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Burst Cyst?


Lorianne1227

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[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level? 0

[*]Nitrite Level? 0

[*]Nitrate level? 20ppm mg/L same as tap water

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? pH 8.4, Kh 300ppm, GH 0ppm, chloramines?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Same as tank

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? 'Quick Dip' test strips and API drop ammonia test

[*]Water temperature? 72 degrees F kept that way with a heater

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?55 gallon running for about 5 years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquaclear 110 and Aquatech 30-60

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? Every 4-7 days about 40%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 6 goldfish - 4 about 2 1/2 inches from nose to end of tail, 1 about 4 inches, 1 about 6 inches.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? 'Stress coat' water conditioner and aquarium salt

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Pro-gold for breakfast - soaked in a dixie cup of water to soften, homemade gel food (two flavors!) 3-4 times a week - I hold it under the water and they eat from my hand. (Just started Pro-gold and gel last week - before that they ate once a day Tetra flakes or Aqueon Goldfish granules). Occasionally lettuce and oranges.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? Two Orandas last week. Salt-dipped, but not quarantined

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? A white pimple-like lump and one raised scale

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Swimming slower than usual.

I've had my Ryukin, Puff, for 6 months. Two days ago I noticed a small swelling on her left side. It quickly formed into a more defined lump under the scale, finally pushing the scale up and rising like a volcano to become a white pimple. After researching the site, I netted Puff and put her in my 'quarantine tank' which is...um....a plastic bucket with 1 gallon of water scooped out of my main tank. When I checked on her two hours later, the smooth pimple top now appeared ragged...like a little feather.

I know my quarantine situation is not desirable. Should I put fresh tap water in the bucket? Age tap-water overnight? Continue to use new tank water every day? I know water quality is very important. I haven't put in any salt or medication. Should I use antibiotic food? I appreciate any help/tips. Thanks!

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Well, first of all, like you said your QT set up is not ideal.. lol (But hey.. this is someone who once had 3 goldfish in a 3 gallon bowl!)

That tiny bucket is going to end up stressing out the fish, and water quality is going to be so bad in there that the problems are going to become worse. The GOOD NEWS is, setting up a QT can be easy and cheap. Just get yourself a new rubbermaid container for a few bucks and you can use that. If you use tap water with a water conditioner you don't have to let the water sit for 24 hours. Just make sure the temperature is the same as the temp of the water the fish is in now.

You DID good by separating the fish. If it's a burst cyst it could release all sorts of bad bacteria.= into the water and infect the other fish. To be clear, it burst in the Qt correct??

There is a good chance the new fish being added without QT could be a culprit here and in the future its sooo important to QT each and every time. But now thats its been done, we just need to treat ALL the fish like you would new fish in a QT which means salt and prazi... Two wonderful remedies for Goldfish that are safe and easy and kill most parasites and help against diseases and bad bacteria.

You will want to treat the fish that had the cyst, but ALSO the main tank.

Prazi can be ordered online:

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12098

And salt can be picked up at a pet store. Here is a link on salting "how to"

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/60876-using-salt/

I wouldnt start any antibiotic food for now, but it doesn't hurt to have it on hand.. Your tank is a little bit overstocked. Nothing major compared to some of the tanks we've seen on here. I would probably lean towards a 50% water change each time just to help keep the nitrates a little bit lower.. I would watch the slow swimming. Could be a sign of parasites BUT hopefully with the salt and prazi you can eliminate those.. Prazi must be used multiple times.. (personally I do a dose every 2-3 days with a 50% water change before each dose.. and I do it at least 5 times).. Salt needs to be in the water for at least 2 weeks @ 0.3% but the salt link explained all of that..

Are any of the other fish showing bumps?

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Yes, the cyst burst while Puff was in the bucket. I went to the store today to buy a 5 gallon tank for a quarantine tank. I got it home and it was cracked so I returned it. They didn't have anymore. We're currently having a snowstorm here, so I moved Puff to a clear plastic tub with 3 gallons of tap water, water conditioner, and aquarium salt. Before I moved her, I tried to take a photo. I lifted her out of the water twice and she was kind of floaty after that, so I took some through the side of the plastic. She's not floaty anymore. None of the other fish have bumps.

IMG_4622.jpg

This is a close-up of her left side.

IMG_4620.jpg

Puff with the burst cyst barely visiable. She's white and the stuff is white. Halfway from her orange gills and the roundness of her back end is a little thread. The tiny dots on her fins are bubbles from the water in the new bucket.

Edited by Lorianne1227
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Here is the update. Puff has been sitting on the bottom of the quarantine bucket since last night. I tried to feed her some peas, but she wouldn't eat. She didn't eat anything yesterday either. There is a two-inch long...um....poop...in the tank. It's very thin and white with some grayish smudges. I read the Goldfish poop article on the main site. There were no air bubbles, but it was already out of the fish and on the bottom on the bucket. Would the air bubbles disapear? How do I know if this is a 911 situation or not?

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my goldies get these cysts from time to time. I found that soaking their food in garlic and boyds vitachem and feeding them often rapidly shrinks the cyst before it has a chance to burst. This will also reduce stress on the fish by not moving him to a qt tank (which is necessary in some cases but if you catch it early i feel it can be avoided )

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my goldies get these cysts from time to time. I found that soaking their food in garlic and boyds vitachem and feeding them often rapidly shrinks the cyst before it has a chance to burst. This will also reduce stress on the fish by not moving him to a qt tank (which is necessary in some cases but if you catch it early i feel it can be avoided )

Could you explain how you soak the food? Put garlic in water with the food? Do they eat the garlic too? Puff seems to be stressed in the quarantine tank.

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Update...Puff either balancing upright at the top of the water or sitting on the bottom. She isn't swimming normally all around the tank. She still isn't eating. No more poop in the bucket. Is this two different conditions (constipation + burst cyst) or are the symptoms part of a more horrible disease? Should I put Epsom salt in the water? Medicine? Prazi is ordered, but not here. How do I know when to start a new thread? Are people still reading this one? I'm feeling very lost....

Edited by Lorianne1227
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Update...Puff either balancing upright at the top of the water or sitting on the bottom. She isn't swimming normally all around the tank. She still isn't eating. No more poop in the bucket. Is this two different conditions (constipation + burst cyst) or are the symptoms part of a more horrible disease? Should I put Epsom salt in the water? Medicine? Prazi is ordered, but not here. How do I know when to start a new thread? Are people still reading this one? I'm feeling very lost....

Could you fill in the questions at the top again?

It is possible that the water is not 100% and Puff is reacting on that. How much salt do you have her in?

How does the burst cyst looks like? still leaking or more like a small scrape?

Edited by Quasi
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Update...Puff either balancing upright at the top of the water or sitting on the bottom. She isn't swimming normally all around the tank. She still isn't eating. No more poop in the bucket. Is this two different conditions (constipation + burst cyst) or are the symptoms part of a more horrible disease? Should I put Epsom salt in the water? Medicine? Prazi is ordered, but not here. How do I know when to start a new thread? Are people still reading this one? I'm feeling very lost....

Could you fill in the questions at the top again?

It is possible that the water is not 100% and Puff is reacting on that. How much salt do you have her in?

How does the burst cyst looks like? still leaking or more like a small scrape?

Here are the results from the quarantine tank:

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level? Less than 20 ppm mg/L

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Ph 8.4, KH 300, GH between 25 and 75 ppm, chloramines?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Same

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Quick Dip test strips and API drop kit for Ammonia

[*]Water temperature? 68 degrees F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 3 gallon quarantine bucket. Been in use for 2 days.

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? No filter

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? 97% water change every day. I scoop Puff out with a big bowl, then pour her and the water back into the quarantine bucket when it's ready.

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 fish at about 2 1/2 inches including tail.

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? Stress Coat water conditioner. Today I added about 1/2 teaspoon Epsom Salt when I changed the water. Yesterday I had her in Aquarium salt of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon.

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? Yesterday, pea-flavored gel fish food. She wouldn't eat it. Today a plain smushed-up baby pea. She wouldn't eat it.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank? No

[*]Any medications added to the tank? The quarantine tank, no. There were two new fish added to the main tank before Puff fell ill.

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? I can see where the cyst was, but it's not red or pink. Kind of looks like a hunk of scale is missing. Not leaking, more like a scrape.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Not eating. Sitting on the bottom. This morning Puff was hovering mostly upright near the top, maybe slightly head-down, but not swimming around normally.

I know I must be doing something wrong, but I can't figure it out. I'm working on getting a larger quarantine tank and I've learned my lesson about quarantining new fish. I guess I thought salt-dipping the new orandas would be enough. I guessed wrong! Help, I'm so new!

Edited by Lorianne1227
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It's good that you ordered the prazi. And yesterday you salted but the amount of salt was not enough.. Follow the link I provided on how to salt.. In short you start off with one teaspoon per gallon. Then slowly increase until you are at three teaspoons per gallon. This is aquarium salt not epsom salt... You need to salt the main tank AND the fish that is sick...

Epsom salt IS good for floaty fish, (the dosing is TOTALLY different) but personally I think in this case I would go with the regular aquarium salt... The fact that the issues showed up right after the new fish were added implies to me that there is a good change the new fish brought parasites and disease. And for that you really need the regular salt... Then also prazi on both the main tank and for Puff once it arrives..

The poop that is long and stringy could be stress poop. Fish do this often when they are sick.. It could also be a sign of digestive trouble.. Again, personally I think the first thing we need to rule out here is parasites, which means salt and prazi...

You REALLY need to get her in something larger than that bucket.. Something bigger than you can put a filter on... And until then you need to get the water circulating by adding an air stone or something.

It's good that you are doing daily water changes that large because if you weren't the water in that bucket would become toxic pretty fast. I still suggest something larger. Like A 10 gallon QT tank or rubbermaid, and get a small filter that you can add. YOu can put some of the media from the main tank in the new filter to help it cycle a bit faster..

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Ok. I will start the 3x12 hour aquarium salt dosing tonight on the main tank. I'll also dose the quaratine bucket. I will buy a 10 gallon tank tomorrow. I want Puff to have the best care. With the salt, do I still keep the carbon filters in? I will until someone tells me to take them out. I just read the "How to salt" link. How long do I leave the tank at 0.3% concentration?

Do I still try to feed Puff peas? She hasn't eaten since Saturday. How long can she not eat and still be ok? Oh my gosh! Why didn't I quarantine my new fish??? Thank you so much for your patience with me!

Edited by Lorianne1227
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You can keep the carbon in with the salt, but you will need to take the carbon out when you get the prazi and add that....

One the salt is at 0.3% it should stay at that level for two weeks at least. During that time you will still need to do water changes, so keep in mind that when you are removing water, you are also removing salt. So for every gallon of water to take out, you are taking out 3 teaspoons of salt and that needs to be added back after the water change is complete.

Yes you should keep trying to feed peas or anytthing else your fish normally eats to see if you can get him to eat something.. If you are comfortable handling her you could try to plop a small piece of pea in her mouth... When I have a sick fish who wont eat, I always try to gently guide them toward food. Get their mouth right on the food basically, and see if they will take it in. They usually spit it out but if you can get a little in thats good! Fish can go a long time without food. You would be surprised... Of course I would love to see Puffs appetite increase..

Don't be too hard on yourself about not quarentining. We've all done it. We've all been in the same exact boat as you! I think its one of those mistakes you kinda have to make in order to learn you know?? And thats all you can do.. Learn from your mistakes.... And you are doing a good job trying to make things better!:)

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Thank you for the kind words CountryLovah! I've said it before and I'll say it again...I'm so glad I found this site. This morning Puff was swimming instead of sitting or floating! Yea! I gave her a piece of soaked progold, but she didn't seem to care. The new 10 gallon quarantine tank is set up with the second dose of salt. I did the first dose last night at 10pm, second dose this morning around 10pm. I put a carbon filter that had gunk on it from the main tank and put it in the new filter. It's sticking out the top because it's too big, but I figure that's ok. The new filter is rattling, which is troublesome. I need to look into that. I transfered Puff to the new tank about 10 minutes ago. She's swimming around looking at the silk plants and rocks I scattered in there.

The burst cyst area now has a little nub sticking out of it. Leaking again? The nub is frayed and moves gently in the water like seaweed when Puff is moving. I tried to get pictures. Hmmm..I'll try again with more light. Arg! It's easiest to see from behind and Puff is being uncooperative. I'll try again after lunch.

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Evening update: Puff is swimming around the quarantine tank and actually ate a piece of flake fish food. A pink one. I'm pretty happy about that. My main tank has two doses of salt in it and the water is starting to get a white haze to it. I used the same salt in the quarantine tank and that water is crysal clear. I'm going to do some water tests on the main tank.

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level? 20 ppm mg/L

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Ph 8.4, KH 300, GH between 25 ppm, chloramines?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Same

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Quick Dip test strips and API drop kit for Ammonia

[*]Water temperature? 68 degrees F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 gallon running about 5 years

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquaclear 110 and Aquatech 30 - 60

Should I worry about the white haze if all my levels are ok? Oh, my husband has started calling Puff "Puff the Magic Goldfish" because she seems to be recovering... Also, the 10 gallon quarantine tank came in a pretty box that had a picture of the decorated tank with THREE large Oranda swimming in it. The instructions told me to "Change 2 gallons of water once a month". No wonder so many people have fish trouble!

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Ok. 3 of my 5 fish in the main tank have spent the day at the surface of the water like they're trying to breath air. Now Gurtie has joined them. I'm concerned. Water parameters are identical to last tests. I have a piano student arriving in 5 minutes so I'm going to do a water change after work (6pm). Could the salt be affecting the amount of oxygen in the water?

Edited by Lorianne1227
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Sorry that I did not get back to you sooner.. Been having my own pet issues that have kinda preoccupied my time!

By now I assume you did the water change on the main tank.. how are the fish now... are they still gulping at the top? I would have probably suggest you do the same thing, a large water change then re-salt just in case something was off.. And checking the water params was also the first thing to do...

Occasionally a fish will have a bad reaction to salt. Rarely but it does happen. It shouldn't happen to ALL the fish though like that. Makes me wonder if the salt in fact is killing off the parasites and making the fish a bit worse before they get better. That happens sometimes with Prazi.. I am unsure if that happens with salt... So, how are they doing now?

I am so glad to here that Puff is doing better. (Hopefully still doing better??). Its funny I had a fish we actually named Puff The Magic Shishy (Shish is our word for fish.. inside joke I suppose in our house)..

You are absolutely right about the box showing 3 orandas and suggesting the wrong water changes. I don't think ANYONE gives out the right information when it comes to goldfish.. Okay sometimes, but not often.. It's no wonder so many people come to this board with issues because people are just uninformed. I was the same way... I just simply didn't know and I trusted people at the pet stores. Now, I double check on everything. Even when I take my pets to the vets I do research as much as I can rather than just assume they know.

I am going to check and make sure you didn't start a new thread when I didn't respond to this one... Hope things are going well...

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I changed out about half of the water (25 gallons) last night, but didn't re-salt. This morning everyone is swimming normally and appears happy. So if my salt concentration was at 0.3%, it should be now 0.15%? Just to make sure I did this right....when I salted, I put in 1 teaspoon for each gallon. 55 teaspoons. Since there are 3 teaspoons in a Tablespoon and 16 Tablespoons in a cup, then one cup of salt should equal 48 teaspoons. 3 x 16 = 48 55 gallons - 48 = 7 So I put in one cup of salt and 7 teaspoons of salt each time I dosed. (I disolved the salt in hot water first.) So, to get the salt back up to 0.3%, I need to add 3 teaspoons per gallon for 25 gallons or 1 Tablespoon per gallon for 25 gallons. But since I didn't re-salt immediately after the water change, I think I'll put in half now and half later.

Salt concern: I'm trying to remember exactly what I did. I think I used aquarium salt and water softener salt in the quarantine tank, but used mostly water softener salt in the main tank because it's 55 gallons and I ran out of aquarium salt. The water softener salt we use says 99.8% pure salt. It also says "Solar Salt" which google told me was evaporated sea water and should contain 99.7% NaCl. I think I may be being overly cautious, but I'm going to re-salt the main tank using aquarium salt and see if the fish still react like they did to the water softener salt.

I'm sorry you've been having pet issues Countrylovah. I hope everything is ok. Puff is eating now, producing beautiful fish poop, swimming normally, and enjoying the solitude of the quarantine tank. Funny you say Shish. :) We call our fish 'Fissies'. My son's first word was fish...actually 'ish', but he was pointing at Susan so we all knew what he meant.

Edited by Lorianne1227
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I wish I could say for sure I knew that Water softener salt was okay or bad and I don't. Without researching I can only go by my instincts which say skip that salt and use plain aquarium salt.. That could certainly be the issue here, because who knows what other additives are in that salt!

Your calculations seemed correct to me, so it doesn't appear that is the problem.. So I would do like you said and resalt with the reg salt.

I am so glad Puff is still doing better! That's such good news! :) I am really really happy to hear it!

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Update: Last night Puff had a three-inch thin white poop following her around for over an hour. So much for her beautiful poop (oxymoron?). Today she is a little floaty with her nose down and her behind up in the air. The only thing I could get her to eat were soaked goldfish flakes - and I was so happy she was eating, but they seem to be causing digestive upset. I did a 25% water change. Is it ok that I keep using the same thread for an ongoing situation? Is it ok to be posting every single detail or am I driving people crazy with my obsessiveness? I worry....

Levels before water change. They were identical after the water change.

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level? < 20 ppm mg/L

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Ph 8.4, KH 300, GH between 25 ppm, chloramines?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Same

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Quick Dip test strips and API drop kit for Ammonia

[*]Water temperature? 70 degrees F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 3 days

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquatech 5-15

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Ok. Here's the update: Puff began with a cyst. I moved her to a quarantine bucket where the cyst burst. I moved her from the bucket to a 10 gallon quarantine tank where I began salting - increasing to a 0.3% solution. Puff started to improve, began eating, pooping, and swimming normally. Yesterday she started getting a little floaty, bloated, and had a very long, thin, white poop that trailed her for over an hour...maybe longer. I did a 25% water change not adding more salt. Later yesterday I noticed Puff was a little more bloated - just starting to pinecone near her gills, scales still smooth over her behind. I was going to 911, but Koko's was off-line last night. I did a 75% water change not adding anymore salt (in case of drospy other sites said salt was bad) and put in a piece of boiled lettuce. This morning Puff was pooping green so I know she ate some lettuce. She's swimming around, occasionally swimming sideways rubbing herself on the bottom of the tank. I tried to get some photos, but she won't hold still. I am going to cut and paste this post in the 911 section just in case there is something I need to be doing immediatly.

Levels before water change. They were identical after the water change.

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level? < 20 ppm mg/L

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Ph 8.4, KH 300, GH between 25 ppm, chloramines?

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)? Same

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Quick Dip test strips and API drop kit for Ammonia

[*]Water temperature? 70 degrees F

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 4 days

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Aquatech 5-15

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