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Really Worried - Dropsy?


bluebird

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[N/A]Ammonia Level?

[0mg/l]Nitrite Level?

[0mg/l]Nitrate level?

[6.4]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[N/A]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?

[Tetra, strips]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

[N/A]Water temperature?

[20, a year]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

[Tank filter: 550lph (litres per hour) TetraTec IN600: 300-600lph]What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

[Once a week, 15-20%]How often do you change the water and how much?

[A few days ago, 15-20%]How many days ago was the last water change and how much?

[2, around 5-6cm each in length including tail]How many fish in the tank and their size?

[Tetra Aquasafe, carbon in filter]What kind of water additives or conditioners?

[Tetra Goldfish, twice a day]What do you feed your fish and how often?

[No]Any new fish added to the tank?

[No]Any medications added to the tank?

[bloated, 'popped out' scales, white dots on fins, red eyes]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

[A little sluggish but still eating]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Basically, I'm really worried that one of my fish (Lily) has dropsy. Her scales appear to be 'popping out' and her eyes are red. I feel sick as I really don't wan't to lose her! is salt the best option? Sorry for the short post, bit too panicky to write properly! Thanks for reading and for any advice.

DSC_0039.jpg

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Yep, she has dropsy. I've treated this many times before and the latest time with success. You need to move her into a qt tank that is at least 10 gallons and take cycled media from your main tank to add to your qt. Add 1/4 teaspoon epsom for every 10 gallons of water. Then slowly, over the course of many hours, raise the temp to 78*. I would also start her on metro meds or jungle antiparasitic food asap.

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The things I notice right away is that this might be caused by bad water quality. 2 in 20 gallons is possible, but needs extra care.

A 20 gallon tank is recommended to house only one fish, and even then you are supposed to change a minimum of 50% of the water weekly. The filtration is also to weak. A 20 gallon tank, that is about 78 liters. 10 times filtration, that means you need a minimum of 780lph if you have only one fish in this tank.

Because of that the parameters seem off to me. Having no nitrate in the tank is more or less only possible if you either just did a 100% water change right before testing, or have a lot of live plants in your tank, or your tank is not cycled :(

Also try to find out the ammonia asap.

What you should do right now is doing two 75% water changes back to back to get the water as clean as possible. Then add 1/4 teaspoon of espon salt to the tank (dissolved before adding). This will hopefully reduce the dropsy a little bit for now.

From now on, instead of changing 15-20% of the water weekly, try to do two weekly of 40-50%. Also try to get a larger, stronger filter or add a second filter. If you can, a larger tank of 120liter or more would be great. If not, you will have to stick to two bi-weekly water changes to keep the fish healthy :)

Edited by Oerba Yun Fang
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Hello, it does look like your telescope is showing the beginning of dropsy. Do you have another tank and/or foodsafe container 10gallons or larger that you can use as QT? I would think the first thing to try to is use Epsom salt and heat to help the bloating go down. Regardless, setting up the QT, with proper filtration is the first order of business regardless of treatment stratagem. So, please try to set that up, and once you have done so, please post back. Hopefully, some experienced member will be along to help. I'm just trying to get you started :)

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Thanks for replying. I feel so useless and not cut out for this! Actually sat here in tears I feel so awful about it.

I sadly don't have an extra tank. The only extra one is just under 5 gallons.

I'm going to order some Epsom salt online and set up the heater. So 78F should be okay?

Are those foods mentioned available for purchase in the UK?

Thanks Fang. I am starting to regret putting two fish in there! whilst I feel it's better for them socially, it's caused so much hassle.

I feel the readings aren't correct no, the strips just aren't accurate enough.

I'll see if I can order a test kit online, do you recommend any?

I shall do those water changes in the morning first thing (it's 10 to 12 over here and I'd wake everyone up!)

Thanks so much for your input and sorry for the questions, just so worried hehe =/.

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You should be able to get epsom salts from any pharmacy or grocery store.

I also would try your best to remove the fish. You don't want to treat the other fish as well since he/she doesn't need it. It might make treatment for the other fish less effective should you need to treat him later.

The best kit is API freshwater masters kit.

And I don't know about the food in the UK. Perhaps google metro food uk to see if anything pops up.

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Thank you again. I'll have a look tomorrow then if I can get the Epsom salts from the supermarket.

Would it be worth buying a 10 gallon tank? I'm really not sure how soon I could get one and my parents already think my initial fish tank is excessive. If I could get one, would it be okay if I just put some media in from my old tank?

I can't order the medicated foods to the UK and am struggling to find a UK replacement.

Thanks about the kit, will order that now :).

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I really have to sleep now hehe but just incase anyone's interested - I've put in the heater, ordered a test kit online and will be buying the Epsom salts tomorrow. Will also do the two water changes tomorrow and look for a QT tank - I'm not hopeful about that but I'll my best to find one.

Thanks for all your help and sorry for my panicking!

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You don't have to buy an actual fish tank, but a plastic storage bin of equal or greater volume would be just as effective, and much cheaper.

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Hi there! You have gotten really great advice so far.

I just wanted to pop in here and say the in addition to the heater and Epsom, you might want to think about getting a medicated food. Something with METRONIDAZOLE in it will do wonders for the pineconing.

Keep us updated. :)

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Yeah i would agree for sure with Calluna about the plasic food storage tub. It's so much easier than getting an actual tank since it is way cheaper and may be more available if you live in a small town(not sure about that) and they also don't break so easily when you store them :)

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Read on the goldfishconnection site they sell some pretty highly recommend meds for this. Maybe you should give them a shot??

Unfortunately, Rick doesn't ship to the UK. So the OP is trying to find a UK replacement for metro food.

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Not sure if this is correct, but is a pH of 6.4 a bit low for goldfish? :unsure:

Yes, although goldfish can tolerate that pH, the optimal pH for them is around 7.6. You should try to bring that pH up by using crushed coral and adding it to your filter. You can put 1/2 cup crushed coral into some sort of mesh bag into the filter.

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if you can get your hands on some flagyl, that would be fantastic.. the med doesn't need to come in food form, just so long as you have meds. check with the drug store, not sure if you can get this over the counter or if you need a prescription for it.. Flagyl 400mg's active ingredient is metronidazole, this is the metro meds that other members speak of but in human tablet form.. by knowing the exact amount of water you have in the qt tank/tub we will be able to guide you on dosage. this is why it is important that the two fish are seperated, the "well" fish should not be exposed to the medicine.

the dropsy would be at begining stages if the pineconing was affecting the gill area. fact, the entire body of the fish is pineconed, therefore we are beyond begining stage, but still workable.

when and if you move your fish, you need to know exactly how much volume of water it's in.. even if you have to measure it with a measuring jug when you fill the container/tank.. this will be very important to know so that we do not overdose with meds & epsom..

heating is great.. a good sign that you fish currently has not progressed to popeye and i can see that the gills are a great colour at the moment.

now, this will be a progression thing and we can't promise the result that you are ultimately wanting.. but with good solid advice, we will give it our best shot..

with the testing of the water, you should be able to take a sample down to your LFS tomorrow to which they will test for free or for a small fee. if you can get a sample of your tap water tested too, that would be ideal. remember to mark the containers of which one is which so that we don't get the results mixed up. we need these results as soon as possible and more importantly before the meds (if they cannot be got asap), the epsom salt.. salt will reduce the fluids currently trapped in the fish's body & organs.

whilst you're at the LFS tomorrow, also look at buying a bag of crushed coral & some PH buffer (must say buffer) we need to get your PH over 7.2 minimum and maximum 8.4

the tub you use will need to be of a food safe tub and one not previously used for chemical mixing or detergents.

best of luck & post back when you can..

Edited by stakos
added more info
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Thanks so much for replying everyone, just wish I'd seen stakos' post before I left because I didn't take a water sample with me - I've ordered a test kit online though which should hopefully arrive soon.

I have bought a tub (around 32-35 litres - not ideal but better than nothing), have put the TetraTec IN600 filter in the tub, the heater, a thermometer and split the air pump so that half goes in the tank and half in the tub. There's also a plant in there, maybe to add some familiarity? Picture below:

DSC_0047.jpg

Is the filter okay positioned diagonally? I couldn't fit it in otherwise!

I have also bought some Epsom salt. It says Magnesium Sulphate 100% so should it be okay? what dose should I use? I was also told to buy Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria at the pet store. This is a link to it: http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/interpet-anti-internal-bacteria-100ml-p-2706.html . Do you think it's worth using?

I'm not sure what to do now. When should I add Lily? (the fish in question) and when should I add the salt or medication?

Thanks so much for all your help and sorry for all the questions. I'm just so worried and unsure of what to do.

EDIT: I do actually have crushed coral in the tank, and I'm not really sure why it doesn't work! does it need to be in the filter? as its currently under an ornament at the minute. The low pH could also be an unaccurate reading by the test strips. Also, I have done one 40-50% water change (this morning) and will do another now.

Edited by bluebird
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Hello, the tub looks great actually, and it will be fine. I'm not sure about the filter - is it pulling in & expelling water? I think that as long as you've added water conditioner/dechlorinator, you can place your dropsied fish in the tub. The dosage of Epsom to use is 1/4 teaspoon for every ten gallons. Since your tub comes about to about 8 gallons, you should add about 1/6 of a teaspoon.

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Thanks so much for the quick reply :). The filter is expelling water yes. Should I place Lily in a bag first and then let water in over an hour or two? or just put her in? and thanks for the dosage, should I add that now or when she's in? I'm guessing it doesn't matter too much actually hehe but just incase :D.

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It doesn't matter when you add the Epsom, I guess. My question for you is this - is this filter brand new? Are you using any of the filter media from the filter on your tank? If you aren't, then your QT is uncycled, which isn't a problem. It just means that you'll need to be doing daily water changes to make sure that there isn't any accumulation of ammonia & nitrites.

Is the water of the tank and tub the same temperature? If so, you can transfer her over. You want to avoid a temperature shock. Also, don't use a net. You can just scoop her up gently with your hand. Of course, when you do this, use some sort of container filled with tank water to place her in and transport her to the tub.

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The filter has been moved from the original tank (which is now underfiltered at 550lph for 90 litres but it's the best I can do for now!) so it has filter media inside. Thanks, I'll check the temperatures and if they're okay, will add the Epsom and Lily and will report back :). Thank you :).

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Hi there, sorry for my rather short reply last night. I was on the verge to going to bed, but wanted to post.

DO NOT add that medication you bought. I have done research on it and cannot find the active ingredient ANYWHERE so in the absence of information you should forgo the medication.

Have you added Lily into the tub? What is the temperature?

Can you please head back to the petstore and take a sample of both your tank water (from both tanks) and your tap water. Remember to write down the EXACT numbers. And while you're there you can return the medication you bought. :)

Don't worry about under filtering your main tank for a few weeks. Just step up the water changes and it should be fine.

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It's okay, I really appreciate any help :).

Cue more stress - I've already added the medication. It said it was good for dropsy and I guess I was drawn in by that - desperation? Darn. Will it harm her? I feel so stupid!

I've added Lily and the temperature appears to be around 76F.

The pet store is closed now (4.47pm over here) but would tomorrow be okay?

For water changes, how much should I change in both tanks now? 40-50% bi-weekly for main and the same for the tub? Sorry again, just so much information to process hehe =/.

Gosh I'm exhausted from all this worrying and stressing :P learnt a hard lesson in being prepared at the very least.

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Hello, I've forgotten to ask, but do you have carbon in your filter, or do you use filter cartridges that contain carbon? If you do, then the medication is likely going to be absorbed by the activated charcoal. I'm not sure what you should do about the med that is already in the tub. I think that you should remove it and just go with epsom/heat alone, but I think this is something you should definitely wait for ryukin girl.

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