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Really Worried - Dropsy?


bluebird

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Thank you :).

Rusty is doing okay. He's still active but is bottom sitting a little and seems to end up in a particular corner after a while of activity. He does 'snap out of it' every now and then and swims around but it's still hard watching him when he just lies on the bottom. Reminds me too much of Lily. He still responds to food and has eaten.

Will update with parameters when I can. Thanks for checking in :).

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at what point in meds are you? are you giving them to him via food or water at this point?

are you keeping up with the water changes?

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I have about 1/3 bottle of meds left and I'm still doing daily water changes (though I didn't do a water change two days ago to check whether the pH remained stable). The meds are administered via water but, if the vet knows how, should hopefully by administered by food soon. I started the course last Thursday.

EDIT: I saw you mention in another thread that you feel lots of water changes is best for dropsy cases. Hopefully I can give him the meds by food soon and do more water changes.

Edited by bluebird
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at what point in meds are you? are you giving them to him via food or water at this point?

I think that since Rusty is still eating, it might be advantageous to introduce metro into his food so he can start getting metro orally, if possible.

Hang in there Rusty!

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Hopefully I can give him the meds via food soon, it seems like it's much more effective.

I've done a little video of Rusty and his behaviour. (Hopefully!) you can see how he lies in the corner, but will 'snap out of it' whenever I lift the lid (probably associated it with food :P) or come very close. I'm not sure how worried to be but he wasn't doing this before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEeO3gNm_rE&feature=youtube_gdata

I've also been reminded by dnalex's thread (thank you!) about the epsom. I've been using it for 8 days now so should I stop putting it in?

Sorry for all the questions, and thanks for reading :).

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Please don't apologize for your questions! They are all relevant to treating your fish, and that is very important!

My understanding is that Epsom salt can only be used safely for eight consecutive days, but I would like for someone to confirm this for me. In the event that we don't hear from a mod/experienced member regarding Epsom, I would discontinue it, at least for a few days before adding it back in if it's deemed necessary. I think that oral administration is the way to go, so hopefully you can have to sorted out ASAP.

Byakuya was in so many ways very similar to Rusty in her behavior prior to separation and treatment; she would hover near the bottom of the tank in a corner until I add food, at which point she starts to frantically knock everyone out of her way lol.

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Thanks so much :D.

I shall stop putting in the epsom, I'm so glad your thread reminded me! and I've actually just found a book with dosage instructions in. It says metronidazole can be used in food at 1% for hexamitiasis in cichlids and gouramies so I'm wondering whether that can apply to goldfish too. I'm also very unsure at how to give such a low dose.

The metronidazole I have is in liquid form and it says there is 200mg in 5ml. The book also says that either a gel food can made to mix in antibiotics but I don't have the ingredients, or that flake foods can simply be mixed with the drug in question and solidified. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if that could apply to both liquid and powdered metronidazole.

Sooo.. I don't know whether it's worth mixing the liquid metronidazole with some flakes (I've no idea how to get a 1% dosage with such small amounts of flake food unless I can mix a lot together and then store it?) or whether to let it be 'absorbed' by the pellets I have (which is also mentioned as a suitable method in the book). So yes, I'm very confused hehe. I'm also not sure how I would 'solidify' the flake mix if I made it and the pellet idea would still have the problem of dosage - how to accurately measure 1%.

I really, really hope all of that makes some sense to someone hehe as I'm really quite lost! and too afraid to do anything without confirmation ^^". I'm also panicking because the metronidazole isn't pure - it's got ethanol in, and even orange flavouring. It doesn't seemed to have been any harm yet but I feel such an idiot for not noticing. It's meant for oral use in both humans and animals I presume.

Thanks so much for reading ^^".

Edited by bluebird
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I hope the vet can get back to you with helpful instructions. However, in the absence of that, I would imagine that soaking the flakes or pellets in the metro would definitely be enough.

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Thanks ^^

I've tried my best to do some calculations of the dose but I'm awful at maths in the best of circumstances so I have no chance when I'm stressed and worried :P.

Okay, so there's 200mg in 5ml. So there's 40mg in 1ml and 10mg in 1/4ml. To mix with flakes at 1%, I think I should mix the 1/4ml with 1g of flakes (10mg is 1% of 1g). I hope so anyway =/. I still have no idea how to measure 1g accurately (I have a syringe that can measure small amounts) so I'm wondering whether it would be best to mix a larger amount together then store it somehow =/.

Also, would I just mix it then feed or let it combine somehow? I am so sorry for all these questions. I know people have said it's okay but I feel terrible!

Thank you!

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I think your calculation is ok. Just make sure that the food is soaked thoroughly prior to feeding them. It may also be advantageous to feed multiple small meals each day. With Byakuya, I am feeding her 3x day. Please let us know how goes.

Rusty, eat up your medicated food and get better!

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Thank you :D. I'll have a go with both the flakes and pellets (soaking them), see how they go and if the meds soak in properly I'll try and feed him. I'll have to do my best with the measuring - it definitely won't be 100% accurate but I can try!

Thanks again, I appreciate your help a great deal.

Edited by bluebird
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Thank you :D. I'll have a go with both the flakes and pellets (soaking them), see how they go and if the meds soak in properly I'll try and feed him. I'll have to do my best with the measuring - it definitely won't be 100% accurate but I can try!

Thanks again, I appreciate your help a great deal.

I wouldn't worry about being 100% accurate here. Just make sure to soak the food so as to maximize the amount of meds going in to Rusty. Metronidazole is a relatively safe compound to use, and overdosing requires taking 30x-50x the dosage in one setting. I don't think you need to worry about this :)

The person doing all the hard work is you! I hope for the best, and given that Rusty is still eating, it's a really good sign.

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Phew, thank you hehe :P. Eventually measured 10g in teaspoons then figured out 1g from that i.e 2 teaspoons was 10g, 20% of 1 teaspoon was 1g. I know, it takes a while for common sense to hit me :P.

Decided to use pellets in the end. They appear to definitely be coated by the meds but I'm not sure how much they've absorbed :P. At least a little I'd say. How long should I leave them to soak?

Thank you :) but I still really appreciate it - I've asked a lot of questions yet you and others have taken so much time to answer them, and quickly too. I'm so grateful for that! I just hope that all of this culminates in Rusty getting better!

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Thank you! was a bit confused after reading things that say to soak food for hours/overnight hehe. Will try and feed him now :).

EDIT: He ate one ^^. Will feed him another later on :).

Edited by bluebird
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Just an idea. what if we try and remove him and place him in a plastic tub with the filter and bubbler? In case it is something in the gravel which is irritating him the clean tub would probably help?

good job with the food. It gets absorbed much better than via water :)

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Thank you for checking in :). I have considered that too but I'm just so wary after Lily. I know it's 99% likely the tub arrangement had nothing to do with it but associations are made sometimes! I really don't know. I'm also scared of whether that might stress him more. It's so hard to know what is the best thing to do hehe =/.

There's only a small amount of gravel still in there but, ugh, I don't know hehe.

Decisions, decisions :wacko:

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Just done a 60% water change, only adding dechlorinator to the new water. Rusty is doing well - it's nice watching him scavenge in the gravel after a water change :P.

Checked the parameters before changing the water and they were all good ^^:

Temperature: 79F

pH: 7.4-7.6

Ammonia: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 0ppm

Hopefully he'll start to get better now he's recieving the meds orally. Fins crossed :).

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Thank you :)

Rusty is doing okay. He's still predominantly in his corner but does swim out of it when I lift the lid/come close. He has eaten some med soaked food and I'll give him some more later. Just really hoping I'm not too late with the food =/ but he does seem to still eat very eagerly so ..hopefully!

Will do a water change and check parameters sometime later.

Thanks for reading :).

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What great news! As long as he is eating and as long as the conditions have not worsened, that is excellent, especially now that you are able to deliver the meds to him orally. Please keep us updated?

How does he look? Has he gotten more/less bloated? How are the scales? Also, I just wanted to make sure that you aren't giving him any more Epsom. :)

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Thank you :D.

I was a bit too scared to look at him earlier but I've had a little look and his scales might actually have flattened a little - it definitely is more difficult telling whether they're sticking out at least. So yeah, that's really nice :D. Im just confused by how he can be so sedentary in his corner then become so perky once he snaps out of it =/.

I'm really hoping he pulls through. He's so cheeky, greedy and opportunistic yet I love him all the more for it hehe.

I'm not sure how bloated he is. His underside is still a little ridged so he must still be somewhat bloated. Oh and no, I haven't put any more epsom in hehe - thanks for making sure :).

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Thank you for the suggestion! I have actually had the light off a little more after fearing it was heating the tank too much, but I haven't had it off much more. He still lies in the corner when the tank lights are on but he does appear to be more active when they're on, or at least he's pretty active at the moment, so maybe you're right!

Thanks again :D.

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