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Really Worried - Dropsy?


bluebird

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Yes, carbon is usually use to remove things like medication. A water change will also do the trick. However, I'm not sure what you should do now that you have it in the water. I hope ryukin girl will see this soon.

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I'm here! Taking a study break! :)

Ok, do a 100% water change ASAP. Get all that medication out. Especially with pine-coned fish sensitivity to stress goes way up. Medication = Stress.

Don't feel too badly. We have all jumped in to medication. It's part of the learning curve. But from now on (and this goes for ALL members) do not add medication unless told by a reputable book, fancier, or an experienced member here.

I guess we will have to wait until tomorrow to get water readings, but we need them. PLEASE do not forget to get them ASAP. (Which is why, as you found out, having your own test kit is much better than relying on the LFS.)

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Don't worry, I don't expect you to be here 24/7 hehe - thanks so much for replying.

Gosh x_x. How do I do a 100% water change? Should I move Lily back into the main tank whilst I do it? and then just empty all the water out and replace it?

Sorry if that sounds really dumb, I'm just unsure of whether moving Lily with some of that water would be bad? or should I try and make sure absolutely none of the tub water is moved into the new tub water?

Gosh, this is all so stressful hehe. I'm so worried about her and keep messing things up! Thanks so much everyone for listening and for all your advice, I'd be a mess without it!

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That's why we're here!

Get a largish tupperware or bowl or something you can scoop her out in. Then empty all the water out of the tub and filter. Add new water, Prime, Epsom...whatever you need to get the water back to what it was MINUS the medication.

When you are ready to put her back in, lift her out of the bowl with your hands (NOT a net) and place her in the new water. None of the old water from the bowl should be transferred. She should NOT be put back in the main tank.

Hope this helps.

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Gosh was that traumatic. Spilled water everywhere, got water on the filter plug (and consequently became very paranoid I'd die of electrocution :P), have lost the air tube for the filter (managaed to cut a substitute out of the air pump line) and looking at Lily is heartbreaking. She didn't even struggle when I held her whilst moving her. I'm not really ready to say goodbye to her yet (or ever!) but I don't want her to suffer either. Will just have to wait and see.

Thanks so much for all your help everyone and I'll keep posting her progress if anyone is interested.

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Thanks again :)

She seems to be doing good this morning. She's swimming around well and ate last night. She also seemed to be doing some 'foraging' on the floor of the tub for more food so that's good :). I'm just really hoping this isn't the usual 'getting better then dying out of nowhere' that seems to happen with pets! Will keep an eye on her and keep hoping :).

Bit worried about the filter though. It's definitely expelling water but I don't really know how effectively it's pulling things in. Debris seems to be caught on the surface of the water and I can't see it getting sucked into the filter. Hopefully it eventually falls to the bottom where it can get sucked in? I don't know, just some morning paranoia to start the day :P.

Will be going to the pet store again soon to get some pH buffer and the relevant tests. I'm assuming I need all three? tub, tank, and tap? will get all three just incase.

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That would be great. Also, if you could take pics tomorrow or the next day at the latest to post, that would be great. That way we can see how well Lily is progressing. Also, make sure to keep the water really clean :)

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I couldn't agree with Alex more. All three tests and a buffer.

As for the filter, have you tried raising the water level? Or is the water already at the top of the tub? Just remember that if you do raise the water level, you need to add the corresponding amount of Epsom to the new water BEFORE it goes in the tub.

EDIT: If you haven't already left for the store, try and find a medicated food with METRONIDAZOLE in it. It's a long shot that your store will have it (UK regulations on pet meds are much stricter than US ones), but it's worth looking for.

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Thanks again to both of you :)

I've added a video below of Lily (with a quick shot of the main tank incase anyone was curious? I'm not really sure why I added it now :P)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdwZafMWffU&feature=youtube_gdata

I also have a picture of Lily from the top, though it's not much different to the one earlier in the thread. Does anyone know what the black dots are? affected cells perhaps?

DSC_0054.jpg

Also been to the store. They don't have any medicated food with antibiotics for the reasons mentioned but my mum works as a vet assistant and says she can possibly have metronidazole ordered for Tuesday earliest. Fingers crossed! I have bought some pH buffer and had the tests done. The results aren't wonderfully helpful - I asked to have them written down and it's all a bit cryptic. From what he said and the results I have, the ammonia/nitrite levels in all three (tap, tank and tub) are all at acceptable levels, and the strips were completely wrong when it came to pH. The tap is 6.8, tank is 7.2 and the tub I'm not really sure - he's not made that very clear, but it was slightly lower than the tap water when he showed me the actual coloured test samples.

Sorry for rather unhelpful test results! but at the very least, they all seem to be in good ranges. Should I still add the pH buffer? (it's a 7.5 pH one) and should I still keep the crushed coral in the tank or is that a buffer also? i.e. it wont let the pH keep rising and rising.

I'm also still a little unsure about water changes. Should I be doing 40-50% bi-weekly changes for the tank and same for the tub? or something different?

Sorry for all the questions! thanks again :)

EDIT: I can't raise the water level (will spill hehe) but will keep an eye on the filter :)

Edited by bluebird
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Hello, I don't think you should add buffer or anything other than the epsom to your tank (and water conditioner/dechlorinator when you do water changes) at the moment. The LFS was not very helpful because they didn't give you exact numbers for the parameters; exact numbers are important, because only then can it give a clearer picture of what's going on with your tanks. I hope your drop test kit will arrive soon :) [The black spots could be signs of ammonia burn healing, or it could be something else. We won't be able to sort it out until we have a clearer idea of the tank condition.]

For the moment, I recommend doing daily 50% water changes, as clean water is always helpful and beneficial to your ailing fish. Just please remember to add water conditioner/dechlorinator and epsom to the new water BEFORE you add to the QT tub, as ryukin girl had indicated in her previous post.

It would be great if your mom can order the metronidazole. It will come in very handy.

What is the temp of your QT tub?

Good luck :)

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I feel terrible but I have to be honest! I ran out of dechlorinator yesterday and with everything being so expensive - I've spent £65 on fish stuff these past two days! - and knowing that the pH buffer here can also be used as dechlorinator, I thought at the store that I could just buy that for the time being instead of more dechlorinator (which I ordered on Sunday and should arrive some time this week). I feel terrible, like I'm totally not listening to you guys! Would the buffer be okay to use as a dechlorinator for the time being? I've used it as one before and have been told its suitable by two pet stores but now I'm kind of worried and wondering whether I should just wait for the dechlorinator to arrive? I'm really sorry!

If it's okay to use, I'll start the water changes as soon as possible. Oh and the tub temperature is 78F now (up 2 from yesterday, which should hopefully end my paranoia that the heater wasn't working :P). Sorry again for the inaccurate test results (I should have asked about them straight away but I didn't check his notes until I had left - very silly of me - and he had given me all three 'tests' for the price of one so that was really nice), hopefully the test kit will arrive very soon. I ordered it yesterday and it says it should arrive within 4-5 days.

Yes, hopefully she can order the metronidazole :) really hoping.

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They CHARGE you to do water tests? That's outrageous, especially because he didn't give you very informative results at all! :o

What buffer do you use? If you can, get your hands a small bottle of Seachem Prime. It's very inexpensive and a small bottle goes a long way. I'm sorry you are spending a lot of money already.

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Hehe you get results for free? that's awesome :D.

Thanks for being so kind despite my mistakes! The buffer is this http://www.aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=83

Should I get the Prime alonsgide the dechlorinator (Tetra Aquasafe) I've already ordered? I will do if necessary but I've already got two online orders arriving and it's going to be hard to explain them to my parents nevermind three xD.

All this hassle and expense is stressful hehe but I guess it's what comes with owning pets and it's definitely worth it :).

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API in general is a very good brand, and it does say that it removes chlorines and chloramines. I'm not sure what to suggest here, so hopefully ryukin girl will see this soon and weigh in.

I wish I had mentioned Prime earlier, since you could have ordered Prime instead of the Aquasafe. Aquasafe is fine to use, but Prime is way better in my opinion because it not only detoxifies chlorines and chloramines but also ammonia & nitrites. Perhaps when you are ready to order water conditioner the next time around, you could order Prime :)

As for making mistakes, that's how we all started out, I believe. I'm really happy to have found this forum, where there are so many knowledgeable and friend goldfish enthusiasts :)

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Thanks again :)

I shall order Prime next time! it does sound like it'd be a better choice.

Thanks for the reassurance :D this forum really is great - you're right about everyone being really friendly!

I'll wait for confirmation before doing the water changes :).

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Hi there, just got back from classes. :)

For the time being, even though it's not ideal, that "buffer" can be used as a dechlorinator. If you look at the back of the bottle, what does it say it's main ingredients are?

The black is most likely from ammonia burns, like Alex said. The only way to get rid of these is through daily water changes. 50% or greater.

Don't forget to add the dechlorinator and Epsom BEFORE adding it to the tub. I know this has been said like three times already, but it's important. We don't want any shock in the tub!

Did they use strips to test you water?

I think at this point, we are going to have just to assume your cycle is not working at all. Which means we are assuming that ammonia is building up very fast. So water changes are extremely important.

Can you please re post the answers to ALL the questions from the top of the page that you can. I know you don't have a test kit, and the store didn't help you very much with the params, but I would like to be able to quickly reference your params. :)

O and thank you for being so cooperative! You wouldn't believe the people we see on here who just don't listen, and do all sorts of silly things! It's so nice to work with someone who listens and takes our advice. :) Well, not that it's nice that you're fish is sick, but you know what I mean! :P

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Thanks so much for both replies :)

ryukin girl: I just wanted to say, it sounds like you're really busy (what do you study by the way?) and it's really humbling that despite that you're taking so much time to help me and other people on here :) thank you :)

I actually can't find the ingredients anywhere! there's this: http://cms.marsfishcare.com/files/msds/proper_ph_75_1223091.pdf but it's really rather lengthy and seems to single out specific ingredients rather than list them all. I'm sorry I can't be much help here!

Ammonia burns? that's awful! I'll go and do a 50% water change now (do you want me to change the water for both the tub and the tank daily?) and will definitely add the salt and dechlorinator first hehe. Thanks for ensuring I don't forget!

They appeared to used the API master kit judging by the cards they compared the results with (the results were coloured water in little tubes) but he only showed me the ammonia and pH results and said all three were fine. I feel so stupid not trying to get better/more concise results but I'm terrible at confrontation!

Parameters:

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[N/A]Ammonia Level?

[0mg/l]Nitrite Level?

[0mg/l]Nitrate level?

[6.4]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[N/A]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[Tetra, strips]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[N/A]Water temperature?

[20, a year]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[Tank filter: 550lph (litres per hour) TetraTec IN600: 300-600lph]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

[Once a week, 15-20%]How often do you change the water and how much?

[A few days ago, 15-20%]How many days ago was the last water change and how much?

[2, around 5-6cm each in length including tail]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[Tetra Aquasafe, carbon in filter]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[Tetra Goldfish, twice a day]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[No]Any new fish added to the tank?

[No]Any medications added to the tank?

[bloated, 'popped out' scales, white dots on fins, red eyes]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[A little sluggish but still eating]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Results from store:

Said aammonia and pH levels were fine in all three (tank, tub, tap)

And aww, thanks so much for the last few lines :) I was starting to worry I was getting too many things wrong and looked like I wasn't listening with all my mistakes but it means a lot to know I'm not doing too badly!

Thanks again :)

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Hi again :) That's what we're here for. We all joined because we love goldfish, and want to help others :) (I am studying classical orchestral music, btw :) )

Ok, I see that the "buffer" uses thiosulfate salt, I think. This, I'm pretty sure, is the dechlorinator. So at least we know that it does indeed take out the chlorine. But as soon as you get your parcel, make sure you begin using only the dechlorinator from there, not the "buffer."

Ok, so they did use drop test kits....do you remember the COLOR of the ammonia vial? If it was API I could possibly tell you the amount of ammonia (I've done so many tests, I don't even use the cards anymore!).

It was probably one of the colors I wrote this sentence in.

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Thanks again :D and your (degree?) sounds amazing :D.

Just changed the water in the tub (added the salt and dechlorinator first :P) and will do the tank after this - sorry for asking whether I should by the way, I'm guessing the 'never change more than 50% of the water a week' thing is actually a myth?

The colour for all three was generally a light yellowy orange. Sorry, that's really subjective hehe but I'm hoping it's some help!

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They were all the same color? O you mean the three different samples all showed the same ammonia color. Gotcha!

That doesn't sound like API then. API uses a yellow-green scale for Ammonia. Darn, I was hoping I would be able to guess.

"Never change more than 50% a week" is definitely a myth. There are actually people I know who have "continuous exchange" system that change out 200-300% of the water a day.

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