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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

Ammonia Alert says below 0.02

[*]Nitrite Level?

unknown

[*]Nitrate level?

unknown

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

unknown

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

unknown

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

Don't have

[*]Water temperature?

65 Stable

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

29 Gallons 3 weeks

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

Aqueon Power Filter 20

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

20 Percent Weekly

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

5-4 Days Ago

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

4 Red Cap 1.5 Shibukens 1.5-2.0 Commet 2.0-2.5 Black Moor 1.0-.15 Calico Fantail 1.5

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

Aqueon Water Conditioner

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

Tetra's GoldFish Flakes 1xs A Day

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

1 The Calico She Also Started It

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

Aquarium Salt

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

YES ICH/ICK PLEASE HELP FAST

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

No

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  • Regular Member

Your tank is likely not cycled since you set it up 3 weeks ago. And it is also highly overstocked. First, get the nitrites and nitrates checked with a drop test kit. If you can't purchase one, have a lfs check it. I assume you have one of those seachem ammonia alert things? Those are very unreliable. You also need to be doing daily large water changes until your tank is cycled and upgrade it/rehome some fish or get some food safe containers.

To treat ich we recommend salt, but until your tank is cycled water changes are the only thing you can do.

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

Your tank is likely not cycled since you set it up 3 weeks ago. And it is also highly overstocked. First, get the nitrites and nitrates checked with a drop test kit. If you can't purchase one, have a lfs check it. I assume you have one of those seachem ammonia alert things? Those are very unreliable. You also need to be doing daily large water changes until your tank is cycled and upgrade it/rehome some fish or get some food safe containers.

To treat ich we recommend salt, but until your tank is cycled water changes are the only thing you can do.

Thanks for the post and i already started the salt treatment 0.3% of the water

calico started out with it then it spread to my black moor i need to get rid of them quick

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As your tank is cycling, it's really important to have a kit that measures pH, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate so that you can monitor them regularly, if not on a daily basis. Moreover, knowing these basic values and keeping them in control is the very basics of good fish keeping. There is a kit made that API called the Freshwater Master Kit that is really very accurate and will last for a very long time. I highly recommend it.

This is especially important, now that you have salt in the system.

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Oh, darlin'.... I'm really glad you found us, but so many problems.... and, unless you fix them, you're just going to compound problem on top of problem. Let me address the basics and then we'll work from there.

[*]Ammonia Level? Ammonia Alert says below 0.02[*] Ammonia Alert is just a warning device. It's not a true test of ammonia.

[*]Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrate pHlevel? unknown You always need to test a tank, even when it's cycled and when it's new and uncycled like yours is, you MUST test every day and do very large water changes every day based on your test results.

[*]Water temperature? 65 Stable Wow! I'm jealous! Where do you live?! Alaska?! Is this from a tank thermometer?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 Gallons 3 weeks

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size 4 Red Cap 1.5 Shibukens 1.5-2.0 Commet 2.0-2.5 Black Moor 1.0-.15 Calico Fantail 1.5 I'm addressing these together as they're connected. Regardless of what the lfs may have told you, fancy goldfish require a minimum of 10 gallons of water per fish, single tails require 20. As near as I can tell, you have two single tails and three fancies. Waaaaaaay too many fish for a 29 gallon tank. No matter what you do, there's no way you can have this many fish in this size tank. You will most likely never achieve a cycled tank with this many fish. Plus, single tails and fancies really shouldn't be kept together because the singles can swim so much more quickly and may have an unfair advantage with food, leaving the fancies not getting enough to eat.

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon Power Filter 20 This filter runs 125 gph. Again, regardless of what the lfs may have told you, goldfish need 10x the filtration as the size of the tank. So, for a 29 gallon tank, you need a filter that runs a minimum of 290/300 gph. Your filter is also waaaaay too small, so, in conjunction with your overcrowding, not to mention the ich, you have a real problem here as well.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 20 Percent Weekly When you have a new tank that is not cycled, you need to do very large daily water changes of at least 50% and easily up to 90%, based on your test readings, which is why you need to get drop test kits. Once your tank is cycled, weekly water changes still need to be a minimum of 50%.

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 5-4 Days Ago In an uncycled tank that is as seriously overstocked as yours, you probably have ammonia through the roof. I would suggest a 90%-100% water change immediately.

I'm sure you were told by your lfs that all you've done here was fine and okay. It's too bad that you have been put in this situation, but now we have to deal with it. But, we have ALL been there. We have. That's how we found this place. We've made our mistakes and learned, so it's okay.

As I said, your ammonia reading is probably through the roof, so the very, very first thing you need to do is to do a complete water change. Get rid of all your water.

Not only do you need to do a complete water change because of high ammonia, but also to help get rid of the ich.

Ich has a four-stage life cycle and only one of these stages is when you see it on the fish. The remaining three stages it is living on the bottom of the tank, in the filter and/or media and floating/swimming in the water. You won't see it during these stages, but it's there, so very large water changes also help get rid of ich.

Make sure you rinse your filter media really well in a bucket of fresh, clean water that's first been treated with your water conditioner. Rinsing your filter media in tap water will kill the beneficial bacteria that may be growing there, although, at this point, I doubt there's much there anyway. Normally, you would be advised to rinse the filter media in some of the tank water you removed during your water change to preserve your beneficial bacteria, which is what creates your cycle, but as it's, I'm sure, contaminated with ich, you'll be much better off just using clean, fresh, conditioned water. You need to rinse your media with each water change, no matter whether it's during this ich treatment, during cycling, or after the cycle is established and you're only doing one-a-week water changes.

You'll have to replace the salt each time you change the water. I know, I know. Not easy and not cheap, but that's how it has to go. It will make it easier to replace the salt if you take out all the water. If you don't, for whatever reason, remove all of the water, such as, when you get further down the road and don't need to do so, you need to make sure to adjust the amount of salt you replace according to how much water you remove and replace.

Raising the temperature to around 78 to 80 degrees will speed up the life cycle of the ich, thus, potentially helping you get rid of it faster. In the cold water you have now, the life cycle will slow waaaay down and it will take much longer to get rid of the ich.

After you do a complete water change, one of the first things you need to do is to reduce the overloaded tank or you'll never fix your problems. The three fancies or the two single tails would be okay in the 29 gallon, even though either of these groups really ought to be in a 40 gallon. So, I would suggest you either choose to keep the two single tails or the three fancies and take the other of the groups back to the lfs or get another 40 gallon tank and separate the two different groups of fish. Neither is an easy choice, I know, but it has to be done.

Also one of the first things you need to do is to buy drop test kits for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph and, if possible, GH and KH. You need to be testing your water daily.

Once you get all of this done, you just need to keep doing your daily testing and daily large water changes, (even if you have good readings, you still need to do large water changes to help get rid of the ich. Ich has a life cycle of about one month, so it's going to take quite a while to get rid of it all and you have to keep treating for ich at least 2 weeks after you no longer see any signs of it on the fish), adding salt, watching and staying positive and keep us informed!

Edited by Lynda Von G
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I wonder if in a case like this with an uncycled tank, where the salt can cause much harm in combination with the ammonia, it would be a better idea to use actual ick medication.

I have no experience with those, but from doing research over the last few days, I "found out" that API Super Ick Cure in the powder packets is supposedly rather mild for a medication, while at the same time working fast within one or two days.

Not saying I recommend this, I just wanted to bring it up so maybe someone with more experience can look into it. That way you'd get rid of the ick at least.

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

Oh, darlin'.... I'm really glad you found us, but so many problems.... and, unless you fix them, you're just going to compound problem on top of problem. Let me address the basics and then we'll work from there.

[*]Ammonia Level? Ammonia Alert says below 0.02[*] Ammonia Alert is just a warning device. It's not a true test of ammonia.

[*]Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrate pHlevel? unknown You always need to test a tank, even when it's cycled and when it's new and uncycled like yours is, you MUST test every day and do very large water changes every day based on your test results.

[*]Water temperature? 65 Stable Wow! I'm jealous! Where do you live?! Alaska?! Is this from a tank thermometer?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 Gallons 3 weeks

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size 4 Red Cap 1.5 Shibukens 1.5-2.0 Commet 2.0-2.5 Black Moor 1.0-.15 Calico Fantail 1.5 I'm addressing these together as they're connected. Regardless of what the lfs may have told you, fancy goldfish require a minimum of 10 gallons of water per fish, single tails require 20. As near as I can tell, you have two single tails and three fancies. Waaaaaaay too many fish for a 29 gallon tank. No matter what you do, there's no way you can have this many fish in this size tank. You will most likely never achieve a cycled tank with this many fish. Plus, single tails and fancies really shouldn't be kept together because the singles can swim so much more quickly and may have an unfair advantage with food, leaving the fancies not getting enough to eat.

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon Power Filter 20 This filter runs 125 gph. Again, regardless of what the lfs may have told you, goldfish need 10x the filtration as the size of the tank. So, for a 29 gallon tank, you need a filter that runs a minimum of 290/300 gph. Your filter is also waaaaay too small, so, in conjunction with your overcrowding, not to mention the ich, you have a real problem here as well.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 20 Percent Weekly When you have a new tank that is not cycled, you need to do very large daily water changes of at least 50% and easily up to 90%, based on your test readings, which is why you need to get drop test kits. Once your tank is cycled, weekly water changes still need to be a minimum of 50%.

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 5-4 Days Ago In an uncycled tank that is as seriously overstocked as yours, you probably have ammonia through the roof. I would suggest a 90%-100% water change immediately.

I'm sure you were told by your lfs that all you've done here was fine and okay. It's too bad that you have been put in this situation, but now we have to deal with it. But, we have ALL been there. We have. That's how we found this place. We've made our mistakes and learned, so it's okay.

As I said, your ammonia reading is probably through the roof, so the very, very first thing you need to do is to do a complete water change. Get rid of all your water.

Not only do you need to do a complete water change because of high ammonia, but also to help get rid of the ich.

Ich has a four-stage life cycle and only one of these stages is when you see it on the fish. The remaining three stages it is living on the bottom of the tank, in the filter and/or media and floating/swimming in the water. You won't see it during these stages, but it's there, so very large water changes also help get rid of ich.

Make sure you rinse your filter media really well in a bucket of fresh, clean water that's first been treated with your water conditioner. Rinsing your filter media in tap water will kill the beneficial bacteria that may be growing there, although, at this point, I doubt there's much there anyway. Normally, you would be advised to rinse the filter media in some of the tank water you removed during your water change to preserve your beneficial bacteria, which is what creates your cycle, but as it's, I'm sure, contaminated with ich, you'll be much better off just using clean, fresh, conditioned water. You need to rinse your media with each water change, no matter whether it's during this ich treatment, during cycling, or after the cycle is established and you're only doing one-a-week water changes.

You'll have to replace the salt each time you change the water. I know, I know. Not easy and not cheap, but that's how it has to go. It will make it easier to replace the salt if you take out all the water. If you don't, for whatever reason, remove all of the water, such as, when you get further down the road and don't need to do so, you need to make sure to adjust the amount of salt you replace according to how much water you remove and replace.

Raising the temperature to around 78 to 80 degrees will speed up the life cycle of the ich, thus, potentially helping you get rid of it faster. In the cold water you have now, the life cycle will slow waaaay down and it will take much longer to get rid of the ich.

After you do a complete water change, one of the first things you need to do is to reduce the overloaded tank or you'll never fix your problems. The three fancies or the two single tails would be okay in the 29 gallon, even though either of these groups really ought to be in a 40 gallon. So, I would suggest you either choose to keep the two single tails or the three fancies and take the other of the groups back to the lfs or get another 40 gallon tank and separate the two different groups of fish. Neither is an easy choice, I know, but it has to be done.

Also one of the first things you need to do is to buy drop test kits for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, ph and, if possible, GH and KH. You need to be testing your water daily.

Once you get all of this done, you just need to keep doing your daily testing and daily large water changes, (even if you have good readings, you still need to do large water changes to help get rid of the ich. Ich has a life cycle of about one month, so it's going to take quite a while to get rid of it all and you have to keep treating for ich at least 2 weeks after you no longer see any signs of it on the fish), adding salt, watching and staying positive and keep us informed!

Thanks So Much I Will Do This Immeditly

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They Seem Better Now Alot Of The Ick Has Fell Off And I Disposed Of It.

Do I Keep Them In There?

The calico has to stay because it still has but the black moor doesnt so can i remove him beofre he gets it again?

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They Seem Better Now Alot Of The Ick Has Fell Off And I Disposed Of It.

Do I Keep Them In There?

The calico has to stay because it still has but the black moor doesnt so can i remove him beofre he gets it again?

As I said, ich has 4 life cycles, only one of which you can see. Just because you can no longer see the ich, doesn't mean it isn't there. The full life cycle of ich is at least one month. In your cold water, it could be much longer. So, you need to continue to treat for AT LEAST two weeks beyond the very last ich you see. For instance, if you don't see any ich for 1 week and 6 days and then, on the very last day of those two weeks, you see even one ich, the two week timeframe starts all over again. I, personally, would even continue to treat for longer, because you must be absolutely certain beyond any doubt that you have gotten every last bit of it and you won't know that you have until you have given the remaining eggs time to hatch.

And, treating means very large daily water changes, rinsing filter media, adding salt, testing and being patient, but persistent.

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Although I inferred it, I neglected to come right out and state that you also need to buy a larger or a second filter for your 29 gallon tank. As I said, your tank should run at least a total of 290-300 gph. You can continue to use your existing filter, but you would need to get a second filter that runs at least 175 gph, although most of us choose to overfilter, so if you got something that ran 200-250, that would be even better. For instance, if you got a matching filter to what you have now, you could get the Aqueon 30, which runs 200 gph, and be okay.

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Guest GoldFishNewbies

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

0.25

[*]Nitrite Level?

Unknown

[*]Nitrate level?

Unknown

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

7.5

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

If needed i will test

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

API drops

[*]Water temperature?

73.5

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

29gals 3days

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

Aqueon power filter 30

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

every 4-5 days 25%

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

Earlier This Morning

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

4 Goldfish All about 2-3 in. in length

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

API tap water conditioner

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

wardleys floating crumbles in the morning and at night

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

one the oranda

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

a little salt

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? oranda has 3 on her dorsal fin

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? NOPE

my problems that i have and any info is great

1st: my oranda(Amelfy) has white spots on her dorsal fin about 3-4 dont know if its ick/ich\

2nd: my ph 7.6 ammonia 0.25 and my goldies seem to have small case of finrot maybe fins are like that(will take a picture if needed)

3rd: my 10 gallon also had ich/ick and my black moor and calico fantail died

4th: i dont have nitrite(i dont know which one is the bad one after ammonia) kit so cant tell but ive heard i shouldnt have b/c its been up for 3 days

5th: im attached to my goldies and hate doing this fish cycle recommend by a lfs

6th: my 10 gallon filter had green bacteria on it is it good or bad? and if its good can i put the bacteria in my 29gal even though its been through ick?

thanks. any help at this point is perfect

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I deleted your 2 other topics since it was basically the same thing.

The problem I am seeing here is poor water quality and being overstocked. I would do a large 50% water change on the main tank immediately. In a 29 gallon at most you can have in there are 2 fancy goldfish and even that's pushing it. Especially if the tank is not cycled. Because the tank is not cycled I would recommend doing two large water changes daily. A 50% in the morning after testing your water and another 50% in the afternoon after testing your water. Do you have aquarium salt or any other salt with no additives such as kosher salt?

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[*]Ammonia Level? 0.25 for having been running only three days, this is fine, but don't let it get anything higher than, at the very most, .50

[*]Nitrite Level? Unknown

[*]Nitrate level? Unknown You are going to need to know these two things eventually, once the cycle starts building, so I would suggest you get drop test kits for both of these as soon as possible

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? 7.5 This is a good reading

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? If needed i will test I'm sure your tap readings are fine based on your tank readings, but it can't hurt to know, nevertheless

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops good

[*]Water temperature? 73.5 Good temperature

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?29gals 3days

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 4 Goldfish All about 2-3 in. in length I put these two together as they are related. 4 goldfish in a 29 gallon is overstocked. Because 10 gallons per fish is the minimum, 3 goldfish in a 29 gallon is pushing it, so 4 is just way over, no matter the size. So, you're going to need to think about getting a larger tank soon. Btw... can you tell us, please, EXACTLY what types of goldfish you have?

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon power filter 30 This is fine for a 29 gallon, but as you're overstocked, another 100 gph would probably be a good idea.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? every 4-5 days 25% Seeing as your tank is only 3 days old, you will need to be doing daily water changes. 50% is going to be minimum, but it could be as much as 90%, based on your test readings. 50% will also be your average weekly minimum once your tank is cycled.

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Earlier This Morning Was your ammonia reading of .25 ppm at your morning water change or was it at the time of writing this post?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? wardleys floating crumbles in the morning and at night Once a day is enough. Also, you want food that sinks, not floats. Try soaking your food really well before feeding it.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? one the oranda Is this the one exhibiting the white spots?

[*]Any medications added to the tank? a little salt "A little salt?" What does that mean? Too much salt can kill if you don't measure it and know what you're doing. Make sure you measure your salt and add it according to guidelines.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? oranda has 3 on her dorsal fin Fungus isn't spots, but pictures will help us with this. Make sure they're nice and clear. If you have a hard time taking a picture in the tank, try removing the fish in a clear glass vase or bowl so they can't move much. That will help.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? NOPE This is good

1st: my oranda(Amelfy) has white spots on her dorsal fin about 3-4 dont know if its ick/ich. Is this the one you just added? Did you do a quarantine on this fish first? Yes, a picture would help.

2nd: my ph 7.6 ammonia 0.25 and my goldies seem to have small case of finrot maybe fins are like that(will take a picture if needed) Fin rot can be from a bacterial infection or another low grade stressor. Again, a picture will help.

3rd: my 10 gallon also had ich/ick and my black moor and calico fantail died Are you still using this tank or did the fish, unwashed filter, plants, decor, etc. from this tank go into the 29? I'm just trying to establish any possible cross-contamination.

4th: i dont have nitrite(i dont know which one is the bad one after ammonia) kit so cant tell but ive heard i shouldnt have b/c its been up for 3 days. No, after only 3 days, you won't have nitrites yet, but yes, you're right, that's the one that comes after ammonia. This is why you need all three nitrogen test kits so you can test for all 3 of these daily so you will know exactly when your cycle moves onto the next step.

5th: im attached to my goldies and hate doing this fish cycle recommend by a lfs Well, lfs are notorious for giving bad advice, so we're glad you found us here. It's unfortunate that they told you to cycle with goldfish, but you're stuck with it now, so we'll just help you through it the best we know how.

6th: my 10 gallon filter had green bacteria on it is it good or bad? and if its good can i put the bacteria in my 29gal even though its been through ick? The green is not "bacteria," it's algae. Now, green algae isn't bad. It's actually a good thing; not pretty, necessarily, but it's good.... on rocks and driftwood and decor. On filter media? I'm baffled, because algae usually grows in stagnant portions of water, so how the filter could be stagnant is baffling.... but, no, don't use this filter media if, for no other reason, because it's probably full of ich eggs. Toss this filter media. And I would suggest soaking the filter itself in a light bleach solution and scrubbing it really well. Rinse it well afterwards as well, to get rid of the bleach.

Raising the temperature to around 78-80 will help speed up the ich's life cycle, which may help you get rid of the ich sooner. Be aware that actually seeing the ich on the fish is only one of four stages of the ich's life cycle. The other are when it's the egg stage and free floating stage in the water and during these other three stages, you won't see the ich. So, you have to keep treating for ich for at least two weeks after you no longer see anything on the fish.

Salt is good to add, but you need to make sure you add correct amounts and in the correct order. Please take a look at either the topic, "Salt As Treatment" in my signature or this link to the same article: Salt As Treatment You will also want to use praziquantel, which works for parasites. Most common brand name is, "Prazi Pro." A salt dip will also help knock off the parasites that are on the fish.

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Also, I just realized that you had a previous post about, basically, the same thing. If that post gets a little "lost," you're better off pulling that one back up and adding to it. That way, we have a history of what's been going on and you won't have to repeat yourself as much. I'll see if someone can link these two posts....

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Here you go! I merged the two topics together so all of the information is available.

Thank you dahleeng..... :P

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So, in conjunction with what you posted before, the advice we've given and everything that's going on with you, can you tell us what you're confused about? Don't get me wrong. There's PLENTY to be confused about when it comes to keeping goldfish!, lol!, but if you can be specific with your confusions, we can direct our answers to those issues.

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nice video :)

so what probably happened is that the redcap (which wasn't showing any signs of visible ich) took in the bugs to your larger tank.

Just do what you did previously to treat them. So - warmer temps (80F) with a heater, SLOWLY raised from your actual temperature. Salting at 0.3% until the ich spots have been gone for 10days/2 weeks. There is a link in my signature which shows how to salt properly.

Try and keep the ammonia under 0.25. :)

Also - you can even feed the little ones less - a few crumbles each is more than enough.

Your filter looks totally normal too. Your tank is also very clean :)

Oh and your little fish look pretty healthy tho.

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Hang in there :) Many of us started our tank with little or no information ;) keep an eye on your temp and the heat and salt will kill the ich :) and regular w/c's will remove the ich and the ammonia as well :)

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Guest Mike and Linda

For ich. You must have a total of 3 teaspoons per gallon of water. You must add 1 teaspoon per gallon of aquarium salt now. 12 hours later you must add another 1 teaspoon per gallon and 12 hours after that you must add another 1 teaspoon per gallon to total 3 teaspoons per gallon don't add the 3 teaspoons per gallon at one time do it over 24 hrs.

During this time slowly turn up the heat in the tank. you will need a heater to do this. You will need to keep the heat at about 80 degrees for about one week or so.

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Guest Mike and Linda

We had aBetta that had ich and we used 1 teaspoon per gallon of salt and turned the heat up to 87F and the ich went away. Ich ca't live in heat.

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