because I recently bought some of the canning/pickling salt :D ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am so glad you decided on more water changes and salt.

However I must point out that color change is normal. Some goldfish just have odd shaped wens.

Give the extra weekly water changes and salt a few weeks to work. Also keep an eye on the poo and eating habits. (I am sure you do.)

I would not use an HP dip unless the fish is floating, not eating or has open soars and even then I think I would just swab the spots.

Good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First I want to say Acro, you're great

You've been very understanding through this and I think you're doing a wonderful job! :goodjob The course of action you've decided on is great. Start with precaution for now (water changes, salt) and then change if things get worse - which hopefully they don't, but if they do we can take it from there.

As for the HP (I'll be brief, I promise!), IMO it's most useful as a fungicide and to clean external wounds. I personally wouldn't use a dip unless I was dealing with a fungus or a lot of open sores, something like that. Research has shown the sensitivity of the fish to HP tends to vary a lot with things like species, temperature and body size/condition. Gill damage is very legitimate concern, but it's unlikely at low concentrations. Like any other chemical or medication, as has already been pointed out, it can have a downside. I think the approach you are taking right now is best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are all family here and I know that sometimes we cant all agree on things. I understand we all have ways of helping each other, but getting into to fights doesn't help each other.

Sorry for this interruption guys!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, I took a two-month break from Koko's due to work, and I have to say it's changed a bit. I'm noticing that a few new people who accumulated vast numbers of posts over a very short period of time are throwing out some pretty heavy-handed advice. Now, if they're longtime goldfish keepers with many years of experience behind them (which many of the members here ARE), then that's one thing. But anyone who's relatively new to the hobby (and by that, I mean keeping goldfish, not just aquariums, fewer than a few years, minimum) is advising on health, medication, and procedures, that makes me nervous. HP dips ARE serious, and Amy had a very good reason for doing them and is an experienced fishkeeper. But if you haven't done one yourself, and seen what kind of impact (positive or negative) it had on your fish, IMHO you shouldn't be recommending it as a treatment to others, especially not as casually as I'm seeing it done in this thread.

I also don't believe that you have any rights to say that anyone puts anyone's pets in jeopardy. Last I checked, there is a mod team, and they do patrol the boards.

They do. But I don't think that means that advice about serious matters should be given lightly, or by inexperienced people, with the hope that a mod will come by and correct any really egregious errors. Better to learn first, get experience, and THEN give advice.

Not meant to be a personal attack on one individual. But seeing all the teaching/preaching/advice given on here lately by new members or less experienced folks is making me uncomfortable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Acro, just wanted to ask, how did you go with salting? and did you manage to find a NitrAte kit?

also, salt can be pretty quick in the begining stages of healing, have you noticed any difference now either in shape or colour of the wen?

just a thought as i have read through this thread multiple times and referred to a few books i have here. is it possible that the fish is going through a growth spurt and the wen is just uneaven atm? i do notice that the whitish film on the wen is pretty much consistent all over it but stops at the wen..

salting will not affect a growth spurt, and it will be interesting to see if this is all it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all! Again, thanks so much for the help!

Since we last talked...I did do the water change, 90% and I moved my bristlenose girl into another tank, so she is happy and away from the salt. While I was doing the water change I put filter sponges over the outflow of both filters so the current would not be as strong since Krang was slightly floaty (yet not actually floaty). I then salted 0.1% for the first 12 hour period. Since then I have salted for the 2nd 12 hour period bringing the level up to 0.2%.

As I was cleaning, I think I figured out what may have made Krang sick. From what I have noticed, fish often get sick when there is a change. About 2 months ago, I put in a glass loaf pan (for making bread) with some small plants planted into it. There was about 4 inches of gravel in there and I built a little "green house" around it by using the plastic bars from one of those floating "breeders". Well, because it was kind of enclosed the goldfish could not root around in the gravel inside of it, plus it was kinda deep grvel and I found a lot of yuck in there. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that this could be a problem, but I just overlooked it. So now, those plants are sitting in a tub. I think that was the cause.

So, today Krang has been up at the top of the tank and not rooting around the bottom looking for food as she normally does. Her body is slightly at an angle with her head down and tail up, not a big angle, but still not normal. She will swim around now and then but when she tries to turn, her body starts to roll. Normally she quickly rights herself. Sometimes she will go upside down, but she quickly remedies this. She did eat some pellets, but I decided to switch to peas. She ate a few of each, but she has not gone after them like crazy, as she normally does. Also, she has been eating much slower and even spit out half a pea (that my other fish snatched up once he saw it). I am not sure if her wen is improving, the light (and maybe my mind) plays tricks and makes me think its worse, then makes me think its better, can't tell yet.

I got the pet store to order a nitRATE test for me and it should come in a week. The same store did have the Jungle antibacterial food but I didn't get it because (1) I didn't think I needed it yet an (2) that store is notorious for having outdated products, and the Jungle antibacterial food did not have an expiration date on it. However, it may have to do until medigold arrives, if it is time to go that route.

Now let me reply to my wonderful helpful friends:

Yes, every 12 hours X 3 for the salt, not every 24 hours . I wrote 3 days, but I knew it was supposed to be each 12 hours, makes total sence, I just wrote it wrong. Whoops!

I had actually read a post about canning and pickling salt being 3/4 teaspoon per gallon...and I think that post was actually written by you ashlee18!

That salt post is cool, it is amazing how many types of salt are out there! I remember once reading something about how Aquarium salt is bad for dropsy...did I imagine or is that true?

Yeah, I was not worried about the original color change of Krangs wen (from a red cap to white with a few red spots) and that did happen slowly over a few years. However I did get worried when her wen went from kinda transparent (like it would glow when under the light) to a pink under, milky on top, non transparent. That happened in about a few weeks, maybe a month. It also became swollen and more segmented/bumpy, not smooth/textured as it once was.

Thanks for the nice words Chrissy_Bee! I always find your posts so helpful and nice too. And I think your screen name "Chrissy Bee" is adorable!

No need to apologize koko, your words are always welcome, thanks for reading my post!

And thanks to all of you for reading my post and for replying. Again I thank you so much and Krang thanks you too (and so does Isis, Krang's tankmate, he loves his Krang girl).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the nice words Chrissy_Bee! I always find your posts so helpful and nice too. And I think your screen name "Chrissy Bee" is adorable!

Awwwwww thanks :wub:

I think you may have found your problem for sure. I'm willing to bet your nitrates are high, this can also cause floating issues. Do you have gravel in your tank? And did you clean the filters? Best to really get all the 'gunk' you can out of there.

PS I meant to mention before, I love the name Krang.....Ninja Turtles!!! :D :D

Edited by Chrissy_Bee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its funny, whenever I type up a new post, I come back to find that already people have written new ones! Thanks so much, you all are the best.

stakos,

Krang has always had an uneven wen, it was just smoother but still uneven, but this is no growth spurt. The wen is in the same porportion, however it is swollen, discolored and segmented. This change has happened in about a month. I have never seen such a huge change in a goldfish in a month. Also there is some red vainning showing up, not sure if it can been seen in the pictures. Plus there is the floaty issue. I wish that it was just a growth spurt, but I know that it is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Acro, you are highly observant of your fish, this goes to show what a great fishkeeper you are. Krang and the gang are sure lucky to have fallen into such good hands. good work :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chrissy_Bee,

I think the nitrates were high, but hopefully they are not high anymore after the water change. I forgot to mention about the gravel, yes I took half out, even though it was only enough to cover the bottom glass (check the pictures that I referenced to before). I did filter cleaning a week ago, but I may have to do it again just incase. I think I know what I'll be doing before bed!

Yes!!! Someone linked the name "Krang" to the Ninja Turtles! Loved them when I was a kid and since my Krang had that big red brain lookng wen, her name fit perfectly! High five to you Chrissy_Bee!

And thank you for the kind words sakos (hug hug). You know, I dont think the pictures capture exactly what I am seeing. It seems people dont notice exactly what I am trying to point out. I may have to try and take some more pictures again, maybe get some more lights on there or something. Maybe I should just hold her in my hand, could be easier...maybe.

Edited by Acro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The wen crackling just doesn't want to photograph well, especially on a light colored fish. I did find that a flash picture helped it to show up a bit, but it is still really hard to get a proper photograph of it...so frustrating because with the naked eye it is next to impossible to miss. An overhead shot might help. I do think that you probably found the source of your trouble. Another reason to get into the routine of weekly water changes. I really bet that with good water quality this will clear up soon. Keep us posted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
  • Create New...