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Guest awoods

Unwanted Breeding

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Guest awoods

Hello again. I'm only one of a few on the board NOT wanting to breed my goldfish. I asked before if anyone knew the length of the breeding season. Apparently it's unending, at least for my fish. There are 3, in a 75 gal (recently moved up from 30) at pretty constant 72 degrees; everyone at least 3 years old. I made a divider that fit the tank from the "egg crate" insert for a fluorescent light (in case you ever need a quickie divider for $8.00 at Lowe's). Kept the 2 males (fantail types) separate from the female (Ryukin type) for about 1 week then unleashed everyone Friday night to see how they acted. By midnight there had been some half-hearted chasing but nothing rough so we went to bed. By Sat morning though, she was in worse shape than ever. Tail and fins shredded. She was resting in a corner head down. She now also has an appearance like dropsy with the scales slightly lifted from the contour. Still eating but not much, and not swimming much either. So, I have separated everyone again. I'm using Melafix and some salt in the tank to see if these will help with the dropsy. She has a general swollen appearance, and I am wondering if she could be egg-bound or something. Poop seems almost normal, but does occasionally have some light to white colored material mixed with it; one posting said this could be eggs?!? The courting went on for about a week before I separated them, then all were in the same tank but separated. As well as I can tell, no eggs have been laid... I am wondering if anyone else has had an experience with this prolonged courship, no eggs, which just goes on and on. Some sites say females may be killed by this but not mine if I can help it. She was my first goldie and I want to keep her around. Any suggestions will be appreciated. If there is any way I could put up a picture of her so you could take a look, I could do that also. Thanks.

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Awoods, that pretty much sounds like dropsy to me. There are a few things you can do to give your girl a fighting chance....

Add epsom salt to the tank, 1/8 cup per 5 gl of water.

Raise the temperature in 2 degrees incriments per hour to 84 degrees. and feed her medicated food, something like Medigold from Goldfish connection.com.

Feel free to send a picture of her to me at RAJ-Pecher@msn.com, and I will gladly post it for you! :)

In some stubborn cases, it might be best to separate the females from the males permanently to keep them from stressing out the girl too much....

Co-incidentally, the same treatment will help her along greatly if she is eggbound...

Edited by Ranchugirl

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Guest awoods

Thanks so much for the suggestions Ranchugirl. I'll try the Epsom salt ASAP (doesn't that have magnesium in it?). She did eat a little medicated food today, plus some of her regular pellets. For now I'm using regular aquarium salt. I'll put in a heater now as I have an extra one on hand, to raise the temp. Hopefully this won't bother the males, since everyone is in the same conditions, with the divider. Thanks again, I'll let you know how things turn out. I enjoy your site, wish I was here seeking advice in better circumstances.

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Awoods, just make sure you have some extra airation going with the higher temperatures. Warmer water holds less oxygen... For dropsy epsom salt is the only salt, get the other salt out with water changes...

Good luck with your girl! :hi

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I have used regular salt to treat dropsy with good success. I am actually treating a case of it right now, and in less than 24 hours the eyes have "de-buldged" and the scales are starting to go down. Personally I wouldn't bother with epsom salts, but that's "one of those topics" in fishkeeping, and I don't have any interest in starting that in this thread. :D

Awoods, are the scales sticking up all over the place or just in a small patch? Sometimes all the pushing around damages the female and she gets small areas of infection that cause the scales to lift. This situation is different than dropsy.

Good luck!

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Guest awoods

Thanks again for the replies, Ranchugirl and Happy Goldfish! I've added the heater and I got the Epsom salts today after work (my work is interfering with my fishkeeping!). Should I do a water change before adding the Epsom salts, to get out some of the other salt? I was putting in 2 Tablespoons per 10 gal (as directed by the guy at the local fish shop.) My husband already did a 25% water change this AM anyway, so do you think that's enough?

In answer to Happy Goldfish, the scales were standing out pretty much all over. I think she may look a little better today, but she does still have a "swollen" look. There was a small patch (no more than 2mm) at the base of her tail that looked a little like fungus yesterday, so I also added a product Aquari-sol, which was recommended by another fishy friend who's used it for fungus. That disappeared by the end of the day so I'm not sure what it was.

Also, do you guys think I should just leave off the Melafix, or continue both that and the salt?

I just heard from my husband that the digital camera died so I won't be able to get any pictures to you anytime soon. If she survives and thrives again, I'll send some of her when she's her beautiful self again! Thanks again, Awoods.

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Guest awoods

PS -

Forgot to ask, How often should I add the Epsom salt? Weekly or one-time dose?

Also you didn't comment whether the increased temp or added Epsom salt would adversly affect the males. No reason why it should but thought I'd ask. I'm sort of mad at them right now anyway! :angry: (Just kidding - they're only fish!)

I have an extra tank but it's just a 10 gallon and is not set up, so it wouldn't be cycled. We thought about removing her to that one for treatment but we decided that putting a fish her size in a 10-gallon uncycled tank would probably do more harm than good.

Thanks again, I look forward to your advice.

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Awoods, the epsom salt is being added only one time, and when you do a waterchange of say, 10 gl, you only add more salt for those 10 gl, not more.

I never heard of the salt effecting the males in an negative way, though..

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Guest awoods

My girl is still hanging in there. She actually ate a little tonight (first in 2 days). After talking to the guy at my favorite local fish store, I decided to go ahead and move her to the 10 gallon tank. I put in some gravel and half-filled with water from the established tank (after a water change), then finished with fresh water and dechlorinated with StressCoat. Temp is now at 82 degrees.

He recommended a product called Binox, which contains an antibiotic, as his best choice for dropsy when salt isn't working. I will keep you posted with her progress. If she survives, do some of the scales fall off after dropsy resolves? Also, do you think I should add some salt with the Binox, or just use the antibiotic alone?

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Never heard of Binox, let us know how it works!! The scales go back to their normal self. Can't help you with your salt question though, since I don't know what Binox is. Does it say anything on the bottle/box if salt would be negative?

Here are two phenomenal pictures of before and after dropsy treatment. I always like to look at those two, just to be assured that there are treatments that are effective and working....

http://puregold.aquaria.net/pg/disease/dropsy.html

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Guest awoods

An update but not good news. Cartman died this morning and we gave her a decent burial in the garden this morning. :( For future information, Binox contains sodium chloride (doesn't say how much but it's listed as the first ingredient) and nitrofurazone. The before and after pictures you posted an encouraging, wish I could produce a set. Thanks again for your advice, I will keep reading on the site so that maybe nothing like this will happen again. We're just going to stick with our 2 males for now.

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Guest Flipper

This has happened to my moma fish many times this season. The poor thing gets badly beaten up by the males in the pond and her tail fins shred, her scales lift, and she gets chunks taken out of her sometimes. Risking getting a bashing from othr writers, Ive never had to put stuff in the pond to fix her up. The most Ive done is put her in the koi pond for a bit of R & R. Within a couple of days she is happily swimming around and eating properly and showing signs of healing naturally. Within a week she is back to normal. The way I see it (as I duck for cover) fish have been courting like this for many thousands of years and we havent always been around to chuck salt and stuff in the water. My personal opinion, and now Im really ducking under rocks, is that I think we often do more harm to them by chucking all that stuff in the pond and trying to make a "perfect" water environment for them. Mine are thriving. We have more baby fry swimming around than we can possibly count, they are all looking healthy happy and active. Ive never tested the water and Ive only lost 3 fish which was due to water levels dropping when the pump got clogged and the cat. Momma gets beaten regularly, but she heals quickly and her babies are happy and growing bigger every day.

Just my opinion. However I will add that if there was sign of disease in the pond I would not hesitate in providing medication. I just believe nature is a wonderful thing and we should relax a liitle and let it do its job.

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