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Mforman

New Member Looking For Help W/ Goldfish

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Hi All!

New member looking for a possible diagnosis for my celestial goldfish,Hank. He's in a 5 gallon tank and the tank is just about 4 months old. Ammonia levels are fine, unable to test anything else at this time. Just did 25% water change this morning.

Came home this evening to find a very pointy bump on either side of Hank's body (just before his tail) and have not been able to find similar examples online.

A week ago Hank seemed to be having problems with his swim bladder (probs staying upright, etc) and the same bumps appeared (although less severe) while we were treating him for that. The issues seemed to go away within three days. Treatment we gave for SBD was 15 minute saltwater baths (a few times everyday) and fasting other than 1 pea daily.

No other symptoms today other than the protrusions on his sides. Put him in saltwater bath twice and gave a pea to eat, doesn't seem to be improving.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

IMG_4620.jpg

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Could you please answer this form, to give us a little more information about your setup and fish? Thank you :)

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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Hi Dnalex,

Thanks for your reply!

As mentioned above, the tank is 5 gallons (has been running 4 months), just did a 25% water change yesterday and I change at least 10-15% of the water every 2-3 days. Unable to test for levels other than ammonia (which is 0) and water temp is between 70-71 degree F. We use a product called Aquasafe to treat the water.

He is the only fish in the tank, and the filter is an Aqua-Tech 5-12. Also an airstone in the tank. We were feeding flakes but last week switched to sinking granules and the occasional pea.

No other unusual behavior or anything in the tank (fungus,etc).

Thanks!

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UPDATE: Swelling on left side seems to have increased (scales poking out just a little bit). Bump on right side has decreased but is now red. Hoping it's not Dropsy :-(

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Well the problem first is the tank is to small and so is the filtration on the tank to. LFS some times will sell you want you want to hear.

The problem with a tank this small is levels off ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates increase really fast and make the fish sick.....Im thinking your fish has a internal bacterial infection. but with out the rest of the information its going to be hard to treat, can you get the rest of your water tested from the LFS?

I would suggest salt in the tank, but like I said with out the other information, it might make things worse.

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Hi Koko,

Thanks for the advice! I'm gonna head over to my LFS and have it tested today. Will update then :-)

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Make sure they give you the exact numbers so that you can report them, in my experience they will typically just say "everything looks fine" without giving you details, so you may need to ask for numbers (what the pet store thinks is fine may not actually be) :D

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Just got back from aquarium store. Water tested fine, Ammonia 0, Nitrate/nitrite 0 and ph within normal range. Showed pics to the people at the store and they definitely think it's Dropsy. They said that I can continue treating him with saltwater baths like I've been doing, but that's pretty much all I can do as antibiotics don't work very well if at all. Apparently Dropsy is fatal the majority of the time. Got my little guy some brine shrimp to keep him happy since there's nothing I can do now :-(

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Its not really dropy's, this is a different kind of a bacterial infection. I have a member i pmed that has delt with it more than I, She will try to help when she sees it. But for now keep doing the salt baths. :)

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Hi!

Like Koko says I believe this to be bacterial cysts. They come up on the fish like this and sometimes they come out and 'explode' and others they get reabsorbed in the body. Here is another member dealing with this at the moment so you can read up on it.

- what filter do you have on this tank?

- what water conditioner

The issue is that, to treat this and keep the fish healthy, you need a larger tank. Can you get your hands on a 10Gal rubber tub? Then you can move the current filter to that tub. Do you have good surface movement to keep the water oxygenated?

What I would do is this: move the fish to a larger tub. dose it with a light dose of salt (0.1%). You can read about how to salt tanks in the link in my sig. Do not do salt dips anymore. How strong were you dosing them? Dips are always a stress on the fish and you keeping on handling them is going to harm his slime.

Then try and find some antibiotic food. What you might find easiest is Jungle Anti-Parasitic. THe important ingredient is Metronidazole with is great for internal infections and also very mild on the organs.

Keep us updated.

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Exactly. These are small internal cysts. Occasionally caused by worms encysting but more often than not caused by common bacteria in the water, especially in this lateral line position rather than near the vent and gonads (parasites prefer the latter).

Internal cysts happen when organics increase and the fish is sucking them up as he eats food or his own poop or just moves around the tank... the cysts eventually either pop at the surface like a zit or worse, deflate inside the fish where they cause distension of the organs and dropsy, which is what has happened here. The dropsy effect is caused by the bloat of the poisonous pus inside pushing up against and pushing out all the goldfishes teeny organs squashed up in there.

As Captain Findus says oxygen is extra crucially important so that all the organs can continue to function properly despite trauma. Some people have had success with Maracyn Plus in the water for these kind of bacterial cysts but if he is eating and behaving well, med food is probably still best. I would choose Jungle AB Sulfa med food over AP. Best of all would be Metromeds or Medikoi which contains the metro AND sulfa.

The good news is your fish is still eating. This means with the med food he has the best possible chance of beating the dropsied effect.

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Hi All,

I am so thankful for all of your suggestions. I'm not sure if these are cysts as they are in exactly the same spots on wither side of his body. The lump on the right side has decreased but is now red and it looks almost like he lost a scale. The lump on the right side has increased inside and is slightly red and his swimming has started to be effected (probs with staying upright).

I went to find some of the Jungle brand treatment you suggested but have been unable to find some as of yet. I'm frustrated since it seems like every person has a different suggestion. I went to a good aquarium store and they suggested "Ich Attack" as a treatment. Not sure if I should use it but I got some anyways. You have to remove the filter for 7 days to use it and that makes me nervous. He also suggested stopping salt baths as well. I plan to add some salts to the tank when I get home.

I had one guy suggest feeding him minced garlic??

Will keep trying to look for the treatment food and may try the 10 gallon tub as well. Thanks guys!

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Here is a picture of ich for you to compare for yourself :

Sheldonsich.jpg

Ich parasites do not encyst internally. Internal encysting means :embed themselves deep within muscle tissue inside the fish.

"Ich attack" contains 5% napthoquinon which is a surface cytoxin. Meaning it kills surface cells. Absolutely what you do not want.

We have all here been told alarmingly inaccurate stories from staff workers at petstores. You have to be very very careful. Sadly it is a money business first and many staff are there today and in the hoisery department next week. Over the years many of us have found it is best to ask in a forum where fish specialists gather who have kept fish for decades and have seen many diseases the same pass through :)

Yes, lots of people add minced garlic to food, it is a great immunity boost.

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Hi Trinket,

It's definately not Ich, the man at the store said it helps with other diseases too, but I'm definately not going to use it. Thanks for the heads up. We're still trying to finds the meds you recommended.

Also Captain Findus, the salt baths we were doing were 2 tspns salt in 2 gallons of water. We do have an airstone, I'll have to check on the filter type when I'm home.

Thanks again guys!

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Generally speaking medicated food is best for internal problems and disinfectant/antiseptic and waterborne treatments best for surface problems.

Ultra Cure BX : Ultracure BX

Romet B. (sorry can't find a link )

Metromeds Metromeds

or

Jungle antibacterial food Ant bacteria Jungle

All contain sulfa variant antibiotics if you can find any of these I would start him on a course.

Click on a link and you can view details /order online.

But .....I have to agree with Koko and Federica. This tank is too small for your fish and medicating is just a band aid. The root cause has to be dealt with or this may happen all over again. Each time we medicate a fish they get weaker and the next time the meds don't work as well either, so it is very important to pay attention to what has been said regarding changes to your water schedule and tank :)

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Hi Trinket,

We finally found some of the jungle antibiotic fish food! He's been gobbling it up since last night and does look a bit better this morning (yay!).

As for the tank, we are adding salt according to your directions. We are more than willing to upgrade to a 10 gallon tank. The only thing I am concerned about is establishing the filter in a new tank when he's sick.

When we set up this tank (the 5 gallon) ammonia levels were right about.50-1.0 for weeks and all we could do was frequent water changes. Should I wait a week or so while he recovers before putting him through this process again?

Again, thank you for all of your help and suggestions!!!

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I would move him asap. The more water surface you have, the more space there is for the organics to dilute. In a large tank you should never get such high ammonia readings daily.

Can you set up the 10Gals and put the filter you are currently using on it? It will be cycled so there won't be any problems there. Or you can use whichever new filter you want and just put the old/cycled filter media and sponge in it, mixed with the new ones so the new tank should be almost cycled right away :)

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Hi Captn Findus,

I'll go out and get a 10 gallon tank in the next day or two. The filter I have is an aqua-tech 5-15. The company's website says that it's ok to use for 5-15 gallon tanks so perhaps we can just move that filter over to the new tank!

Thanks!

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Hi Captn Findus,

I'll go out and get a 10 gallon tank in the next day or two. The filter I have is an aqua-tech 5-15. The company's website says that it's ok to use for 5-15 gallon tanks so perhaps we can just move that filter over to the new tank!

Thanks!

Hello. The Pet-co is having their 1 dollar/gallon sale right now, and today is the last day, I believe. So, if there is a Pet-co near you, you can run out and grab one for ten bucks today :)

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I have the new tank and it was indeed 10 dollars! We also got new gravel to accommodate the larger tank. Since we'll be using the same filter, should we let the tank and the new gravel settle for any period of time before moving Hank in? Also, should we use any of the water from the old tank to fill the new one?

Thanks!

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Good deal!

How much gravel do you plan to use?

You don't need to transfer water.

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We have 10lbs of gravel in the tank and it's all new (but we did wash it first). The tank seems a bit cloudy since we set it up... think we should move the filter and then transfer Hank later?

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