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Rumpley

Help! Prized Fish Has Abscess?

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Hi,

I'm hoping to get some expert advice on how to deal with my sick prized goldfish. He is quite large, just slightly smaller than a baseball. I am completely heartbroken leaving him in this state, but I just don' t know how to fix this. I've literally looked for a fish vet in our area, but there aren't any (Vancouver BC Canada) I've had exotics for years and never have seen anything like this before.

About a month ago, he developed some small white spots on his wen which I considered normal as that's how they always appear as his wen grows larger and larger. Those small white spots literally ERUPTED into this huge pimple like "blister" of white infection within a few days. It almost looks like it came from the "inside out" as you can see the parameters of his wen skin stretched around it. I have tried two rounds of simultaneous bacterial and fungal medications (at the same time) and it hasn't made any difference whatsoever (thus the green tinge of the water.) It looks fungal, but the size of it is just so big - a large "blister" about the size of two peas put together. The rest of his body is perfect with no signs of stress. He still eats just fine and is active as well. I'm at a total loss at how to treat this.

I have more pictures if more perspective or detail is needed.

SickFishMay162011-014.jpg

SickFishMay162011-043.jpg

Edited by Rumpley

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Hello. I'm sorry your beautiful fish is having some issues. Would you please fill out the form below? It will be very helpful to include past treatments and what they were specifically.

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?

[*]Any medications added to the tank?

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

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Sorry - my husband takes care of the cleaning/testing of the tanks. I will get him to test the water and can post the results by tomorrow hopefully. I know the nitrate was high. We have been unable to change the water as the fish store said to do 10 days of treatment, with no water changes once we added meds. The tank is overdue for cleaning so I imagine the water will be poor quality by this point. The 4 other goldfish are healthy and showing no signs of stress or disease.

Some of these questions I can answer are noted...

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? SERA

[*]Water temperature?

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 72 Gallons, over 3 years

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 Filters - Fluval 405 and Fluval 305

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Every 2 - 3 weeks

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 3 weeks ago, 1/3 of the water

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 - large goldfish although the one with the disease is twice as large as the others. He is about 5 inches approx.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Stress Coat

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Saki Hikari sinking, once daily

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? 2 rounds of bacterial and fungal medications - don't know brand as I chucked the boxes, but good quality. I can find out though.

.[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? No

Edited by Rumpley

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Could you please also find out the exact name of the treatments you had done and for how long you've treated? Thank you :)

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Sure, no problem. I can go to the store tomorrow and find out the brand names. I did a bacterial med and a separate fungal med together for 5 days, then repeated again, with no water changes inbetween. There has been no change whatsoever in his "blister."

Any ideas though, just off the cuff, of what this might be?

Edited by Rumpley

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At least to my inexperienced eyes, it does not look like something bacterial or fungal or infectious. It seems more like a type of growth. Also, if it were bacterial in origin, I would imagine that the abscess would have popped in a month's time.

In any case, I am just helping to gather all the necessary/relevant infos so that once they are there, some mod/helper/experienced member can use that information to offer help :)

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Thanks for your assistance. I don't post on this forum often, but cruise it a lot. Are there a lot of experienced members on here? I'm just soooooo desperate to figure this out so I can help my fish.

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Thanks for your assistance. I don't post on this forum often, but cruise it a lot. Are there a lot of experienced members on here? I'm just soooooo desperate to figure this out so I can help my fish.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable of mods, helpers, and other experienced members on here. That is one of the reasons I joined this forum. People are very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful! :)

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I think we need Imo for this one!

To me it looks less like an abscess, I just have the experience of those being smooth on top, and looking like they are about to explode. THis one looks more like some sort of... wart???

Have you tried the regular salting of the tank?

What meds did you use and where? Because if you added water meds to your tank it could have killed the cycle. So make sure you get the water tested and do a very large water change, with filter maintenance soon.

I would be more for medicated food, it anything at this point.

Do you have a hospital tank to put this guy in? It would help protect the others and at the same time allow for perfect water quality for him with very frequent water changes.

How is his behavior?

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thank you for posting your concerns with your fish.. it will be definately required to have the following information as soon as possible (earlier than tomorrow if you can manage) as this may be treatable with a specific salt concentreation and HP swabbing (although great care required for the one closest to the eye) but we will cover this as we get the information we require and before administring treatment.

this is certainly not fungus.. but some type of growth that does not look as though it's about to spew anything out into the water but has potential to keep growing.. perhaps bacterial or can even have paracitic influence.

do you have gravel in the tank? how much? do you have or recently added plants to the tank? when?

so, we need accurate readings for the following:

[*]Ammonia Level?

[*]Nitrite Level?

[*]Nitrate level?

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

how long to go before the current medication used runs it's course? ie, how long before the next water change? a suggested QT tank/tub will be the ideal as there is no need to treat the other healthy fish with meds if only one has health problems.

i see in the images you provided that there are more "areas" for concern.. i have outlined these below if you can confirm and elaborate on my findings.

rumpley-orandawithgrowth.jpg

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Thanks for the input so far. I'm really, really grateful.

It's a strange thing and I hadn't been able to find anything that looked like this under fish diseases, no matter how much I "googled" it. My hubby is testing the water tonight and I'll post the results.

I have a feeling the water quality will be very poor because we haven't done a water change in almost 4.5 weeks now. The growth exploded about a week before we'd do our normal water change, and then the fish store staff said not to change the water while we were medicating it which has now been 10 days. We're going to test the water tonight, then do a change to try to improve the water quality.

The two other spots look like wen growth hopefully. I've been monitoring them and they're not expanding or changing which is good. Sometimes his wen comes in like that, but I also wouldn't be surprised if these were beginnings of infection/growths as well potentially because he's never had anything that looked like this before ever, and it hasn't responded to treatment. The blood spot is a cause of concern which he gets when he is stressed. There was one other time he was sick, and he got a blood spot secondarily, but it went away when the treatment meds worked. He got the blood spot again after this "tumour" thing erupted, and it's stayed put as well. I have experience with basic fish diseases but am at a total loss at what to do now.

He's active - swimming around like normal and eating well. Do have gravel - about an inch or two on the bottom that's been there since the tank was started about 3.5 years ago. We added one new plant into the tank but I "think" it was after this thing started showing up??

I don't have a quarantine tank but I would consider buying a small one if you think it would help, and not stress him out more? None of the other four show any signs of this....yet.

I'm on my way to the fish store now to find out what brand/type of meds those were, as I chucked the boxes after we completed treatment a couple days ago. They are bacterial and a separate fungal as well, and there has been no signs of improvement at all.

Be back soon!

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no problem..

i seriously don't think those meds will work as to me, it looks like something that will be controlled with nice clean water and some salt.. but we cannot add salt if the water has ammonia in it.. this will just increase the threat of ammonia poisoning and that alone will cause serious problems.

i do believe that the problem is isolated to the one fish. so, i feel that the qt needs to happen. we consider salt a medication and like most meds, we prefer not to expose other healthy fish to it.

if setting up a qt is possible, then i highly recommend it. it will need to be 10US gallons with suitable filter. the qt does not need to be a glass tank, it can simply be a new food safe tub of 10 gallons "rubbermaid" as they refer to them in the States from your local clearance centre i believe (sorry, i am in Australia so i don't know a lot about them). no gravel, no ornaments. just tank, filter and bubble wand. see if the LFS has HP aswell as i believe that we will need to swab the affected areas.

the salt needs to be aquarium salt or pure salt that does not have anti caking agents in it.. anti caking agents will kill the fish, so this is very important to know before you buy.

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when you get back from the store, i would like you to do a nice big water change of 70%.. then, 10 mins later, another nice big water change of 50%.. each time, siphon the gravel really well.. and each time, remove 2 cups of gravel (not to be replaced) if you can't see yourself going bare bottom with the tank, then a thin layer on the bottom as i have done is suitable for them to carry out their forraging thing. this way, the cleaning process is more accurate in ridding bacteria and toxins as it becomes almost impossible for them to be trapped.

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Okay, so back from the store...the fish guru there thinks it's a tumour based on my description. Said basically there is nothing I can do about it, and doesn't recommend excising it as it's too close to his eye. He said it just happens in goldfish and try to maintain a healthy environment to continue to support his immune system, but the disease will eventually run it's course.

Do you think it's lymphocystis? Apparently that's common in fancy goldfish? If it's a tumour, then it's just a "leave him be" scenario apparently.

The meds which he did not respond to were API Fungus Cure (3 mg Victoria Green B & 30 mg Acriflavin) + API Furan-2 (60 mg nitrofurazone & 25 mg Furazolidone) for gram +/- bacteria. Two rounds of treatment. No change.If it was fungal based, I'm assuming I would have seen some sort of change?

Eating some dinner, and will be back with the water info.... :)

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no.. i don't think it's lymphocystis.. i think it's more bacterial infection. either way, i feel confident we can do something about it.

by setting him up in qt. salting and hp swabbing.. i feel we can reduce if not rid the spots. yes, it is very close to the eye. and some really good handling skills will be required in order to not have the solution drop into the eye.. how confident do you feel that you can do this?

i am not convinced re the pic i reposted about 2nd growth is wen growth.. can you take a pic of it from a better angle and post it here?

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(not helpful or related to the problem) but wow Stakos, you go! From that photo you nailed future issues/growths! Great job on assessing this situation! I hope the fishie does well :D

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(not helpful or related to the problem) but wow Stakos, you go! From that photo you nailed future issues/growths! Great job on assessing this situation! I hope the fishie does well :D

thank you :D

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Whoah! The water results aren't good :( I'm not sure if this is due to wiping out the cycle with the meds, the fact we weren't able to do a water change or? Normally the water comes back right within the range. The PH is 5 (too low), kh 0-1, AM 0, No2 (ite) 0 and the No3 (ate) is a whopping 100.

Our tap water is ph 6 with kh 0. Doing a huge water change now....

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ok... don't panic.. yes, the water changes as i advised above would like you to do a nice big water change of 70%.. then, 10 mins later, another nice big water change of 50%.. but you will change the second water change to 70% rather than 50%..

don't delay.. if you can do this now please.

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If I quarantine NIgel (that's my fish) what type of treatment should I do? Are you referring to aquarium salt and hydrogen peroxide???

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at first salt to 0.1% but the filter for the qt needs to be cycled. your main tank's filter is cycled.. you will need to take some filter media from there and place it with the qt filter so that the good bacteria can take and an almost instant cycle achieved to the qt filter...

how did you go with the water changes? have the params improved in the main tank? and also a better pic of the second growth i noticed?

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New water is getting better:

Ph now 6

No3 10 - 15

Think we'll hold off on doing another until a bit of time has passed as it might be too much for the other fish? We have to get the Ph up more still.

Wouldn't the antibacterial meds have wiped out the tank cycle???? We were wondering if we have to recycle our main tank because of the meds, so I can't quarantine him until we have some healthy bacteria going on, no?

Here are some pics of his other white bumps you noted. Not the best pics but he's flying around the tank tonight ;)

SickFishMay162011-034.jpg

SickFishMay162011-013.jpg

SickFishMay162011-022.jpg

Edited by Rumpley

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ok.. there does appear to be more outbursts of what the primary concern of what you came to us with.

re the cycle.. the fact that you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 100 nitrates indicates that your cycle is still there... so take a deep breath and smile :) i sure am.. whew!

you can manage the PH level in the tank by adding bicarb soda or getting some crushed coral from the LFS (should be cheap) and adding some to the filter.. the crushed coral will stabilize the ph level for the tank longterm.. as for the water from the tap, you will need to treat that with PH buffer before adding so that the ph level matches the tank.

how soon can you have the qt tank set up?

i ask this as i was speaking with a moderator and we're both leaning towards the possibility of your fish having costiosis / ichtchyobodosis.. in order to treat this, and just incase it isn't.. i recommend we begin the salt treatment immediately.. if in 1 week, we do not see even a small difference, then we need to look at a suitable medication.

Edited by stakos
more info

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Costia? :blink: Can I ask who this mod was that you were speaking with any why you guys think that? In any case... the salt will probably help, because this appears to be a surface/skin lesion of some kind.

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there is a suitable plan we are working on here and costia is a possibility.. we did not say it is, we are entertaining the thought as a possibility if plan A does not work. thanks

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