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Slightly Raised Scales


broli929

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HI all, Im pretty new in this forum but have been looking at some of the threads here and seem really interesting. I have been a goldfish keeper for the past 6 years, keeping mostly lionhead orandas and Shubankin. I have a question about one of my orandas.

I have been given this oranda about six months ago. It is about 5 inches big, and a real beauty. The problem is that since I have had it, if you look closely the scales are not smooth as they should but a little raised. As I said its been like this since I got it about 6 months ago. Fearing a parasite or bacterial problem she went through salt dips, anti-parasite treatment and anti bacterial treatment, including garlic dips. All treatments were carried out as baths with a higher-than-usual dose of medication/salt/garlic, for a few minutes for a few days.

She spent about a month in quarantine because of this but as I saw that it did not get worst and behavior is very normal i decided it may join the others in the main tank.

If it may help, it is a female as she has spawned a couple times inside the tank.

Following is a recent video of my tank. Sorry for the crappy quality though :( The oranda in question is the red with whole white fins.

Main tank is about 160liters, and there are currently 5 Orandas. Filtration is a diy multi chamber fed by a 1200lt/hr pump + air pump. Ammonia and nitrites are always zero and nitrates are kept in check, max at 40ppm. Water changes are carried out weekly, changing about 30%. As for diet I feed a selection of high quality sinking pellets together with the occasional daphnia feast and freshly boiled green vegetables. Orandas in this tank seem very happy as they have been spawning every month for the past 4 months!

Thanks a lot.

Mark

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HI all, Im pretty new in this forum but have been looking at some of the threads here and seem really interesting. I have been a goldfish keeper for the past 6 years, keeping mostly lionhead orandas and Shubankin. I have a question about one of my orandas.

I have been given this oranda about six months ago. It is about 5 inches big, and a real beauty. The problem is that since I have had it, if you look closely the scales are not smooth as they should but a little raised. As I said its been like this since I got it about 6 months ago. Fearing a parasite or bacterial problem she went through salt dips, anti-parasite treatment and anti bacterial treatment, including garlic dips. All treatments were carried out as baths with a higher-than-usual dose of medication/salt/garlic, for a few minutes for a few days.

She spent about a month in quarantine because of this but as I saw that it did not get worst and behavior is very normal i decided it may join the others in the main tank.

If it may help, it is a female as she has spawned a couple times inside the tank.

Following is a recent video of my tank. Sorry for the crappy quality though :( The oranda in question is the red with whole white fins.

Main tank is about 160liters, and there are currently 5 Orandas. Filtration is a diy multi chamber fed by a 1200lt/hr pump + air pump. Ammonia and nitrites are always zero and nitrates are kept in check, max at 40ppm. Water changes are carried out weekly, changing about 30%. As for diet I feed a selection of high quality sinking pellets together with the occasional daphnia feast and freshly boiled green vegetables. Orandas in this tank seem very happy as they have been spawning every month for the past 4 months! They sometimes look a bit constipated (as normal with orandas) but never had stability/boiancy issues (only constipation diagnosis was just long poo).

My question is, could these raised scales be some sort of defect, or the result of a previous infection which is now cured? As I stressed I never saw a change in condition of her scales. Behavior she is very active.

Thanks a lot.

Mark

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hi mark.. welcome to koko's :)

we normally associate raised scales to dropsy.. you say you have a video of her? even though you think it's crappy, we'd need to see it.. so please upload it to photobucket or youtube like sites and post a link to it here. whilst you're doing that, i know that you've answered some questions in your post.. but can you please answer them all in one go by filling out the form at the top? all this information will help us to help you..

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I forgot to mention a couple of details regarding this tank, it has been set up about 2 years ago. Temperature is currently 18 degrees celcius but that is the minimum it will ever go (i have a heater in case water drops below the 17 degrees line). Ph is about 8. I use tetra strips for most of the tests, apart from ammonia and nitrates for which I use droplets. I keep a little salt in the tank - 1 table spoon for 80liters of water. Plants inside the tank are mainly anubias and elodea densa and some moss balls.

Also, unfortunately I have had my fair experience with goldfish disease, worst of which by far is dropsy which I know is high contagious and will wipe out a whole tank in a few days. So, I know this is not the usual dropsy which makes the fish very letargic and look like a pineapple in a day, and dies a couple of days later!

Edited by Pondofreshman
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hun... your fish are absolutely stunning :) but unfortunately her condition is not visible to us from that footage.

would you be able to take her out from there and into a bowl with shallow water and take a bird's eye view pic of her as clear as possible? this will help us to determine if she has dropsy and how advanced it is.

in any case, in order to treat her, she will need to be quarantined as the meds required will be just for her.. but let's get the pics happening..

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A problem I can see is that you are very much overstocked.

you need 80liters for the first goldfish and 40 for each of the others. so you would need about 250liter tank.

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The fish has been like this for 6 months since you got it? Has there been any change in the scales?

How long have you been salting the tank?

Agree a clear picture would help.

Thanks a lot for your replies!!

yes, there has been no change in the condition of her scales, since i got it about 6 months ago. I have had that amount of salt for ever hehe.. the other two big orandas have been with me for about 2 years now. To be honest, I dont think they are over stocked. Remember these are small Orandas... when they grow bigger I will obviously upgrade their tank. I will try to take a better picture from above. I have a quarantine tank so medication will not be a problem. I have also used epsom salts for this oranda in a bid to relieve her from any excessive fluids she might have have but still nothing. Has anyone had any experience with dropsy which takes so long? I know dropsy is not the disease but rather a symptom but every time I have seen it, it only took a maximum of a few weeks (more like a few days!) from when the symptom is visible to when the fish dies.

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Hi all,

Managed to take her out of the water for a photo shoot...Unfortunately I dont have the sharpest camera in the world: will try to borrow a friends camera but for now this is the best I managed:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_s9niZJxuUrk/TT_0VnSgTaI/AAAAAAAAACM/K-WodqQ95wQ/s640/2011-01-24%2017.54.18.jpg

Thanks in advance

Mark

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By the way, not sure if this is of relevance but the aquarium is their winter accommodation (about 4-5 months a year). During the summer they play around in an 800liter outdoor tank.

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hi, I managed to get a better picture...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_s9niZJxuUrk/TUBnkMK0-8I/AAAAAAAAACg/fdCN4XL1Irs/s640/raisedscales.JPG

One can see slightly raised scales on your left hand side looking at the fish. It is only on that side that she has the raised scales.

This goldfish also sometimes has long, thin, milky, white poo, as you can see from this photo. Can this white poo be related to breeding/re-absorbing the eggs?

Would appreciate any opinions about her condition.

Many many thanks in advance.

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HI, I have found an article stating that what my goldfish has is too many eggs in her which could lead to serious infection. (not sure if I can post the source article location).

I think this could be the reason why my goldfish has risen scales. I will try with another garlic treatment and then move to a green tea treatment, which is said to help in these cases. I will also be using Epsom salt in case of constipation and/or retained fluids.

All the above medication will be given as 15-30min baths. 2 baths of garlic + Epsom Salt and then 2 baths of green tea, see if that will help my Oranda.

Will keep this thread updated. Any opinions, please post as I really need some help with this, and to confirm if I am doing the right process.

Thanks, Mark

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That is EXACTLY how my ryukin looks! Bloated body, but the scales are hardly raised. I received my shipment of Metro-Meds today and hope they help. I have heard some incredible reviews on how they saved many fish.

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If I may ask, how long has your Ryukin been like this? My Oranda has been like that for as long as I have had at her, about 6 months ago which led me to believe it must be normal for her to be like that. She is also very active, and never had boiancy issues or loss of appetite... the thing that led me to research some more is pure curiosity and the fact that some times she has thin long milky-white poo.

Regarding the medicated food - it is atrociously hard to get hold of that from where I live - do you think if I soak the food in some antibiotics for an hour or so, it would be (almost) the same? I have some anti-bacteria/fungus medicine which comes in a sort of thick liquid and you dose using a pipette. Im sure I can soak the food in a little bit of the solution.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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HI just an update... my goldfish still looks exactly the same. still swims and eats normally and still holds her fin up high. I reduced the number of fish inside the tank maybe it could help and gradually removed the salt from the tank. I am also posting a new params table since its been a while...

[*]Test Results for the Following:

[*]Ammonia Level?0

[*]Nitrite Level?0

[*]Nitrate level?40

[*]Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?PH 7.2

[*]Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)?PH7.2

[*]Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? tetra strips, apart from nitrates which are drops

[*]Water temperature? 18degrees celcius

[*]Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 170liters, been a couple of years running

[*]What is the name and size of the filter(s)? filter diy multi chamber, which is part of the aquarium it self. Pump is a 1200lt/hr. Filter material includes biohome, lava and ceramics.

[*]How often do you change the water and how much? weekly, 20-30%

[*]How many fish in the tank and their size? 4 3-6inches

[*]What kind of water additives or conditioners? tetra aquasafe

[*]What do you feed your fish and how often? selection of top quality sinking pellets from Tetra and Tropica, twice a day, whatever they eat in a couple of minutes. starving day once a week.

[*]Any new fish added to the tank?no

[*]Any medications added to the tank?no

[*]Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?one oranda has fins slightly raised, been like this for months. never seen a difference.

[*]Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?all looks normal

Treatments I have tried so far are dips in garlic and epsom salts for 30 mins for 3 days to confirm no bacterial infection or excess fluid. I tried medicated food. I also passed it through a course of anti internal bacteria and anti internal parasites (in a separate tank for a week).

please tell me if you need an more information.

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Your nitrates are high at 40. Some say don't let them get above 40; some say 20. I like to keep mine under 10.

Water changes of 20-30% weekly are small, which would lead to the higher nitrate level.

Are you still salting your tank?

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no, no salt. I will double water changes, Ie do water changes twice a week. Problem is that I have a bit of nitrates in the tap water. I try to keep it low by keeping plants but being a goldfish tank, its hard to keep a lot of plants hehe. I also use a a type of absorbent once a while which absorbs nitrates (maybe once every month or so. anyway, I am hoping the weather warms up soon so they can go outside. During spring and summer most of my orandas go in an outside pond where nitrates are zero due to algae growth.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Hi, Just to let you know my lionhead oranda does not have raised scales any more. Obviously it had nothing to do with my water quality or stocking levels. All went well after they spawned again about a week ago. She had been injured and a lot of scales were missing from the side (probably she bumped into the wood while spawning - need to address that!!!). Anyway I am assuming two things could had been contributing to my Oranda having raised scales:

1. All of eggs inside of her which needed to clear.

2. Previous injury (possibly during spawning) made her scales look raised. Now that the old scales are gone and have regrown into beautiful scales.

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Sounds like it was probably egg-related. Sometimes when female fish are very full of eggs, they can get raised scales in a localized area. Glad to hear things are back to normal. Your fish are very pretty!

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Hi, Just to let you know my lionhead oranda does not have raised scales any more. Obviously it had nothing to do with my water quality or stocking levels. All went well after they spawned again about a week ago. She had been injured and a lot of scales were missing from the side (probably she bumped into the wood while spawning - need to address that!!!). Anyway I am assuming two things could had been contributing to my Oranda having raised scales:

1. All of eggs inside of her which needed to clear.

2. Previous injury (possibly during spawning) made her scales look raised. Now that the old scales are gone and have regrown into beautiful scales.

I'm about to say, leave her alone, no medication and observe since you said she's been like that over 6 mths. If it's internal bacteria that have caused those raised scales, you'll have full blown dropsy by now. I would preferred to do a PP bath instead of those garlic/ tea baths. It'll knock out any body flukes that maybe hiding beneath the raised scales just to remove any suspicions. Did you get any babies?

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hi, thanks for the posts. Sakura - are those your fish in the banner? They are really nice!!! lionchu, i had stopped medicating. I just had to make sure it was nothing I could help her with, but after 7-8months, as you said, she would have died. All dropsy cases usually take days, maybe weeks not months until the fish succumbs. regarding babies, no, I left everything to nature so all i had a huge caviar buffet party. Unfortunately all my growing tanks are outside and at 5-15 degrees celcius it is still too cold to grow baby orandas... so I did not bother to collect the eggs.

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