Dr.house's Mouth Is Locked Shut!

[Prejudiced]

BDG was soft in my experience, mushy like rotting flesh. Although from what others have said I assumed BGD and gave my imput, Its hard to tell without seeing it yourself.

Do they look like gill lice/maggots? (Ergasalis)

The best treatment is to use potassium permanganate on the whole tank at a ration of 2 mg per litre for gill lice. However gill lice really doesn't explain the swelling. Swollen gill covers however, are a sign that Flukes are chronically present. Yet you have done a scraping and have no sign of flukes.

I'm quite confused here, it's nothing I've ever personally come across with my fish.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

ball in sick/ swollen gill is about 1-2mm yes indeed. there are 2. both on the left/swollen one. right one seems totally normal (exactly the same as healthy ryukin)

yes, fish with swollen left gill also cannot open her mouth well anymore - like her mouth is stuck shut. she moves it slightly (without opening it) to breathe.

rest of her body is perfect, no sign of disease - no extra slime coat. no shredded fins. no redness... nothing

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Just want to say that I am TOTALLY new at doing scrapes. She didn't have much slime either. So I cannot say for sure that she is fluke free. Would flukes only swell up one gill?

No the spots are perfectly round. Not like the picture of the maggots.

Also want to mention that when she got real sick last year and had dropsy - BOTH her gills were totally swollen open. I used the 'tank buddies' dissolving tabs (as that is the only think I had at the time) and they were perfect until a few weeks ago when the one swelled up

[mikroll]

it he little balls are "hard" then you are describing gill maggot egg. they also occur in mouth and on skin of fish. later when they hatch they will look like moving worms.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

oh yes! hard like an egg! what do I do?!?!

can she have only 2? is that possible?

[Prejudiced]

it he little balls are "hard" then you are describing gill maggot egg. they also occur in mouth and on skin of fish. later when they hatch they will look like moving worms.

Captian, Are the two dot's close together? Eggs are resistant to treatment.

Edit: Although I think you may have hit the nail on the head, gill lice don't cause swollen gills though, especially if there's only two eggs.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Amber

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

yes they are in the same 'area' on the top of her left gill filament area. they are bright white when I shine a light on them.

would they swell the gill? where do they come from? no sign of maggots or any damage on her gills.

thanx soooo much for helping Dr.House and I guys!!!

Edit - yup Amber. for sure only 2.... very strange... otherwise it is a growth of some kind?

[mikroll]

there are hundreds of kinds and shapes but they are all artropodi, and are destroyed by treating for anchor worm, so neguvon (triclorfon),or PP, or formilin dips. and there is other stuff too dimilin , etc I think. but you have so time to get someone to take a look and verify before .

[Sakura]

Sorry to hear the issues are getting worse Federica. Do the white balls look like the ones in these photos?

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/81974-some-one-help-me-help-me-pleaseeeeeeee/page__p__918953__fromsearch__1#entry918953

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

I have only ever treated my fish with salt up to 0.4% and Prazi. So this could definitely be a possibility. Where are the adults?

I will try and get my friend to check on her tomorrow. It is quite strange that there are only 2

She is bottom sitting and looks generally unhappy now

Hi Sakura! I am looking at the same post! They could indeed look like those balls - especially the hard and shiny white, perfect ball shape. It could also explain why she only has 2??? But I don't think the pearlies had swollen gills from them?

[Prejudiced]

They tend to lay eggs in pairs near each other. I feel stupid for not thinking of that before. I'm still concerned about that swollen gill though, especially if it is hampering her breathing and eating, because that's not a normal gill lice response.

In egg form there resistant to most treatment, but if you have eggs in gills you have breeding adults somewhere. If I recall right the female is parasitic while the male is not (but is present in the tank) (I'm not 100% on that, mikroll seems to know more on this one then I do so I'm sure he can answer )

But you have your goldfish friend over tomorrow, so at least you can get this checked out and confirmed.

I'm still concerned about that swollen gill though. Perhaps having eggs in the gill has aggravated it again?

[Sakura]

I have only ever treated my fish with salt up to 0.4% and Prazi. So this could definitely be a possibility. Where are the adults?

I will try and get my friend to check on her tomorrow. It is quite strange that there are only 2

She is bottom sitting and looks generally unhappy now

Hi Sakura! I am looking at the same post! They could indeed look like those balls - especially the hard and shiny white, perfect ball shape. It could also explain why she only has 2??? But I don't think the pearlies had swollen gills from them?

Well with pearlies it would be hard to tell because their gills always stick out more than other fish anyways because of their super round body shape..

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

I do hope it is the eggs and not the funky thing HNLim had!!!

Amber - do the eggs look like the pictures of HNLim? When you say they are laid by each other that totally describes it. So it is possible there are only 2 eggs? She is a very sensitive little fish - so it could be a reaction to the eggs - they look pretty large in her small gills. Her body is about as long as my pinky.

So for now I just dose salt? No antibiotic treatment?

[Prejudiced]

Assuming gill lice and hopefully not the nasty things HNLim had, they can be treated with formalin and malachite green, any of the treatments mikroll said (neguvon (triclorfon),or PP, or formilin dips dimilin) and there are some other ways. I don't know the most effective way sorry ): Hopefully someone can point you to the best treatment.

I'm hoping it's not henneguya like HNLim. That looked nasty.

Edit- I'm not sure how similar they look, I've only rarely dealt with gill lice and when I have I didn't get a good look at the eggs.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Amber

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Yes those certainly look nasty!

I think if it were those she would have died long ago? I mean - she would probably have had those when I bought her - and that was a year and a half ago.

I do have formalin. Is that safe? PP I am afraid to use as it really requires very careful measuring and can be very stressful.

Also need to keep in mind that she has issues breathing - so something which doesn't kill the oxygen in the water too much.

Could those maggot things be in her mouth?

[Prejudiced]

The maggots can get on the gill arches and into the mouths, so it's possible.

I don't know about dosing formalin or how it affects the oxygen levels in the water, but I'm sure someone here does. I know that baths of Trichlorfon and dimilin are also effective treatments. Dimilin may be used as a bath for 48 hours, at 0.01 mg/L and repeated up to three times, and Trichlorfon can be used as a bath for one hour, at 0.25-1.0 ppm, repeated up to three times. (edit- I don't know how they affect oxygen either sorry ): )

It's 6.40am here, I've got to run to work in 20 mins, sorry I can't be more help! I'll check back on lunch break ):

Good luck! I hope everything turns out today! Good wishes towards Dr. House

Edited December 26, 2010 by Amber

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Thanx so much for all the help Amber!

If I then treat her in a hospital tank for 3 times (I will look to see what other meds I find) do I also have to treat her main tank? She is in with one fish in there - shows no signs of irritated gills.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

Another question. Would the maggots/ eggs come up on a body scrape? Or would you have to look into the gills?

Could they be transmitted by the syphon?

[mikroll]

those are certainly excellent questions that i too would like to know .

i am currently fighting learnaea another artropod which attacks our fish. and only search for flukes with microscope.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

I am just really wondering where it came from if it is those maggots gross things!

[mikroll]

do you feed live food grown outdoors? new plants or fish introduced? and yes is a grand mystere!!

but it is not yet confirmed wha tis problem with your fish. only speculations so far. that means what you are doing is ok even if not totaly the correct solution as you do not konw exactly what is cause. that make sense?

tomorrow you have plenty time to prepare for next steps calmly. Obtain or locate hydrogen peroxide 3%, salt, and anchor worm treatment such as sold in pet supply or farm store or farmicia . formalin , neugovon.

Oh and how you choose to treat is your choice. I have tried all those ways but like dips and baths best. That is because the treatment is outside of main tank so does not screw up with tank balance and is contolled. Also the strong dips are quick and use less total medicine chemical.

Edited December 26, 2010 by mikroll

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

do you feed live food grown outdoors? new plants or fish introduced? and yes is a grand mystere!!

nope nope... No idea where this crap comes from!!!

Yes tomorrow I will call around both my friend and the vet who QTs all the petstore fish (they are the general importers) and see what they say. I will also ask my friend in Holland and let him know about the white spots.

I have hydrogen peroxide 3% (what would I use this for), I also have salt and Dr.House is in with 0.2% right now. I also have the formalin (or could get anything else if it is safer)

I will do a longer and less concentrated bath for sure - she is very small and sensitive.

Should I start her on antibiotic food at this point or not?

[caitie]

I'm so sorry this is getting worse hun. I have zero experience if this does turn out to be gill maggots. I can however tell you to be very very cautious about using formalin. It is extremely strong and Dr House is very sensitive. I'm not sure where he would have picked up something like this though.

Hang in there Dr House everyone is trying to help.

[mikroll]

antibiotics is to combat infection , bacteria etc. she does not have any infection then why treat yet? Mouth still is closed.

peroxide is used (like for people) to disinfect and also knocks the S... out of parasites. but also is handy for wounds like iodine or mericurome.

formalin also can destroy many things.

a good general treatment for baths disinfect is something like Desimoor by Aquarium munster or the like.I use it for QT dips as is gentle.

[Captain Findus Goldfish]

thanx for the heads up Edith I am indeed looking for the mildest way to fix this!

Have you checked the thread of HNLim? A post Imo made mentioned another 10000 reasons for the white ball possibility. I wish she was here for advice.

Thanx Mikroll, I will take a look at the AquariumMunster website.

So for now just salt.