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This Will Surprise You All.....


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Everyone at KG,

To cut a long story short, someone I vaguely know has a common gf in a 15 litre biorb bowl, and the goldie has been alive for fourteen years. It is very large, it can barely turn round in the bowl. I don't know their cleaning schedule for the tank, but they don't know much about fish so I don't expect them to be changing all the water every day-probably once a week at best- I dont think they change much of the big gf's water either when they do a WC.

My french teacher has 2 fantails in a 50 litre tank, tells me he changes some water once a month, and he has lots of algae in the tank (my guess is due to excessive nitrates), and his fish are 6 years of age so far. He tells me they are four inches.

If stunting shortens the lifespan of a gf, then dont these two stories challenge that?

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There are always exceptions...but there are far more tragedies in too small tanks/bowls.

Like smoking...not everyone will die of lung cancer, but many, many will. For example my Great grandfather lived to 89 and smoked from age 12; but my Grandfather died at 68 from lung cancer, my Uncle at age 44 from lung cancer...both smoked from a young age as well. Why risk it??

Edited by Red
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There are always exceptions...but there are far more tragedies in too small tanks/bowls.

Like smoking...not everyone will die of lung cancer, but many, many will. For example my Great grandfather lived to 89 and smoked from age 12; but my Grandfather died at 68 from lung cancer, my Uncle at age 44 from lung cancer...both smoked from a young age as well. Why risk it??

:goodpost:exactly

In addition to all that, it's a matter of aesthetics. I don't think it's very pretty or relaxing to be looking at a fish in cramped quarters.

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Common goldfish are also a lot more hardy than the fancy goldfish. They can survive terrible conditions usually. When people talk about goldfish being easy to care for and very hardy its the common goldfish that fit into this category. BUT, sometimes people go through several fish in these cramped conditions before one is just tough enough to take it.

Also, like others have mentioned here you get these almost bomb proof fish from lfs's that have already been through the ringer and the ones that survived and are up for sale are already sorta the bomb proof kind. But there are exceptions as always with anything, some may take it and live for many years and some may end up with all sorts of problems. A regular ol' fantail is also more hardy than say an oranda or tele IMO. Some types are also just more prone to certain problems and the fantail is not really one of those.

These fish that have survived in such conditions have done just that, survived. Have they really been able to enjoy life in that little tank or bowl? They are alive which is great but I think they would be much more happy if they could swim around and enjoy the space. I could survive living in a closet and being fed and given water but would I be happy?!?! Oh my goodness, NO! I could give many more examples of different animals and conditions they are kept in and live but you get what I'm saying. I'm not directing this at you or anything. Just giving my thoughts about it. ;)

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These fish that have survived in such conditions have done just that, survived. Have they really been able to enjoy life in that little tank or bowl? They are alive which is great but I think they would be much more happy if they could swim around and enjoy the space. I could survive living in a closet and being fed and given water but would I be happy?!?! Oh my goodness, NO! I could give many more examples of different animals and conditions they are kept in and live but you get what I'm saying. I'm not directing this at you or anything. Just giving my thoughts about it. ;)

Exactly!

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I have a student that has had a 4 inch oranda in a 10 gallon for the past 12 years......... but the whole reason to have fish is to keep them in ideal conditions that help them thrive and be true goldfish without disease or stress so they can be enjoyed to their full capabilities. Kind of like.....humans can live in impoverished war zones but thrive much better in a clean, peaceful setting.

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As said before, there are exceptions. It also depends on the breed in my opinion. Like even though single tails need more room than fancies, at the same time they are hardier and healthier, and so can handle bad conditions better than for example a telescope or pearlscale.

Because of that, whenever you hear those stories about a fish surviving in a bowl for so long, it usually is a common or comet.

Your teacher with the two fantails in a 15 gallon tank, that is similar. Of the fancy variety, fantails are the hardiest because they have fewer deformities (deep body, telescope eyes etc) bred into them.

So even if it is possible, it sure is not optimal. It would be like you having to live in a tiny little room with no toilet, and only once a month or even less someone would come and clean this room and open the window for a short while.

Even if you technically COULD live long in there, you would not be happy, would you? :)

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These fish are exceptionally tough, but I don't believe they challenge the suggestions of what living conditions they need. Not all goldfish are as tough as these, and for every story of a 20 year common in a 1/2 gallon bowl, there are thousands of stories of goldfish dieing in bowls within weeks or months.

I can keep a black tipped reef shark (which grow to be around 5ft) in a 75 gallon' tank until it can't turn around. If it's really tough, it will survive, yes. But does the survival of this particular shark mean that the typical housing requirements (which is like, either the ocean or an aquarium that's tens of thousands of gallons) go overboard and we can actually keep them in smaller enclosures?

There's always animals that "beat the odds" in less-than-desirable conditions, but to me, it's always better to offer them "too much" space, filtration, etc. than too little.

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It doesn't surprise me at all, I've heard lots of stories like this. Some fish are more hardy than others, and once kept in bad conditions for long enough, they seem to develop a tolerance for it. It's not good by any means though, and any person with a conscience and the ability to do a simple internet search for "good goldfish care" should be appalled that some people keep their fish like that.

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Here's another case, Butkiss the pacu.http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279295

A 75 gal tank is too small for pacus.

Edited by Au-fish
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When I found out my french teacher had goldfish (about a month ago now) my first questions were 'how big is the tank?' and 'what filter do you have?' He doesnt know what filter he has, he just says a box thing in his tank, and that the tank is about 50 litres. I told him he would need 120 litres at least for his fish to be able to grow and live a nice life, and he would need to be doing weekly water changes, and about the 10x filtration rule. He was amazed. I don't think he will fork out for a proper aquarium, hundreds of £££ (It was my birthday this time last week, and I got an aquarium http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/aquariums/aquatlantis-aquariums-wall-aquariums-nano-aquariums/aquatlantis-ambiance-aquariums/aquatlantis-ambiance-80x40-aquarium-and-cabinet-light-wood.html look at the price!! I had to buy everything to go in it as it was quite expensive). I am going to try persuade him to buy a fluval filter, and persuade him to do weekly water changes at least :)

Edited by ilovefantails
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There are always exceptions...but there are far more tragedies in too small tanks/bowls.

Like smoking...not everyone will die of lung cancer, but many, many will. For example my Great grandfather lived to 89 and smoked from age 12; but my Grandfather died at 68 from lung cancer, my Uncle at age 44 from lung cancer...both smoked from a young age as well. Why risk it??

Now Red!! why do you have to bring up "smoking" while I'm enjoying a cigar outside in my "Taj Mahal"?!!! But you're right ... from everything I have read in this site ... there are indeed exceptions...... If you Google the oldest Goldfish in an aquarium you will see one that has lived almost 20 years in a small tank .... maybe it has to do with the local water system? ... afterall .. our normal testing doesn't address all of the problems with the public H2O systems. ....

Tom

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One more thing that I have mentioned in past posts ... with all of the combined experience that all the great folks here at Koko's have ,... one would think that We/Koko's warriors could have some sort of affect on "Breeders" to at least make some attempts to breed for longivity as well as beauty!!!!! These highly "Tuned" fish require such perfect conditions to live a relatively "short" lifespan it is a sad thing at times to me.....on the other hand ..... some of the most beautiful things in this world aren't with us for long .... so what do I know!

W. Tom

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