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Fin Rot


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  • Regular Member

So rember a little while ago my big oranda Ed got his tail torn up? well i have been salting the tank and keeping ti extra clean but it wasnt helping and i was having trouble doing 90%water changes on the 80 everyday so i moved him into a 20 gallon he was doing much better in the 20 gallon so i moved him back into the big tank where he seemed to be stressing out everytime i would go to feed him he would swim away to hide and sit on the bottom untill i turned the lights out and walked away i tried offering shrimp snacks to no avail he kept bottom sitting whenever i came near the tank as well as the cats i started noticing the tips fo his tail turning black so i started peroxide treatment only to have him stressing out and bottom sitting more. so yesterday i have moved him into a bare bottom 10 gallon useing my bio wheel 400 as the filter i added aquarium salt and also started using melefix he seems more lively and doesnt seem to be freaking out so much when i go near the tank. im going to be doing 100 percent water changes everday to help him heal up i think apart of the reason hes so stressed in there is he is all alone he didnt started acting like this untill the catfish died :(

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poor guy. maybe just let him heal completely in the 10 gallon and add some decoration/plants to your big tank when he's ready to go back in it. How big is your big tank and what are the water parameters?

Edited by phishnet
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this is for the big 80 gallon

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?-0

[*]Nitrite Level?-0

[*]Nitrate level?-7 still says 7

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?-8.0

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?-drops

[*]Water temperature?-latley it has been at 76

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?-80 gallons about 7 months now

[*]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?-i have 2 penguin bio wheel 400 and i have a whisper 30

[*]How often do you change the water and how much?-normally about 75-80 percent every thursday but latley it has been about 90 percent evry 2 days

[*]how many days ago was the last water change and how much?-yesterday

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size?-just one and hes about 5-6 inches?

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners?-start right water conditioner

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often?-homemade gel food

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?-no

[*]Any medications added to the tank?-just salt

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?-just the blacked fin tips

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?-is eating but seems really stressed out and bottom sitting when i come close to the tank

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What is the exact sequence of all of this?

When did the tail first have issues?

When did you start doing 90 percent water changes?

Have you been testing your water daily?

Have you ever had ammonia readings?

How are you doing the water changes? Could the water not be matched to that in the tank?

What is the catfish story? What kind and when and how did he die?

Sorry if you have posted the information somewhere and I don't remember?

I would not want to have a large fish in a ten gallon tank for any length of time. I would want to find out what in the 80 gallon is causing his distress.

What decor or plants do you have in the 80?

How long have you had the fish?

What peroxide treatment did you do?

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Ok this is going to be a long post but here it goes about 2 weeks ago maybe i started noticing ed hanging around the filter intake tubes adn his fins kept getting caught and were getting horrably torn up so i put a nylon stocking over the intakes on the filters which helpe alot an his fins began healing noticable but then a few nights alter i gave them a new frozen treat which for some unusual reason sent my 2 catfish into a feeding/fighting frenzy and they killed each other. ed was alone in the tank for about 4 days when i started noticing him seemingly stressing out whenever i would walk near the tank to feed him and wold sit along the bottom to hide from me which hes always accepted food from my hands even and never even minded my reachign my hand into the tank to rub his side but after he catfish were gone he started becoming more nvervous then i started noticing from his bottom sitting his torn fins becoming blackend so i began doing the water changes and all before i decided to move him into the 10 gallon. he seems much more calm in the 10 gallon he is not hiding or bottom sitting he has started eating from my fingers again as though nothing has happend.

BUT tonight i started thinking about it and i even got on here to ask others about it but heres my therory that i would love input from toehrs on

i have witnessed this from 3 species of fish so far first from my guppies then from my catfish and now it seems from my goldfish.

my guppies i always were move around from 1 gallons to 5 gallons to 10 gallons about 35 guppies they were all very tame so to speak active happily swimming around the tank willy nilly untill i moved them all into a 30 gallon with realistic looking plants for about 3 weeks they all hide and stayed together in schools which was odd they had nevr reacted this way when being moved into other new tanks it took them 3 weeks to go back to feeling comfortable in the new larger tank.

originally i had my 2 catfish living in a 20 gallon before moving them into the 80 gallon they were livly,calm mellow and happyily swimming freely around the tank day and night nevr sppoke but for the first 4 weeks or so after being moved into the 80 gallon they were nervous hiding, not swimming around hardly not coming out to eat it took them about 4 weeks before they started feeling calm and mellow like before.then when the 80 gallon sprung a leak i had to move everyone back into a 20 gallon bare bottomed and no ecorations at all to hide in they were calm and comfortable as though they had been living there forever but again once back into the 80 gallon they took another 3 weeks to calm down and drop there guard

so whats my theory your asking? it seems to me larger tanks seem to set off some sort of naturl instinct to be cautious while smaller tanks they are able to feel calmer in maybe becuase well i dont really know. and iont really know if this is true or not but im thinking that by keeping ed alone in that very large tank has seemed to set off a natrual instinct for him to be on guard? im not really sure but i have been keeping up with the tests for the water and it all seems good i even wanted to be sure the test were good so i tested the water i have sitting in a container for a plant in my window (lets jsut say that window water would KILL anythign!) so this is the only thing i can imagine? but i was wondering has anyone else ever noticed anything like this ever happening with there fish? (big tank setting off some sort of stress)

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Hmm.. Sorry I thought I would have more information for you.. I am not sure I plan to move my 2 guppies from 2.5 gallons to 16 gallons eventually but wouldn't have this information for you yet :( sorry I can't be of more help..

I have also dealt with fin rot.. but it was white.. not black?? Strange...

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  • Regular Member

Is there a lot of current in your large tank? I HAVE to baffle all the outflows on my tanks, or my fish hide in the corners and behind plants. I left my FX5 output wide open with no sponge on it for less than 24 hours, and my black butterfly started getting fraying fins from stress. My fish cannot handle a lot of water flow. Because I really don't have a lot of water movement from my filter outputs, I run a huge 24 inch bubble wand to compensate. Happy fish, and plenty of gas exchange. Could this maybe be the problem in your tank?

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Let me start by saying I'm NOT an expert. I can only share my experience with you and maybe spark an idea in someone who knows better. :) I've moved goldfish to progressively larger tanks without noticing changes in behavior. I have noticed that new fish are more skittish until they get to know me. But maybe it's the tank size? Hmmmm.... I do have some fish that are more friendly than others. My Susan refuses to eat out of my hand while the others will. I've had fish get skittish when I've moved them to a smaller quarentine tank, but I don't know if it was tank size or because the fish was sick. Interesting observation.

My fish, Puff, had the entire edges of her tail turn black after I treated my main tank with antibiotics and salt. It wasn't frayed at all, still smooth but just black. It has since returned to normal color. None of the other fish were affected. When I researched it a bit, I found that when goldfish heal, the skin can be black...like a bruise. Has anyone else heard this?

I hope Ed feels better soon.

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@jadafish no problem thanks for reading my super long post anyways!

@klep i doubt the output is too much for him otherwise he wouldnt have torn his fins being so close the the filter intake/output which he was having a grand ole time swimming thru it so its deff not to strong its only been suddenly that he has been nervous of me and the only change has been that hes been left alone in the big tank? like i said hes quite contented in the 10 gallon fins held high not bottom sitting swimming around looking for food. its so strange?

@lorianne yes i was hopeing that the black was where it was healing too becuase this fish is like THEE most accedent prone fish you could ever imagine having ripped some of his scales off mroe times then i care to rember when it heals it turned a brownish black like a scab then disapeared but i was watching a certian spot on his fins where it was a decent sized black circle and within 2 days it had gone from a solid black circle in the fin to a solid black circle with a hole thru it not a tear a hole :( ate a hole right thru the fin.

i keep doing peroxide treatments dabbing some on the black parts with a cotton swab,useing the melefix and salting while he is in the 10 gallon plus doing the daily water changes. im going to beat this no matter what! ive been thru too much with this fish i save him from a crazy lady who kept him in a 1 gallon bowl with 3 other fish to getting cuaght in the tank decorations i had and ripping his scales off,getting caught under the bubble wand getting his scaled rippe off an his tail fins shredded,almost getting his tail cut off from another tank decoration,to blood streaked fins,to getting scewerd thru the gills and out the mouth twice i might add from a plant,getting crushed under a rock that weighed near 5 pounds,surviving living in a 20 gallon tank for 3 years with 3 other fish(before i found kokos!) im NOT letting this ###### fish die! i love him too much

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You know, I really don't know why your fish act that way when you put them in a bigger tank. My only thought though is that if you have a fish that has been healthy and there are behaviorial changes, I would first look to the environment in which the fish is kept.

My first question about the black on the fins would be whether it is from ammonia burns, but you have never indicated you have had ammonia readings in the tank. And I don't know exactly how the fins look.

Just please be very careful if you are going to keep him in a 10 gallon. The water levels can be toxic so quickly.

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i know thats why on the 10 gallon i have one of my bio wheel 400s on there so lets jsut say the tank has MORE then enough filtration.

once his fins are completly healed im going to move him into a net breeder/colender in the 80 gallon for a day or two before releaseing him in maybe that would help? im not sure...

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Oh my gosh! A black circle that ate through and became a hole? That is really scary. The black is throwing me off, because usually with bacterial fin rot, I'd think red/white/pink. Can you take a photo of Ed's fins? A photo can really help. I feel I need to say this again - I'm not a expert or helper - but I've had bad luck with Melefix. It just didn't seem to help much. I've had success with the antibiotic food. If Ed has fin rot, maybe consider giving him that along with great water to aid his healing? You're being such a good fish-mama trying to help Ed. I know how it feels to have your nose pressed up against the tank willing the fish to get better.

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I think its easier to treat/medicate in a smaller tank such as your 10 or 20 gallon. Take care of the fin rot issue first.

As for moving back to the 80 after he has recovered you may want to decorate it with some hiding spots. I think the transition to such a huge tank can cause stress. I've noticed this too when moving one fish to a tank by is self. Usually they do bettr in groups.

The other thing i do is put the fish into a bucket or bag first and float it in the new tank then pour them in the tank as apposed to putting them in directly with a net

Edited by phishnet
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ok so o got some pictues but today he was not doing so good i noticed one of his eyes is a bit swallon on top :( i feel like im getting no where with htis guy! half step forward and 12 back it seems.

most of the black on the fin tips is gone but there still the black on his dorsal fin and on one of the fins on his side (i always forget what those ones are called :/) well hers the pics and i know it isnt amonia burns becuase there would have to be atleast some amonia in the tank to cuase that wouldnt there be??

Picture100.jpg

you can actually see the hole righ thru the dorsal fin

Picture102.jpg

as soon as i do water changes hes really happy looking for food swimming around flareing his fins out very nicley but after a few hours he goes back to sitting :(

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well ive decided this maybe the WORST decision EVER but ive decided to move BOTh fish back into the 80 gallon if they both die well then atleast they will both die happily and comfortabley. i must admit though since moving ed back last night he has completly stopped bottom sitting and is activly looking for food with eddy AND is not spooked about me coming near the tank. so this could have been a really good thing or a really bad thing.

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well theres more black edgeing his fins ALLL of his fins BUT im fairly certian its healing since hes acting almost like his old self again and his eye is not swollen anymore so i think i did the right thing putting him back into the big tank with eddy :)

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