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Guest GoldFishNewbies

? Confused Much Yes! ?

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First off, how CUTE are you to make such a great video!!! I absolutely LOVE that you are getting into serious fishkeeping at your age! I'm so happy when we can help young people learn how to do it right early on. What a great kid you are! Okay... moving on!

I'm just going to touch on points in your video as you brought them up.

Your fish are small enough right now that I'm not going to harp too much on the fact that you're overcrowded, but I just want you to remember that, when they grow a bit, especially seeing as you have three single tails (and I'm not seeing a moor...??), you are going to need to upgrade. Oh, one of the single tails is only a temporary visitor? Well, I still didn't see the moor. I'm glad that you will be getting rid of one of the single tails.

Your test results are great. pH and ammonia are right where they should be. When nitrites show up is all really dependant on so many various factors, but an average time might be around 10 - 14 days, and don't be disappointed if it takes longer, but I would suggest being prepared to have a nitrite test kit by then so you'll be ready to test for nitrites. It's very important to test for nitrites as they are pretty much just as deadly as ammonia. Nitrates could show up around 20 days, so at around that point, you'll want to have a nitrate test kit to start testing for that as well.

I, personally, just don't like commercial, store-bought, processed food. I much prefer homemade gel food, but that's just me. Your food and the way it sinks so quickly is good. I see no problems with it there. And the amount you feed is good too. Just make sure that each of them get their share, i.e., drop the pieces one at a time, as close in front of them as you can. That won't assure they'll actually see it and eat it, but it can help.

Most of us are good with only feeding once a day. Overfeeding a goldfish can cause some really serious problems with constipation, bloating, floating, etc. If your fish are only getting two pieces of this food twice a day, i.e., four pieces total, with time to process in between..... well, I might be okay with this. Watch their poop. See what it's doing. That can give you an idea of not only their health, but how they're processing their food as well.

You questioned whether daily water changes meant EVERY DAY. Yup. Unfortunately, when you're cycling and especially when you have ich, it sucks, I know, but water changes need to be every day. But, water changes need to be based on your readings. For instance, if you took a reading and it was neglible, you could skip a water change for one day. But, if you did a water change, say, in the morning, and then took a reading later in that day and got 1.0 ppm, you would have to do another water change that very same day. It's all about the test results.

Now, even though your water test readings are fine and maybe you can manage to push it two or three days with good readings, I still want to encourage very large daily water changes to help get rid of the ich. I, personally, would do probably 90%. As I've said, ich not only lives ON the fish, it lives in the water, the gravel and the filter media, and during those times, you won't see it, so getting rid of the water and rinsing the media really, really well, will help remove ich eggs and the free-swimming ich from the tank. This is why you see new spots appear on the fish that weren't there before. New eggs hatched, began their swimming phase, and then attached themselves to your fish. This cycle will continue until all the eggs have been removed, so that's why water changes are necessary and that's why you have to keep up the treatment and routine at least two weeks after you see the very last ich.

And, speaking of gravel, I see you have a thin layer of it. That's a really great breeding ground for ich. I would highly suggest removing the gravel until you have gotten rid of all of the ich. Some people don't believe in having gravel under any circumstances, and I will agree, it can add another level of worry to a tank because it is a breeding ground for parasites and bad bacteria, but I'm not going to tell you you can't have it permanently. Just remove it while you're battling the ich.

And, I would also suggest that you boil the gravel after you remove it all to make sure you kill any ich that's living in it. You can put the nice, clean gravel back in the tank when all the ich is gone.

Once you've gotten rid of the ich and when you put the gravel back into the tank, it is absolutely necessary that you vacuum the gravel really, really well each time you do a water change to make sure you get all the poop and any leftover, uneaten food from the tank. If this detritus isn't removed from the tank and allowed to rot, this is what can cause bad bacteria to develop.

It isn't that the ammonia alert is "unreliable," it's just that it doesn't detect all of the ammonia. It detects the worst ammonia, the ammonia that's going to harm your fish the most, called "free ammonia," and that's good, but still, it can't test for all of the ammonia and you need to know all of the ammonia that's in your tank, so you can know that with your tests.

Love your digital thermometer! I agree. Why use one of those silly old thermometers when you have something as nice as a digital thermometer?! You can get down to tenths of degrees and that's great. So, don't apologize! Yeah, you realize your water is a tad warm. It's not the worst, but for now, warm water is good to help get rid of the ich. So, yeah, if you wanted to hook up the heater, you could go ahead and do that. Let the temp rise slowly so it doensn't shock or stress the fish.

Once you're past the ich, if you wanted to cool the water down even more, there are aquarium fans you can get. I have two fans installed into my tank top. It drops the temperature by about 10 degrees. If you're going to use fans, however, make sure you cover the air intake portion of the fan with filter media to filter out dust and contaminates that might be floating in the air. I would also make sure to cover the open portion of the tank top with something, a piece of plexiglass cut to size or even a piece of saran wrap to keep out those same airborn problems.

Glad you showed us the "crud" on your 10 gallon filter. It looks to me like that's just the results of what filter media is supposed to do. That's just all the detritus; food, poop, etc., that was sucked out of the water and was caught in the filter media. Yes, good bacteria will grow in your filter media, but no, you won't be able to see it. The detritus you see there is what, left unattended, will cause bad bacteria, which is why you need to rinse that out with every water change. (Never rinse your filter media in tap water as that will kill any good bacteria growing there. Rinse your filter media in some of the water you removed from your tank during your water change.) I had a hard time seeing the green, and normally, I'd say just rinse the filter really well and you would be fine, but, as I said before, seeing as it has had ich in it, I would suggest you just throw it away. You have to make the decision, is keeping the filter worth the possibility of introducing MORE ich into the tank and causing you and the fish more problems.

Regarding your fin rot. First, if you see white, don't confuse white edges necessarily with something bad. New fin growth will first come out white. If the white isn't fuzzy, it's just growth. If the edges look fuzzy, then salt will treat any fungus you might have. Ragged edges that aren't fuzzy are usually the result of some low level stressor, of which there are many. Right now, with your tank going through a cycle and ich, these are two good stressors right there. Ragged fins with no fungus aren't the worst thing to worry about right now. Hopefully, once you get rid of the ich and the water is cycled, this will improve. If it doesn't, we can start looking at other stressors at that time. And, it was a bit difficult to see, but your fishes' fins look pretty good overall really.

Yup, you're right as far as not wanting to get your fish from one of the chain pet stores. Look up "Aquarium and Aquarium Supplies" in your telephone book or online, for local fish stores in your area. We call them "lfs" for short. Basically, a place that sells fish should not selll any other type of animal. They need to specialize in fish and fish only.

The best way to deal with any problems that might be left in your 10 gallon is to completely empty out all the water from the tank and filter, throw away the filter media, clean everything with a light bleach solution, rinse really, really well and then let it all dry out really well.

Salt in the tank will help with the ich. Prazi-Pro in the tank will also help with the ich. A salt dip will help knock off any ich that is on the fish. If you need specifics on how to do any of that, check out the links in my signature. The salt you say you have should be fine as long as it doesn't have iodine/iodide. The link in my signature, "Salt As Treatment," discusses all of these issues.

Can you confirm for me exactly what filter you have? First you said an Aqueon 20, then you said Aqueon 30. There's a big difference between these two. One's okay, the other isn't.

Your bottles of conditioner are sooo tiny! lol! With daily water changes, you're gonna rip through those in no time. You might as well invest in a big bottle. It's not like it goes bad. And, you might want to consider a conditioner called Prime. It will help with the ammonia. It doesn't get rid of it, so don't be confused with that. It just binds it so it's a little less harmful.

I know this is all soooo confusing, but you'll get it! And I just want to give you a great, big, huge hug! You're soo cute!

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

thanks my tank is 29gal 85f and 4 goldies

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Guest Mike and Linda

Just remember even though the ich may seem to be gone keep the salt in for at least 7 days after that just to be sure. I would do a water change maybe every three days to pick up the ich that falls off. Remember when you do a water change you have to replace the salt. You have a 29 gal so if you 3 teaspoons per gal that would be 90 teaspoons total so at a 50% water change you would have to replace 45 teaspoons. Salt is only removed by water changes. If you have problems just ask. Some fish don't like much salt I have that can't take salt at 3 teaspoons per gallon. Good luck Mike

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thanks my tank is 29gal 85f and 4 goldies

85 degrees is already approaching the upper limit for goldfish. I would leave the temp at that, or even lower it a little to 80-82.

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Guest Mike and Linda

I would not keep goldfish at 85 for long term. Mine are kept at about 75 or 76 F But for ich 80 should be fine then lower it for their regular temp.

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Hey there! I saw you had another topic that was the same as this one but had some important salting information for you about ich so I moved the posts here for you. Make sure to read up and it should help out a lot!

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Guest Mike and Linda

How are your fish doing today?

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Guest Mike and Linda

I would not boil water to stick into your tank. You can give your fish a frozen pea once a week to help clean them out. Just make sure you take the outer shell off first. Try and look for a cheap heater. Can you afford to buy a heater? White specs that you see might be ich. I saw your video and your fish are very small but cute little guys. You can still get rid of ich at 75F it might just take a little longer.

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

0o0o0o thanks so much what i am doing is not letting cool air in my room and it went up to 76.3 better then 75 i guess for the ich

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0o0o0o thanks so much what i am doing is not letting cool air in my room and it went up to 76.3 better then 75 i guess for the ich

Yes, this will be a better temperature for treating the ich. The warmer the water, the faster the ich eggs will hatch, the sooner you can get rid of them.

Keep up with the large daily water changes. Try to get those free-swimming ich out of the water before they attach to your fish!

Do you understand the amount of salt you're supposed to be using and how to replace it with each water change?

Did you get some Prazi-Pro?

How many individual ich parasites might you guess are attached to each of your fish?

Edited by Lynda Von G

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

i havent done a water change since yesterday because of the salt im up to 0.02% salt and i think with every water change you suppossed to put the amount of salt level in the tank with the water change?

i have no prazi-pro i have diamond crystal it doesnt have any idodine

about 4 all on Amelfy(oranda) 3 on dorsal fin and one on the top fin on her body

can there be any other reason for having white dots does it have to be ick/ich because if its not im just stressing my fish out with all the treatment stuff?

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

Also with all this infomation im thinking of making a big ick teeament post because i see thats theres many other post about how to solve ick so i want to make a big post about how to do it so many other people can benefit from all this infomation that i got

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Hi there! Here are some answers to your questions.

Bloated fish - are their scales sticking out? I would fast them for 2days and then try and feed peas like Mike said.

Reduce feedings to 2 crumbles each. Pre soak them first in tank water so they are nice and mushy

LFS is just a store which only sells fish and fish stuff.

Try and get a heater. Warming water to put in the tank will just lead to temperature fluctuations which can stress the fish.

Don't forget to keep testing your water and do the daily water changes. You are doing great.

How many teaspoons of salt do you have in the tank for now?

What you see on the floor is probably just salt. Make sure you dilute it good before you add it.

Edit to answer your new posts:

i havent done a water change since yesterday because of the salt im up to 0.02% salt and i think with every water change you suppossed to put the amount of salt level in the tank with the water change?

your tank is 30Gals? So in total to be at 0.3% you will need 90teaspoons of salt (US people correct me if I am wrong as I use grams). So once you have all those in (without taking any water out) you are at the correct level. Then everyday you do a 50% water change and add back 45teaspoons. Is this clear?

i have no prazi-pro i have diamond crystal it doesnt have any idodine

Sounds good. Did you make sure it also has no anti-caking agents?

Prazi pro isn't salt, it is a very mild treatment for flukes. But you can worry about that once you have treated ich :)

can there be any other reason for having white dots does it have to be ick/ich because if its not im just stressing my fish out with all the treatment stuff?

Salt doesn't really stress the fish. It is actually a normal quarantine regimen we use all the time. Do the white pots look like little grains of salt? If so they are ich :)

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Guest Mike and Linda

I live in canada but if you want I have a 100 watt glass heater Visi-therm submersible heater that I can send you free of charge. The heater is new. The option is up to you. Just email me if you want it. I know that you are young and may not be able to buy much stuff.

Edited by Mike and Linda

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i havent done a water change since yesterday because of the salt im up to 0.02% salt and i think with every water change you suppossed to put the amount of salt level in the tank with the water change?

i have no prazi-pro i have diamond crystal it doesnt have any idodine

about 4 all on Amelfy(oranda) 3 on dorsal fin and one on the top fin on her body

can there be any other reason for having white dots does it have to be ick/ich because if its not im just stressing my fish out with all the treatment stuff?

You have to do water changes every day. I know it's not easy and I know it's not convenient and I know it's going to take some figuring to know how much salt to add back into the tank, but like I've said, it's not just about your readings at this point. You must keep your ammonia as low as possible and that's one reason you need to do daily water changes, but it's also about removing the ich that are swimming in the water and living in your filter media. Every day, new ich hatchs, so if you can remove it from the water and filter media before it attaches to your fish, there is going to be less harm done to your fish.

If you will just read the article in my signature entitled, "Salt As Treatment," how to use salt, what kind of salt to use and how to replace salt will all be explained and you will understand it all much better. But, to just pull a few things from that article:

0.01%=1 tsp salt per 1 gallon of water.

0.02%=2 tsp salt per 1 gallon of water.

0.03%=3 tsp salt per 1 gallon of water.

Additional measurements that will make measuring easier are:

3 tsp = 1 TBLSP

16 TBLSP = 1 Cup

For a 10 Gallon Tank

Start with 0.01% salt, or 10 tsp salt.

If you choose to increase the level of salt to higher levels:

For 0.02%: Wait 12 hours, then bring the salt up to 0.02% by adding an additional 10 tsp salt.

For 0.03%: Wait another 12 hours, then bring the salt up to 0.03% by adding another 10 tsp salt.

Another thing to remember is that salt doesn't evaporate with water. It remains in your tank, so if you need to top off a tank because of evaporation, don't add more salt; however, if you remove water, such as with water changes, you are then removing salt and you will need to add more salt back in the tank after the water change. But, you don't add the full amount of salt that you originally added unless you did a 100% water change.

For example, if you did a 50% water change, you removed 50% of the salt, so you would only need to replace 50% of the salt. So, if you had a 10 gallon tank that you had added salt to 0.3% volume, you would have 30 tsps of salt in the tank. If you removed 50% of the water, you removed 50% of the salt or 15 tsps of salt, so you would need to add in 15 tsps of salt after the water change. If you do larger water changes or have a larger tank, you will need to do the math to determine how much salt needs to be used and/or replaced.

This is Prazi-Pro. You can see it in this link. Prazi-Pro It is a mild medication that helps kill the ich that are on your fish. It won't kill the ich in the egg stage, but it will kill the hatched ich. It must also be replaced after each water change, in accordance with directions and the amount of the water you removed. I would use it now in conjunction with the salt.

Without a clear, difinitive picture of the "white dots," only you can help us determine whether they are really ich. Ich will look like a definite white dot. Nothing else looks like ich. Here is a picture that might help you see what ich looks like: Goldfish with Ich

As long as you aren't overdosing the salt, salt doesn't stress the fish. In fact, it can help de-stress fish. Daily water changes won't stress the fish as long as they aren't being unduly chased around the tank or flitting about wildly. Ich and high ammonia will stress fish. That's why you need to do daily water changes.

Also, have you removed your gravel like I suggested?

Also with all this infomation im thinking of making a big ick teeament post because i see thats theres many other post about how to solve ick so i want to make a big post about how to do it so many other people can benefit from all this infomation that i got

Don't start another thread. You need to stick with just this one. That way, everyone who reads this will have all of your stats and information, the history of what you've been doing and what advice you've been given and it just keeps all your help and information all in one location. And, if a moderator thinks it should be "pinned," so that others can see it, they will do so.

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oops! I answered too quickly and forgot to watch your video first.... so to touch on that:

Sorry about your parents' non-support. I know how tough that can make things. Sometimes you will find members on here who are willing to send you things to help you out, so that can help. Otherwise, you need to just do the best you can. I know, it's hard.....

And, sorry about your calico and moor dying. It's sad, I know. We've all had our share of killing and losing fish, so we know. But, look at it this way. It's a learning experience. With each bad thing that happens, you learn how to be a better fishkeeper.

As far as your broken heater with a warranty. Contact the manufacturer and ask them what you need to do to get it replaced.

Do not add boiling water to your tank. The "benefit" of that will only last a few minutes and the harm that it could possibly do by scalding your fish isn't worth it.

It's hard to say what lfs are in your area, but, again, look in your telephone book or online for "Aquariums and Aquarium Supplies." The chain pet stores are not "lfs." A lfs should deal in nothing but fish.

The "bloating" or swelling of your fish could be from eggs and the rise in temperature could cause this. The most important thing is that you look very closely at your fish and try to determine whether there are any scales sticking out. This is what you want to be looking for: Picture of Scales Sticking Out

And, removing your gravel will not mess up your tank. Your tank isn't cycled enough right now to make a difference in that regard. The gravel is a great breeding ground for the ich eggs, so removing it will make one less place they can live.

hmmm... update on the prazi... it might help with the ich, but it's not a guaranteed solution to kill ich. It will help with other parasites, however.

Edited by Lynda Von G

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

Mike Thanks So Much & from the looks of it my fish are winning! :) mike my email is goldfishnewbie@gmail.com

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Guest Mike and Linda

I have the heater ready to go on Monday. I sent you an email. Do you have any way of buying Nitrite and Nitrate test kits.

Edited by Mike and Linda

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

Mike Thanks So Much

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Guest Mike and Linda

What all test kits do you have??

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Guest Mike and Linda

Thanks for the address. I will ship it out Monday. I live in Ontario Canada so i am not to far from you. i don't have a lot of money but I will send you 1 Nitrite test kit also it is very important for you to test for this.

Edited by Mike and Linda

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Aw. That is really nice!

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Mike, you warm my heart so much, it could replace the heater you're giving away. Unfortunately, my heart cannot be used as a nitrite test :(

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