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Really Worried - Dropsy?


bluebird

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Grace: thank you! :D

Update:

She's swimming around reasonably but wasn't quite as active when I put her in the jug for photos - seems a little sluggish and weak. I did put her in a little earlier than yesterday though so that might contribute some (if goldfish can be groggy in the morning? :P). So yeah, a little bit sad seeing her a little less active, but I'll keep an eye on her and see whether she eats later.

Also, the dechlorinator and test kit arrived! so here's the updated parameters (the test kit was a lot of fun btw, felt like a chemist :P, though I did accidently shake nitrate bottle #1 instead of #2 at one point and my pH solution doesn't appear to have a red plastic 'lock')

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[Tank: 0.25ppm / Tub: 0.25ppm]Ammonia Level?

[Tank: 0ppm / Tub: 0ppm]Nitrite Level?

[Tank: 0ppm / Tub: 0ppm]Nitrate level?

[Tank: between 7.4 - 7.6 (tried both pH and high pH tests) / Tub: 7.2]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[7.2]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[API Freshwater Master Test Kit]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[Tank: 73F/ Tub: 77F]Water temperature?

[20G, a year in May :D]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[Tank: filter that came with tank - 550LPH / Tub: Tetra IN600 - 300-600LHP, currently on around 300 LPH]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

[Currently: 30/40% daily for tank and 50% daily for tub / Future: 50% biweekly or 75% weekly]How often do you change the water and how much?

[Yesterday: 30% for tank and 50% for tub]How many days ago was the last water change and how much?

[1 in tank and 1 in tub, both around 6-7cm (I'm useless at estimating)]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[Epsom salt in tub, Tetra Aquasafe will now be used as a water conditioner]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[Peas and flake food. A few flakes each everyday, a pea each every now and then]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[No]Any new fish added to the tank?

[No]Any medications added to the tank?

[Lily: pineconing, curved gills]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[Lethargic but eating]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

So yeah, ammonia levels aren't great! though I've yet to do today's waterchange so that might help?

Pictures:

09.04.11:

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11.04.11

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12.04.11

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13.04.11

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And below is a picture of her gills. I just noticed that the gill flap (operculum?) is curved outwards and was wondering whether it should be like that? I've circled it in the picture below.

CurvedGills.png

Sorry for the huge post! this took ages to write hehe.

Thanks for reading :).

EDIT: looking at the pictures - it just looks like she's getting thinner :( unless she was originally bloated? I'm not sure.

Edited by bluebird
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I wouldn't worry about the gill, some of my fish also have that.

Pity you can't get hold of Metro tho. Jungle AntiParasitic is quite good for dropsy too. I have used it successfully on all my dropsy cases.

She seems much better tho :) She isn't loosing weight right?

I can only recommend maybe not to move her in the glass everyday for pictures, maybe this is also a little too stressful for an already weak fish.

You are doing great tho :)

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Just done a waterchange (with dechlorinator and salt) and she's not doing great at the moment. She seems to have become really weak and is just kind of floating by the plant. Not feeling too optimistic.

I'll see if she eats but I'm not too sure.

Edited by bluebird
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Thank you :)

She didn't seem to respond well to the flakes but they'd disentegrate before I had a proper chance to feed her.

I'll try the peas again and report back.

She also doesn't seem to be passing waste. I haven't seen her do so since she's been in the tub. I'm not sure if that's because she isn't or if I've not seen it though. I'll keep an eye on her around 4.30 as that's usually when they'd go in the tank, as a nice welcome gift for when I came back from college :P.

Thanks for checking in on her :)

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She wouldn't eat the pea pieces. I held them right in front of her but she just kept moving away. She wouldn't come up to the surface either - she always used to come up to the surface at the slightest disturbance.

It was nice to see Rusty enjoying his at least - he's so unbelievably greedy.

Going to go to the store with my grandma now and try feeding her again when I come back. I think otherwise I'd just sit next to the tub sobbing ^^".

Thanks for reading.

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You're doing great, hun. :hug

Keep trying to feed her. I've seen this with many fish who are sick for a long time. They just seem to lose the interest in food for a bit. Maybe because of all their energy going to healing? That's my guess anyway!

It definitely looks like the scales are going down, and don't worry about the gill plate, that won't harm her any.

I'm so glad you got the package with your supplies! That's great news!! Daily waterchanges are definitely the way to go with your ammonia. Could you also check your tap for ammonia? When was the last time you changed your filter media? It's very odd that you have no nitrates...

You can try fosterandsmithaquatics.com for either Jungle anti-parasite meds (with metronidazole) or Hikari brand Metro+ (which is metronidazole powder) but I think for now, you should just stick with the Epsom and heat. The meds will take forever to get to you anyways. That's assuming they even let them through customs.

I'll be checking in on you periodically today (This iphone's gotta be good for something, right? :P:D), so don't hesitate to ask a question!

Thank you for the thought of drawing me a picture! That's so sweet of you. Let's wait until Lily is healed to see if I can earn the picture, though? Ok? :heart

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She wouldn't eat the pea pieces. I held them right in front of her but she just kept moving away. She wouldn't come up to the surface either - she always used to come up to the surface at the slightest disturbance.

It was nice to see Rusty enjoying his at least - he's so unbelievably greedy.

Going to go to the store with my grandma now and try feeding her again when I come back. I think otherwise I'd just sit next to the tub sobbing ^^".

Thanks for reading.

Oh, I'm sorry. Hang in there. You're doing every you could possibly be doing for her!

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Thanks for all the support :)

She still hasn't eaten but I have left the pea piece beside her just incase and will remove it later if it's still there.

I'm glad that the scales appear to be flattening :) and I like the thought that her energy is just being used for healing, lets hope so :).

I was wondering by the way if there's any way I can know whether she's stop being bloated and is now normal or if she is losing weight? no harm in asking anyway ^^.

I thought it was odd too that there's no nitrates - the filter media for the inbuilt filter (currently the only one filtering the tank) was partially replaced a few weeks ago - I replaced the carbon filter pads with wool pads. The filter compartments are now ceramic noodles > sponge filter pad > 2 x thin wool filter pads. There is also a bag of carbon and a bag of crushed coral in there (which I'm wondering whether or not I should take out seeing as the pH is actually okay now?).

The filter in the tub has 4 x sponge filters which haven't been replaced since I got it eurgh.. about 5 months ago? (as I said, useless at estimating :P) but at least two have been rinsed with old tank water.

Tap water ammonia is 0.25ppm - I didn't even known tap water could have ammonia!

Thanks for the website :) I'll keep it in mind should I need it in the future.

Thanks also for the periodic check ups :D it really means a lot :).

Edited by bluebird
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I can't say if this is what's going on for you, but I've noticed that a lot of people who are new to the API drop kits think they are showing .25 ammonia at first. I think at least with some of the kits that color is just really hard to tell. What I did was test a bottle of distilled water to see what color zero should look like to make sure.

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That's a great idea - I did find it hard to discertain some of the colours (the nitrite and nitrate were easy at least!) and was sat briefly transported back to the time I used to make website designs and obsess over which shade out of several nearly identical shades was the perfect one :P. Nightmare hehe. Thanks again, will see if we have any distilled water :).

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Okay, we don't have any distilled/bottled water but I'll get some as soon as I can!

Good news hopefully, my mum has agreed to order in the metronidazole after seeing Lily and it should be in for tomorrow.

I just hope she holds on.

Update on Rusty (something a little more cheerful): he's still playing with one of his pea pieces :P spitting it out and picking it up again. He's so fun to watch.

I was wondering by the way, what are the very first signs of dropsy? I'd just like to be well aware so I can keep an eye on Rusty just incase!

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are the pieces just too big that he is 'working on it'? My little ones do that all the time hehe

For me the first signs have always been a general 'plump' look.

just a thought, it might be easier for you to get Baytril from the vet than anything through Drs.F and S. I get my stuff from there but it takes ages (I just stock it up). I would have sent you some if I knew you needed it!

But if your mom can get hold of Baytril maybe a Baytril bath is a good idea? Just because she isn't eating. My vet gives it to me no problem when I tell her it is for fish.

She isn't showing any redness on her body tho right?

PS: just a thought. Have you tried soaking Lily's food in garlic? Usually that helps get them eat, and garlic is also a good disinfectant for the intestines etc.

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Hehe yes. I've removed the bits left now as he seems to have attacked them sufficiently :P.

Sadly, I've also removed the piece in Lily's tub - she hasn't touched it. She's still moving but doesn't stir unless I get really close to her i.e. a few centimeters. She just kind of 'traps' herself behind the heater or in the plant and stays there. She has shown this behaviour in the past (in the tank) but always stirred and became active again.

Thanks for the sign, hopefully he'll stay healthy!

I've told my mum about the baytril (thanks!) and she said that if the metronidazole doesn't arrive for whatever reason, she'll bring back some baytril so that's good :).

As for redness - the gill flap looks a little pink but I can't be certain how much of that is new as she has always been white with a pink tinge!

That's interesting about the garlic! how would I go about soaking her food in it? I do have a garlic bulb but it's quite old - when does garlic go off? xD

Thank you :)

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When you peel the papery bits off the garlic bulb it should be firm, plump and white - if you squish it there should be juice. Sometimes if I'm desperate I will cut the brown bits off of an otherwise good looking garlic piece. But if its dry and all brown or shriveled then I would say throw it out.

Its easier to soak in garlic juice if you already have a can or jar of minced garlic in juice. Otherwise I would put the garlic cloves in a dish and smash the juice out and rub the pea in that.

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Hehe the garlic bulb was sprouting, nevermind :P

Thanks so much for the tip though! that'll be useful for the future :D

Looks like I'm buying garlic and bottled water tomorrow hehe.

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Yea garlic is really good! It just stinks everything up! :rofl

Let me know if you get the Baytril so I can look up the directions my vet had done for me.

About the peas, do you put them in warm water first, shell them and mush them up a bit?

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Hehe gosh yes - I'm actually terrified of using it most of the time simply because once I get it on my fingers it will stay there for at least a week despite relentless washing and scrubbing! at least I have a garlic crusher now :P

Thank you :) and for the peas - I put them in tub water, microwave for 15 seconds and then unpeel them. I then split them into halves or quarters. I'll try mashing them next time!

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Hehe :P I think they are okay to eat actually in some cases but considering the bulb is really old, I figured I'd best not risk it!

Going to sleep now (10.32pm over here :P) - just done a 40% water change on the main tank and Lily is still hanging in there - bottom sitting and just ..weary, but I'm hoping she isn't suffering too much.

Thanks so much for all your help and support everyone and I'll update when I can :)

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Lily is still alive. She just seems to stay in corners and move ever so slightly every now and then but she's still here.

Either the metronidazole or baytril should arrive later today and I'm going to buy the garlic and bottled water soon.

Not feeling too optimistic after reading lots of online articles that say dropsy is very rare to treat once symptoms show and that even Lily survives, she's like to die soon after. Has anyone ever treated a fish showing symptoms and had them live long afterwards?

Sorry for the depressing update! I'm still going to try the best I can and hope that she's at least not in too much pain.

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Keeping fins crossed for her!

My darling black moor, Dr.House got REALLY bad dropsy last January. She totally recovered and was perfectly healthy for a year. Then she passed this december :( But she had a great life in between for sure :D She was my darling.

I think it is important at this point to get some meds in her tho.

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Bluebird, one of the things I love about this forum is the determination of its members to help their goldfish. I've read many threads with dropsied fish here, and a good number of them were able to treat their fish. It is definitely one of the more difficult conditions to fix, but you are definitely doing exactly what you can to help Lily. The meds coming later today will certainly be of immense usefulness.

How is Lily's condition as pertains to the raised scales?

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